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I have decided that I would like to try my hand at cave diving... Every one I have spoken to thinks im bloody mad, which is probably true! ļ
Has any one got any advice as to the best way to get into/experience cave diving other than simply finding some gear and jumping into a hole
Thanks
In reply to zakmacro: A couple of questions. Do you cave? Do you dive? If so, your best bet is to contactthe CDG http://www.cavedivinggroup.org.uk/ or post here http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?board=12.0
Good luck from some one who doesn't "cave dive" but does use air on longer sumps!
Good luck from some one who doesn't "cave dive" but does use air on longer sumps!
In reply to Oceanrower:
I have been caving in yorkshire a few times, and have Scuba dived with the Cambridge dive centre but that’s about it so far
I have been caving in yorkshire a few times, and have Scuba dived with the Cambridge dive centre but that’s about it so far
In reply to zakmacro:
Main advice: don't
If you must then get qualified:
http://www.cavedivinggroup.org.uk/index.php
My experience is only in the gin-clear water of the Florida springs; I haven't dived UK sumps.
Memorably, my only ever serious gear failure in approaching 1000 dives happened on a cave dive.
Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
Main advice: don't
If you must then get qualified:
http://www.cavedivinggroup.org.uk/index.php
My experience is only in the gin-clear water of the Florida springs; I haven't dived UK sumps.
Memorably, my only ever serious gear failure in approaching 1000 dives happened on a cave dive.
Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
In reply to zakmacro: As I said, I'm not a cave diver but I have quite a lot of diving experience and have caved for about 4 years. In my opinion ( and it is just an opinion!) I would recommend trying the CDG. I suspect that hey tmay want more caving experince than you have. I have lifted this from their website.
CDG cave diver education has evolved over the past 50 years to equip experienced cavers to explore flooded cave passage. It is not formulated to train open water divers in sump diving techniques. The CDG consider it unreasonably dangerous to attempt sump diving without a good understanding of the nature and possible configuration of cave passages, which in the U.K. are small, complex and tortuous.
Whereabouts are you based?
CDG cave diver education has evolved over the past 50 years to equip experienced cavers to explore flooded cave passage. It is not formulated to train open water divers in sump diving techniques. The CDG consider it unreasonably dangerous to attempt sump diving without a good understanding of the nature and possible configuration of cave passages, which in the U.K. are small, complex and tortuous.
Whereabouts are you based?
In reply to zakmacro:First of all you will need a lot of caving experience(which I imagine in Bury St Edmunds is`nt going to be easy to get)like wise with diving.As you will know cave diving is statistically very dangerous so think hard about it.
In reply to zakmacro:
ive caved and ive dived, and sometimes contemplate cave diving but im simply chicken.
but go for it i say. a great goal to set yourself.
ive worked with rescue divers for years, many of whom cave dive (some of whom have rescued cavers and cave divers) and they are a different breed. you think cavers are a bunch of weirdos? cave divers are that, squared.
if youre going to get into cave diving, consider getting your rescue diver qualifications (maybe you have to as part of it, i dont know) as rescue divers can earn good cash if they land a job.
good luck, go hard, stay safe.
ive caved and ive dived, and sometimes contemplate cave diving but im simply chicken.
but go for it i say. a great goal to set yourself.
ive worked with rescue divers for years, many of whom cave dive (some of whom have rescued cavers and cave divers) and they are a different breed. you think cavers are a bunch of weirdos? cave divers are that, squared.
if youre going to get into cave diving, consider getting your rescue diver qualifications (maybe you have to as part of it, i dont know) as rescue divers can earn good cash if they land a job.
good luck, go hard, stay safe.
In reply to zakmacro:
Look up 'DIR' in the context of diving. Should be obvious results on google.
Back when I was considering having a shot a cave diving I was looking at these guys. They have a very holistic approach to diving and especially cave diving. If you are feeling flush you can do one or two of their courses in Florida or Mexico.
Even if you don't do a course, do look into their methods/principled etc. Especially look for the videos on the Wakula Springs Project - awesome caves, awesome kit and awesome dives!
Look up 'DIR' in the context of diving. Should be obvious results on google.
Back when I was considering having a shot a cave diving I was looking at these guys. They have a very holistic approach to diving and especially cave diving. If you are feeling flush you can do one or two of their courses in Florida or Mexico.
Even if you don't do a course, do look into their methods/principled etc. Especially look for the videos on the Wakula Springs Project - awesome caves, awesome kit and awesome dives!
In reply to zakmacro:
From the little I know that is approximately equal to buying a parachute and giving base jumping a go. You might survive you might not depends on how lucky you are.
> Has any one got any advice as to the best way to get into/experience cave diving other than simply finding some gear and jumping into a hole
>From the little I know that is approximately equal to buying a parachute and giving base jumping a go. You might survive you might not depends on how lucky you are.
In reply to JJL:
>Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
He was/is a brave/lucky boy! good read
> (In reply to zakmacro)
>Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
He was/is a brave/lucky boy! good read
For the advice every one! I live in bury st Edmunds, Suffolk- one of the flattest most boring places in the world!!! So spots for diving, and spots for caving are few and far between to say the least! With in the next few years I hope to move some where slightly further up north so climbing, kayaking and hill walking wont take a small military operation to organise! So caving diving wont happen anytime soon I don’t think!
Until then I guess I will just keep researching courses, centres, places and anything else that pops up
Thanks again
Until then I guess I will just keep researching courses, centres, places and anything else that pops up
Thanks again
In reply to zakmacro:
Cave dive group best bet, fantastic adrenalin rush when diving but on negative side had a few near death experiences so only for the mad
Cave dive group best bet, fantastic adrenalin rush when diving but on negative side had a few near death experiences so only for the mad
In reply to zakmacro: Before you try it try to get the Book THE DARKNESS BECKONS I think by Martin Farr..and you may think again ...awesome ..
In reply to zakmacro: cave diving is very high risk, I'v met people who used to cave dive and gave it up after losing mates. From the diving angle I would have thought you would want to build up a LOT of scuba experience (perfect buoyancy control, diving in overhead environments, low visibility navigation among others) before considering getting involved with cave diving. It doesnt sound as if you have that much scuba experience yet, I would have it in mind as a long term goal but build up your scuba skills first till you have it absolutely slick, then go and talk to some pro's. Cavern diving is a different kettle of fish though, in cavern diving you can always see a daylight exit, really nice cavern diving in malta and corfu though still not for beginners. I see PADI run specific cavern diving courses, sounds like a good way of trying it out...
In reply to pebbles:
Seconded.
Any overhead environment (so unable to make a direct ascent to the surface if things go wrong) requires advanced training and equipment. Cave diving is possibly one of the highest risk types of diving and before anyone would consider taking you into a cave you would be expected to have considerable diving experience.
Remember unlike "dry" caving if you have a problem you only have a limted amount of time (your air supply) to get things sorted and get back to the surface. So getting stuck or lost could be catastrophic. Also unlike diving a reef any equipment malfunction has to be dealt with at the time and not by simply bolting back to the surface.
Have you done any dry caving? Think of all that fine mud/silt and how one careless fin kick will reduce visability to zero. Cave divers always use a line so they can retrace their route back, but unless kept taught will wrap it self round arms/legs/kit creating a potential deathtrap with the diver tangled in their own safety line.
Another factor to consider is that you have to follow the profile of the cave system, which almost inevitably means bad dive profiles so an increased risk of Decompression Illness. Also this means your dive depth and duration will be dictated by the cave, so it is likely that you will find yourself entering deco and having to complete mandatory stops to off gass excess nitrogen on ascent.
> (In reply to zakmacro) cave diving is very high risk, ............. From the diving angle I would have thought you would want to build up a LOT of scuba experience (perfect buoyancy control, diving in overhead environments, low visibility navigation among others) before considering getting involved with cave diving. ..............
Seconded.
Any overhead environment (so unable to make a direct ascent to the surface if things go wrong) requires advanced training and equipment. Cave diving is possibly one of the highest risk types of diving and before anyone would consider taking you into a cave you would be expected to have considerable diving experience.
Remember unlike "dry" caving if you have a problem you only have a limted amount of time (your air supply) to get things sorted and get back to the surface. So getting stuck or lost could be catastrophic. Also unlike diving a reef any equipment malfunction has to be dealt with at the time and not by simply bolting back to the surface.
Have you done any dry caving? Think of all that fine mud/silt and how one careless fin kick will reduce visability to zero. Cave divers always use a line so they can retrace their route back, but unless kept taught will wrap it self round arms/legs/kit creating a potential deathtrap with the diver tangled in their own safety line.
Another factor to consider is that you have to follow the profile of the cave system, which almost inevitably means bad dive profiles so an increased risk of Decompression Illness. Also this means your dive depth and duration will be dictated by the cave, so it is likely that you will find yourself entering deco and having to complete mandatory stops to off gass excess nitrogen on ascent.
In reply to zakmacro: I used to cave a lot, mainly in the Dales and did carry gear several times for cave divers. They were/are all first and foremost keen cavers who wanted to explore new/unpassed sumps to discover what lay beyond. There were also those who would 'tourist trip' known sumps to see what was beyond. I never in almost 30 years came across a diver (as opposed to a caver) who wanted to take up cave diving. In America it's often the other way round but their sumps are often much more open and friendly with good viz and warm water. Open water diving just isn't comparable in methods and in motivations. Ignore people on here who urge you to go for it - it's not a forgiving sport at all. You should be an experienced caver before even considering cave diving. The advice about Farr's book is good - it certainly put me off trying!
In reply to Karl Lunt:
This has definitely changed in the last 10 years or so, there are now quite a few cave divers who are active in the Dales that have come from a diving background rather than a caving background.
To the OP, unless you've got rich parents I suggest getting a well paid job!
> (In reply to zakmacro) I never in almost 30 years came across a diver (as opposed to a caver) who wanted to take up cave diving.
This has definitely changed in the last 10 years or so, there are now quite a few cave divers who are active in the Dales that have come from a diving background rather than a caving background.
To the OP, unless you've got rich parents I suggest getting a well paid job!
In reply to zakmacro:
Martyn Farr's book - I read it years ago and felt a bit numb afterwards. You see, there's this notional line of risk - on the side that I'm stood on there's some soloing within reason, there's winter climbing, solo winter climbing and what have you. Just over the line, for me, there's the himalayan stuff. On the other side of the line, so far away it's over the horizon, is cave diving.
I got involved once in some zero visibility diving with lots of mud. I had no idea which way was up. Zero means zero. You can only see a torch when you shine it straight at your eyes pressed against the glass. You can't see your hand at all, let alone a watch. A colleague was working beside me and I managed to swipe him with a fin. All he knew was that some big rubbery thing had just had a go at him and so he lashed out with a hacksaw. Fortunately, he didn't connect with anything. When my time was up, people on the surface pulled on a rope and up I came like a drunk lying over a fence.
And you want to do that in a hole in the ground? Imagine crawling under a car when it's parked in a pond. And another one, and another, and another, all with a big lid on top. No Thank You!
Martyn Farr's book - I read it years ago and felt a bit numb afterwards. You see, there's this notional line of risk - on the side that I'm stood on there's some soloing within reason, there's winter climbing, solo winter climbing and what have you. Just over the line, for me, there's the himalayan stuff. On the other side of the line, so far away it's over the horizon, is cave diving.
I got involved once in some zero visibility diving with lots of mud. I had no idea which way was up. Zero means zero. You can only see a torch when you shine it straight at your eyes pressed against the glass. You can't see your hand at all, let alone a watch. A colleague was working beside me and I managed to swipe him with a fin. All he knew was that some big rubbery thing had just had a go at him and so he lashed out with a hacksaw. Fortunately, he didn't connect with anything. When my time was up, people on the surface pulled on a rope and up I came like a drunk lying over a fence.
And you want to do that in a hole in the ground? Imagine crawling under a car when it's parked in a pond. And another one, and another, and another, all with a big lid on top. No Thank You!
In reply to Karl Lunt:
According to Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Darkness-Beckons-History-Development-Yourself/dp/09... it's a Teach Yourself book - eek!
> (In reply to zakmacro) The advice about Farr's book is good - it certainly put me off trying!
According to Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Darkness-Beckons-History-Development-Yourself/dp/09... it's a Teach Yourself book - eek!
In reply to zakmacro: Ger yourself down Swildens in the Mendips to get an idea. Sump 1 is easy free dive, and I think its sump 5 that you can also free dive, but scared the life out of me and I wimped out - sticking your head in a silt filled hole, pushing the silt to the side, to hopefully wriggle thru is not for me!!
In reply to Winterbotty: Sump two is also an easy free dive and three can be done by experienced sump divers (but I must admit, I prefer a pony bottle for that one). FYI you can get to Swildons Nine without air.
In reply to zakmacro:
As said above, the Cave Diving Group is a good start. You need to think of the sport as caving underwater, rather than diving underground; the CDG will likely want you to have considerable caving experience before you'll be taken on
People seem to imply Cave diving is hazardous - it obviously is, but they also say the accident rate is poor - I'm not sure that is the case anymore. The efforts of the CDG to improve techniques and training have been effective I believe in making the sport safer.
Good luck
As said above, the Cave Diving Group is a good start. You need to think of the sport as caving underwater, rather than diving underground; the CDG will likely want you to have considerable caving experience before you'll be taken on
People seem to imply Cave diving is hazardous - it obviously is, but they also say the accident rate is poor - I'm not sure that is the case anymore. The efforts of the CDG to improve techniques and training have been effective I believe in making the sport safer.
Good luck
In reply to zakmacro: Why not try cavern diving first?? I've done quite a lot of caving and a bit of diving, so booked up with this guy in France http://www.vercors-plongee.com/#/plongee-caverne/2967246
You don't need any caving experience and not much diving experience.
It was great, he even had a motorised wheelbarrow to carry all the gear to the cave!! You've got to get yourself to France obviously, but it could be combined with a general holiday. My wife, friends and children went round the show cave while I was diving.
I'd recomend it to anybody who's done a bit of diving and fancied something a bit different while they were in the area.
I've also snorkelled in one of the 'Green Holes' caves in Ireland, but you'd need to enlist a local to help with finding the entrance, tides etc etc.
You don't need any caving experience and not much diving experience.
It was great, he even had a motorised wheelbarrow to carry all the gear to the cave!! You've got to get yourself to France obviously, but it could be combined with a general holiday. My wife, friends and children went round the show cave while I was diving.
I'd recomend it to anybody who's done a bit of diving and fancied something a bit different while they were in the area.
I've also snorkelled in one of the 'Green Holes' caves in Ireland, but you'd need to enlist a local to help with finding the entrance, tides etc etc.
In reply to ice.solo:
Years ago, when I caved and dived, I did just that. Just "tourist" diving though, in lined sumps, nothing exploratory. I was lucky in that the OP centre I was working in ran a lake-rescue service, so I had access to plenty of extra gear from which I made myself a cave-diving rig. I trained myself by going out at night and grovelling around in the pilings of the boat-jetty and also by going into nice roomy places like the flooded workings in Hodge Close. When I subsequently went into some big Yorkshire sumps I was well psyched-up and enjoyed it very much. The reason I didn't carry on was nothing to do with the diving side - I've always been much happier under water than throwing-up on the surface - so much as the tedium of lugging all that gear into the cave. At a time when SRT was making caving a much slicker and simpler business, its appeal was greater.
> (In reply to zakmacro)
>
> ive caved and ive dived, and sometimes contemplate cave diving but im simply chicken.
>
> but go for it i say. a great goal to set yourself.
>
>>
> ive caved and ive dived, and sometimes contemplate cave diving but im simply chicken.
>
> but go for it i say. a great goal to set yourself.
>
>
> good luck, go hard, stay safe.
> good luck, go hard, stay safe.
Years ago, when I caved and dived, I did just that. Just "tourist" diving though, in lined sumps, nothing exploratory. I was lucky in that the OP centre I was working in ran a lake-rescue service, so I had access to plenty of extra gear from which I made myself a cave-diving rig. I trained myself by going out at night and grovelling around in the pilings of the boat-jetty and also by going into nice roomy places like the flooded workings in Hodge Close. When I subsequently went into some big Yorkshire sumps I was well psyched-up and enjoyed it very much. The reason I didn't carry on was nothing to do with the diving side - I've always been much happier under water than throwing-up on the surface - so much as the tedium of lugging all that gear into the cave. At a time when SRT was making caving a much slicker and simpler business, its appeal was greater.
In reply to zakmacro: As other people have mentioned, most UK cave divers tend to be cavers who take up diving to explore or access new passageway.
A free diving trip to sump 9 in swildons is a UK Classic although prob best to build up to this kind of trip.
A free diving trip to sump 9 in swildons is a UK Classic although prob best to build up to this kind of trip.
In reply to zakmacro: as others have said, you def need to get lots of diving experience, up to sports diver/advanced, do lots of deep wreck diving in uk waters, then after a couple of years under your belt or 100+ dives do some caverns, hodge close quarry could be an intro, but divers have died in hodge close.
also you may need to learn nitrox/trimix, twin tank set up/side slung with this you`ll also need dedicated technical bcd/wings, you`ll at least need a back up pony cylinder.
oh nearly forgot, you`ll need plenty of ££££££££££££££££££££££`s
enjoy.
also you may need to learn nitrox/trimix, twin tank set up/side slung with this you`ll also need dedicated technical bcd/wings, you`ll at least need a back up pony cylinder.
oh nearly forgot, you`ll need plenty of ££££££££££££££££££££££`s
enjoy.
In reply to zakmacro: An easy and spectacular cavedive to start might be in Lanzarote, or at least 10k of the coast, Roc dela este (rock of the east) or something like that if any of the commercial dive clubs do it, its a cave straight through the island big enough to drive a bus through about 200mts long from memory as can`t find logbook of dive, with sink holes in the bottom having rays circling in them morays in the side of cave and baracudas outside.
All this and no cave diving experience needed, had to hire a fishing boat when we did it but expect there`s trips out now
All this and no cave diving experience needed, had to hire a fishing boat when we did it but expect there`s trips out now
In reply to butteredfrog:
No he is not lucky or brave he is extremely skilful & calculating and a very nice man to boot
> (In reply to JJL)
> [...]
>
> >Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
>
> He was/is a brave/lucky boy! good read
> [...]
>
> >Oh, and get a copy of Farr's "The Darkness Beckons" if you need any final help in making your mind up.
>
> He was/is a brave/lucky boy! good read
No he is not lucky or brave he is extremely skilful & calculating and a very nice man to boot
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
Indeed.
All the starred HVS at Stanage in a day?! Respect.
> (In reply to butteredfrog)
> [...]
>
> No he is not lucky or brave he is extremely skilful & calculating and a very nice man to boot
> [...]
>
> No he is not lucky or brave he is extremely skilful & calculating and a very nice man to boot
Indeed.
All the starred HVS at Stanage in a day?! Respect.
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