UKC

Anyone know about UPVC front doors?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Profanisaurus Rex 21 Jan 2010
Right, trusting UKC again, as web searches are not giving the info I need...

I've just had a new front door fitted, and am unhappy about the locking system.

If I pull the door shut and turn the handle upwards, it is still openable from the outside. The only way to prevent anyone just walking in, is to lock the door from the inside, with the key. Now clearly this may cause problems if I need to get out quickly in case of fire, for example.

My old door had what I think was a much better system - once the door handle was turned upwards, be it from inside or outside the flat, the outer handle was disengaged so from outside, one could only open the door with the key. The interior handle remained active, so anyone inside the flat needed only to turn the handle to open the door.

The company has said that this is the new design, and has been standard for about 7 or 8 years, and that the 5-point locking system can only be engaged with the key.

The firm has been around for many years, and are registered with all the relevant bodies, as well as the local council's good trader scheme, so I'm not instantly inclined towards suspecting corner-cutting, but it seems a very ill-conceived system.

Can anyone who either works in this field, or has had a new door fitted recently please confirm whether this is standard?

Thanks in advance!
 marie 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:
> Right, trusting UKC again, as web searches are not giving the info I need...
>
> I've just had a new front door fitted, and am unhappy about the locking system.
>
> If I pull the door shut and turn the handle upwards, it is still openable from the outside. The only way to prevent anyone just walking in, is to lock the door from the inside, with the key. Now clearly this may cause problems if I need to get out quickly in case of fire, for example.
>
> My old door had what I think was a much better system - once the door handle was turned upwards, be it from inside or outside the flat, the outer handle was disengaged so from outside, one could only open the door with the key. The interior handle remained active, so anyone inside the flat needed only to turn the handle to open the door.
>
> The company has said that this is the new design, and has been standard for about 7 or 8 years, and that the 5-point locking system can only be engaged with the key.
>
> The firm has been around for many years, and are registered with all the relevant bodies, as well as the local council's good trader scheme, so I'm not instantly inclined towards suspecting corner-cutting, but it seems a very ill-conceived system.
>
> Can anyone who either works in this field, or has had a new door fitted recently please confirm whether this is standard?
>
> Thanks in advance!

I dunno about standard now, but your new one is a standard uPVC front door with a locking mechanism from when I was in the business. It was standard then, and I suspect still is now.

 Enty 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

Sounds to me like you've been given a standard one and your old one was something special.

Enty
 dread-i 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:
On my front door, if I go out and shut the door behind me it locks as you would expect. On my back door, if I go out the door doesn't lock if you shut it. That is a feature, so that if you're in the back garden, you don't lock yourself out. You can, of course, lock it with a key as usual.

It sounds like you have a back door lock on your front door. That would explain why they say the lock has been around for years.
 marie 21 Jan 2010
In reply to dread-i: Nah, it's a standard front door lock too.
 Wallm0nkey 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood: I'm not sure whether it's standard but it does seem like the majority are like that with back doors at least. Most of the front doors I've seen to be opened with a key from the outside though. Still has the 5 point locking system which requires the handle to be pushed upwards. I would of thought the opposite that some sort of automatic catch was the standard for a front door.
 philmorris 21 Jan 2010
I fitted a new front door a year or so ago using this same system. My only advice is to have a key handy when it's locked, but not in the lock. It's also very easy to lock yourself out if you don't carry your key all the time.
 3leggeddog 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

Next time you are sat on the throne, browsing the screwfix catalogue, look at the "euro cylinder" locks. These are available with a thumb key - key one side, little dooferie on the other. These cylinders are easy to replace and will solve your problems. Lock people out but not in.

I would post a link but I don't want to starve you of lifes little pleasure (browsing screwix)
 dread-i 21 Jan 2010
In reply to marie:
You must have worked for a cheapo company


I have type 3 on the front and type 1 on the back.


---8<------ snip -----8<--
There are 3 different types of locking mechanisms, these are:

1) Lever/Lever Operation (Most common)
Lift the handle to engage the locking points and then turn the key once to lock. To unlock turn the key once, and push down the handle.
2) Key Operation
Turn the key 2 or more times to fully engage all of the locking points. To unlock turn the key 2 or more times to release the locking points. If you require a key operated mechanism call 01924 360444.
3) Lever/Pad Operation
When closed the door is auto- locked on the latch and cannot be opened from the outside without a key

http://www.multipointlocks.co.uk/
Profanisaurus Rex 21 Jan 2010
In reply to all:

Thank you! Reassuring to know that it isn't shady practice, but as Enty and dread-i suggest, there may be better-deigned locks out there. Will look into an aftermarket replacement, as I really don't like the idea of either leaving the key near (or in) the front door at night, or scrabbling around trying to find it in the dark/smoke/panic/half asleep...


Marie, you worked in double glazing??? And yet you seem, so ... honest ... ;oP
Profanisaurus Rex 21 Jan 2010
In reply to dread-i:

Aha! Thank you, Sir!
Counc 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

Basically they have given you a soild bar locking system, the old locking system you had, had a split bar system, which then latched on the key (well should of). They are not trying to "fob" you off they are right what they are saying, basically it was a system introduced as old people were getting locked out of their houses all the time so they came up with this idea.

So yes it is standard, but so is the old system you had.

If you want to know anything else give me a shout.

I hope this answers your question.
Counc 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Counc: Send me your address on e-maio and i will send you up some split bars.
 The Lemming 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

I too have a plastic front door, which my dad made and I helped him fit. At night I lock the door and leave the key in just in case I have to get out in a hurry.

May I ask why people think it is bad to leave the key in the door?
 Blue Straggler 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

I just got a new uPVC front door. Mine has the style of locking mechanism that your old one had. I like it - you can't get locked out, and it takes only a second to engage the locking mechanism from the inside.
A friend of mine has the type that you now have, I'd never seen such a thing before (a modern(ish) front door that needed to be unlocked with a key when locked from the inside), and was as flabbergasted as you
Profanisaurus Rex 21 Jan 2010
In reply to The Lemming:
> (In reply to Masood)
>
> May I ask why people think it is bad to leave the key in the door?

I worry that people may be able to hook the key out via the letter flap. Maybe overly paranoid, but still...

Profanisaurus Rex 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Counc:

Certainly answers the question, thank you! Are split bars easy to fit? I'm a competent DIYer, but not a locksmith. Also, would it be better to have the lock changed to a type 3 or Euro lock as detailed above?

Cheers!
Bogsy 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

What you had is called a "Snib lock" and is still available but you have to request it. Most door salespeeps & fitters don't know about it & the usual lock fitted is known as a Euro lock, which has that facility as an extra too.
You could get it retro fitted at a lump of a cost, although as usual a 2 edged sword cuts both ways and if you shut the door behind you & leave the key inside, you're buggered!
KevinD 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

upvc doors do seem to have locks ranging from the ok to the positively diabolical from the ones i have used over the years.
All the ones i have had did auto lock though even without the handle being shifted.
You can get them replaced although not sure on cost, last houseshare i was in the landlord had to get the lock replaced due to the risk around needing the key to get out in case of fire.
 marie 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:
> (In reply to all)
>
> Marie, you worked in double glazing??? And yet you seem, so ... honest ... ;oP

I had to be, I trade rep for 1 company and was then head of trade sales at 2 companies. (They knew what they wanted, not like a domestic sale...)

So, I've worked for 3 companies, and have lived at 2 houses that have had uPVC front doors by other companies (they were there when I moved in) and all have been the same as the one you now have.

This is Leic though, not the Bronx...
 gethin_allen 21 Jan 2010
In reply to dread-i:
the lock the OP has is the standard type as in it comes as standard not it's the standard that they have to reach/strive to.
The simple answer is as someone above suggested that is to buy a lock with a thumb turn on the inside. If you have already distributed/made many copies of the key for the current barrel if you get the same make/model barrel you can lift out the levers and swap them with your old lock so that the old keys work in the new barrel (or just take them to a locksmiths).
I thought the the "type 3-pad/lever operation" is usually used for fire doors.
Counc 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Masood:

Honestly...? Its as hard as changing 2 screws. But...i need you to do me a favour when you get home take off the handle set you have and see how many holes there are (either two or three) because there are two different sets of "PAD" handle sets, both with fit straight on, but one is an offset system whereas one is an engaging system (don't be baffled by terminology). One system I can send you the bars in the post (the offset system), the other will cost you about £40 (the engaging system).

You can change to a Euro system etc...but they are not cheap, and also the lock systems are different ie some have shoot bolts, that you may not have the keeps for, it just gets messy. If you get a firm you would be lucky to get change from about £120 - £150.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...