UKC

/ Chemical weapon attack in Syria

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
L David Cohen - on 13 Apr 2018

Not a thread about whether we should support military action vs Syria and Assad.

However does anyone really believe that Syria is not responsible for the numerous chemical weapon attacks and are the Russians trolling us in that the UK staged the most recent atrocity?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

good grief you are busy today.

are you trying to win a bet against the Lemming....?

jondo - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

new user, no profile, 'david cohen'

can't be a more jewish name. posts massively on anti semitism topics and stuff. 

so are you a climber ? wtf you done on grit mate ? 

Rampikino - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Remember that former UKC user called Dror?

bouldery bits - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

Alreet, I'll play.

The situation for proper people who actually live in Syria like is unlikely to be improved by bombing Syrian people. 

A cheeky assassination tho...

 

 

Lusk - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to jondo:

If he'd called himself Abdullah Cohen, I might take him seriously.

aln - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

Pop! There you are with no previous posting history, nothing about climbing, but all over anti-semitism etc. Are you a bot or a journalist or what? 

L David Cohen - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to jondo:

Back in the day (early-mid 90's) lots of trad up to a solid HVS/E1, then a break when I lived in East Anglia and then started again about 2 years ago now mainly limited to bouldering.

Fav routes, Suicide Wall (Cratcliffe), Inverted V, The Knutter, Chalk Storm (2nd), Scratched Arete, Main Wall (Cyrn Las apols for the probable poor spelling). Hardest boulder problem, Not to be taken away.  

To prove recent climbing experience, here's the beta for number 9 on the comp circuit at the Depot, start, match the small slopey crimp, get your weight low and reach left around the corner to a good sloper, shift your weight left and go over with your right hand to the big blob, match this, run your feet up and go for the jug then it is easy.

The reason for posting so much recently is the wife is away and I am stuck inside with a dodgy ankle (I slipped over after a couple too many glasses of wine)

alx on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

I saw the alerts for the bombing this morning. I am woefully ignorant of the situation in Syria, I would had thought that international intervention would have been the last thing Assad would have wanted at this stage.

 

Ciro - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

I don't know much about climbing at the depot, and I don't know much about fighting a civil war, but given that the Syrian government know that the West will feel free to bomb them if they use chemical weapons, I can't for the life of me figure out why they would use them. What's the advantage of inviting us further into the conflict?

wintertree - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> I can't for the life of me figure out why they would use them. 

Because Putin told them to?

Or because they’ve got a 1st rate Russian air defence network and aren’t to worried about a few cruise missiles?

Ridge - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

> because they’ve got a 1st rate Russian air defence network

That's a phrase you don't often hear

 

Post edited at 11:12
L David Cohen - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to alx:

Unless you're a combination of RUSI and Chatham house personified I doubt anyone can claim to fully understand the situation in Syria.

But as a brief precis Assad is the son of an even more brutal dictator.  Following the Arab spring he launched a brutal suppression of the protests that quickly led to civil war and a loss of government control over large parts of the country.

DAESH and others moved into the vacuum and Syria called on Russia, Iran and Hezbollah for assistance.

As for what Assad wants, it is less what he wants than what he needs.  He needs a way out as military victory will not mean peace, the problem is that Assad's exit would be a grave loss to Iran and Russia.

 

L David Cohen - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

Or because their economy is going down the toilet and the Russian and Iranian (particularly the latter) appetite for funding the war is not endless: therefore this was  a quick way of winning ground.

Idlib would have been next.

Jon Stewart - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> I don't know much about climbing at the depot, and I don't know much about fighting a civil war, but given that the Syrian government know that the West will feel free to bomb them if they use chemical weapons, I can't for the life of me figure out why they would use them.

Only on UKC could this sentence exist.

nufkin - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

>  To prove recent climbing experience, here's the beta for number 9 on the comp circuit at the Depot

Great. That's my weekend ruined

Ciro - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

What do Russia gain from drawing in western cruise missile strikes?

wintertree - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> What do Russia gain from drawing in western cruise missile strikes?

A large scale, live test of the efficacy of their anti-aircraft defences.  The opportunity to gather a lot of electronic intelligence on the EM emissions of current western cruise missiles.  A chance to test any human or electronic surveillance in the western political or military command structures designed to give them early warning of future attacks.

Sewing more discord internationally and at the UN.  

Anti-western, pro-putin publicity at home.

A more illuminating question is what did the Russians loose by drawing in the attacks?  It seems every effort was made to keep all Russian bases safe.  

If the west wants to make any real difference with air strikes, a lot of anti-radar missiles are going to have to go in first, and that would make the Russians decidedly unhappy.

Oceanrower - on 14 Apr 2018
wintertree - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

Poster gives up and changes their UKC username to “Badly Dyslexic”.

L David Cohen - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

The latest one to 'grind my gears' is the use of none instead of non: i.e. a none contact sport.

Ciro - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

Then what have we to gain from giving them enough warning we were coming to get things out of the way and under cover of these anti-missile systems, then destroying the evidence before the opcw could get their investigation team on the ground? If it's all Russia's doing, why don't we want the international community to have a chance to prove it?

teh_mark on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

Following the Brexit vote, an initiative has been launched to rid ourselves of those pesky French words from our language and go back to our proud British roots.

Unfortunately we unexpectedly appear to have lost a sizeable portion of our vocabulary, and to add insult to injury, in the confusion we've also lost 'weekend', 'shopping' and 'T-shirt'.

wintertree - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> Then what have we to gain from giving them enough warning we were coming to get things out of the way and under cover of these anti-missile systems,

I think you will find these things were already as out of the way and under the air defence network, being located at military bases in an active war zone...

then destroying the evidence before the opcw could get their investigation team on the ground? If it's all Russia's doing, why don't we want the international community to have a chance to prove it?

Why don’t we wait for the *wider* international community to prove it?  I assume you are wilfully ignoring Russia’s use of its veto to actively prevent this.

Ciro - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to wintertree:

> I think you will find these things were already as out of the way and under the air defence network, being located at military bases in an active war zone...

We hit our targets and caused a lot of damage. If those targets were in fact making weapons in contravention of Syria's obligations, announcing our intentions on Twitter would surely have allowed at least some key personnel and technologies to be moved to Russian bases. Having given them that courtesy, what was the advantage of destroying the sites before the OPCW could get there to see if such activities were going on? (Activities, let's not forget, which they found we're not going on in investigations in 2017). 

> then destroying the evidence before the opcw could get their investigation team on the ground? If it's all Russia's doing, why don't we want the international community to have a chance to prove it?

> Why don’t we wait for the *wider* international community to prove it?  I assume you are wilfully ignoring Russia’s use of its veto to actively prevent this.

Not wilfully ignoring anything, just asking questions

Are you wilfully ignoring Russia's request for an OPCW investigation? 

Eric9Points - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> I don't know much about climbing at the depot, and I don't know much about fighting a civil war, but given that the Syrian government know that the West will feel free to bomb them if they use chemical weapons, I can't for the life of me figure out why they would use them. What's the advantage of inviting us further into the conflict?

Here's a possible explanation: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/assad-alawite-syria/557810/

As usual, the world is a much more complicated place than we are often aware of.

In reply to David Cohen:

> However does anyone really believe that Syria is not responsible for the numerous chemical weapon attacks?

Yeah about 150 million Russians who distrust the UK government as much as we distrust theirs. And they have every much reason to. Look back through history and you will find many examples of UK/US/French duplicity. CIA/MI6 inciting the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953, Contra/Iran arms deal, Rainbow Warrior being blown up by French secret services - and I haven't even mentioned Iraq or Vietnam!

Why would you believe these people rather than Putin or Assad. Fact is we don't know who to trust.

 

krikoman - on 16:11 Fri
In reply to David Cohen:

> The reason for posting so much recently is the wife is away and I am stuck inside with a dodgy ankle (I slipped over after a couple too many glasses of wine)

 

Not really true though is it, because you've posted plenty before under a different persona. You have demonstrated a great deal of past knowledge of other posters and their proclivities. So your not "new" with time on your hands, you might have time on your hands but you didn't only just join 13th April 2018.

Pull the other one

off-duty - on 16:58 Fri
In reply to the uncomfortable truth:

> Why would you believe these people rather than Putin or Assad. Fact is we don't know who to trust.

I think you mean YOU don't know who to trust. I'm pretty comfortable, thanks.

In reply to off-duty:

> I think you mean YOU don't know who to trust. I'm pretty comfortable, thanks.


Good for you! What's that based on?

off-duty - on 17:28 Fri
In reply to the uncomfortable truth:

> Good for you! What's that based on?

Experience. 

In reply to off-duty:

> Experience. 

Would love to hear more. Oh, but then you'd have to kill everyone on ukclimbing. Best not then!

Lusk - on 17:54 Fri
In reply to the uncomfortable truth:

He's a police officer, all suspects are guilty

L David Cohen - on 09:35 Sat
In reply to Lusk:

You're an anti-Semite, well done for properly outing yourself.

L David Cohen - on 09:37 Sat
In reply to krikoman:

Oy, a conspiracy.

 

The truth is I have visited the site for a while since I got back into climbing after the Depot opened in Manchester.


Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.