UKC

Feels like I've only just saying to everyone "Will it ever stop raining?", but the man-eating cracks on the cricket pitch have started to open again after what feels like quite a short dry spell.  I guess the water table never really recovered from last summer.  A quick google reveals some stuff room the Govt. back in Feb (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-hot-dry-spell-away-from-drought-retu...) saying effectively this, but it feels like it's here again now.

Anyone with a more scientific/professional view in the pub?  Is it too soon to start talking about hose-pipe bans?  Is the issue not the volume of water in resevoirs, which may be OK, but the state of the water table?

In reply to Bobling:

What you want are the “water situation report” links on here; second link down is most recent.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-national-monthly...

It’s looking as good as could be hoped after winter/spring I think.

Might not be good enough for parts of the south.

In reply to wintertree:

I can't give a scientific view but here in the SE of England we haven't seen any rain for two weeks and I saw this on the BBC News site yesterday - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65720206

Dave

In reply to Tringa:

Same here in Edinburgh.  I've already emptied my water butts topping up the pond.  Looks like the tadpoles will have to put up with tap water if it continues like this much longer...

In reply to Bobling:

I think it's the timing of the rain this year. It was the driest February for 30 years, followed by the wettest March on record. Once spring is in motion almost all rainfall is immediately sucked up by plants and trees. It doesn't have a chance to soak into the ground and replenish ground water supplies like winter rain. So while everything is looking green and lush now, it won't take a lot of hot/dry weather for a return to last years conditions.

In reply to Bobling:

I was really shocked at how low the upper Derwent reservoir was this weekend considering the claims of higher than average rainfall over the winter/spring months.

It did make me wonder how effective the proposed dam wall height increases in the valley would be if they can't even fill the reservoirs they already have with the catchment available.

In reply to Bobling:

Don't fly, don't drive, don't eat meat.....

In reply to Bobling:

Our hosepipe ban (Devon) started a few weeks ago,  and in some areas their ban started last August. 

In reply to wintertree:

Thanks WT, perfect!

In reply to Bobling:

Not affecting homeowners, but businesses extracting water from rivers etc in an area of the Highlands have been asked to reduce water usage because of water scarcity:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65720206

In reply to flatlandrich:

Thanks a nice explanation for what’s going on - thanks.  The wet March may not have done much for ground water levels but it helped the reservoirs recover a lot - so we’re going in to the summer better than we could have done…

Grass has encroached onto most of the back lanes around here, a strip a foot or two wide with only an inch of root mat and soil sat on tarmac; those strips have gone very yellow recently - one of the early indicators locally that things are drying out exceptionally.  That can all reverse within days of heavy rain but the two week forecasts are looking bone dry…

In reply to wintertree:

Same here - the green strip down the middle of our gravel drive is looking decidedly yellow. The tractor ruts in one of our scout campsite's 'wet' fields are rock hard too. Our wooden scout hut is also flexing, I struggle to lock the door now.

In reply to gethin_allen:

It's all about capturing water and not letting it run to waste in extreme years. We used to have hosepipe bans here when I was a kid because they couldn't capture and store water at certain times of year - most of the storage was in old granite quarries with little or no means of refilling them, so in winter the quarries could be half-empty yet the stream-fed dammed valley reservoir was overflowing. So they connected all the quarries, reservoir and abstraction points with 24" raw water transfer mains, thus allowing them to alter the levels in the quarries at will and capture the water that would have previously overflowed to sea.

  Higher levels in your reservoir mean higher water pressures forcing water into aquifers below, thus improving storage beyond the simple increase in reservoir capacity.

In reply to Toerag:

I understand where you're coming from there but if the current reservoir hasn't even nearly been filled after what was considered to be a wet winter and spring how will making the reservoir any larger help? The only way it could help would be if the catchment area was increased, maybe if as you say they added a water distribution system to the mix it could be useful.

In reply to Wainers44:

South West Water has imposed a hosepipe ban on all of Cornwall and a small part of Devon, since extended, since last August. Colliford, the main reservoir in Cornwall, is at 69%. This time last year it was much the same at 68%. That apart, I have noticed that many perennially muddy sections of walks / runs I do round and about are rock hard dry already in a way I have never seen in 20 years.

At my allotments, as chair, I have to engage in hosepipe wars with people who refuse to believe this ban has anything to do with them, despite signs up at the. allotment since the day it was imposed and despite it saying, as item number one in SWW's list of What can't I do?: "Watering a garden (this includes allotments)".

In reply to mbh:

Yup we are in the extended Devon bit. The east side of the moor is very dry and of course the grocks have arrived so demand for water goes up massively. 

Be ready for the break in the weather though,  we are camping on Scilly in about a weeks time. Cue monsoon.....!! 🤣

In reply to Bobling:

Well, I'm currently regretting not picking up a couple more water butts when I saw them on sale and I've been seriously considering getting a few large bottles of water drinking water in, as a stand by.

I think we could well be in some sort of trouble later this summer.

In reply to flatlandrich:

This. The plants are right messed up, more than in any other year I can remember. Anything that doesn't like drowning (March) and anything that can't handle drought and unseasonable cold (last few weeks) has suffered or died.

I've had any number of conversations with gardeners about how they've lost plants unexpectedly this year, No insects - the bird feeder has a constant queue!

In reply to Bobling:

Here in Gairloch we have had  less than 1 inch of rain in the past 5 weeks. Outlook for next 3+ weeks looks like virtually no precipitation.  Hills are very dry and fire risk is high.  

In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:

I hope one day to retire to Gairloch although the loss of the Melvaig Inn and its robot collection was a blow!  Nothing better in life than going for a swim in the bay several times a day.

The Met Office anomaly map for May is out and is quite something - I don’t recall having seen a month like it.

If we keep having years like this we’re going to need winter runoff collecting reservoir tanks under every field…. My rainwater tank for the orchard is unlikely to make it through June at this rate.

In reply to Bobling:

Yup, just checked and no expected for a couple of weeks here...

In reply to Bobling:

Same here.  Atmospheric water harvesting, it’s the way forwards!  

In reply to Bobling:

In Devon and Cornwall, in the heat, the new variation on the tourist tax is to make every grockle donate half a pint of sweat each per day. That will be collected at sweat shops and distilled back to drinking water. Vest tops, especially those that still have "fat willy's surf shack" on them will be banned to ensure everyone stays sufficiently hot and moist.

In reply to Bobling:

The 14-day forecasts keep trending hotter, mid to high 20s on the cards Monday week.  My 1500L rainwater tank is half down and I’d not normally touch it by this time of year.  

In reply to wintertree:

We're having consistent easterly to north-easterly winds up here in Edinburgh, so it's quite cool when the sky is overcast, but the currently prevailing weather systems seem to be making sure that it's either clear all day, or clears around lunchtime, and once the sun does come out it gets pretty warm pretty quickly.

What we really need just now are more of the westerly weather systems off the Atlantic that are usually the norm round here.

In reply to Martin W:

The unusual prevailing winds are really clear on the pollution forecast maps; there’s an “atmospheric NOx river” running from Hull to Dublin…

In reply to Wainers44:

Yes, Dartmoor is looking very dry ATM. Lots of bits that are normally still bog like on my usual walks are bone dry.

I see SWW reservoir levels at about 80% overall, about the same as this time last year, although we have had a slightly odd dry winter, wet spring (prior to this dry May) leading into this. 

Roadford levels seem to be particularly low, doesn't seem to have been topped up over the winter, the other reservoirs seem to be fairing better. 

https://www.southwestwater.co.uk/environment/water-resources/current-reserv...

In reply to Phil79:

I'm surprised at differing profiles, especially Burrator.  If they empty as some of them have in previous years, we face water rationing by July!

In reply to Wainers44:

One of the nice things about living in the north lands is Kielder...

https://riverlevels.uk/kielder-reservoir-northumberland

I think the water can get as far a York via various transfer schemes now, could get political...

In reply to Wainers44:

Yes me too. Not been to close to Burrator for a few weeks, but I'd be surprised if it was still 99% full! Probably driving past this evening so I'll stop for a look. 

I think Roadford in particular doesn't have a large catchment, and probably misses a lot of the rain that falls on the western flanks of Dartmoor, hence takes a long time to recharge. Given its largest reservoir in area that seems a bit of a drawback!

In reply to Phil79:

Yes it was a slightly odd location choice. Doesn't pick up any of the Dartmoor catchment,  as that water all runs past the dam in the nearby River Thrushel. 

The moor is crazy dry, and with blooming BBQs and fag ends it must be at very high risk of fire at the moment.  Aiming to do a N to S crossing again soon and might have to divert into a pub to get liquid refreshments....!

In reply to Wainers44:

Big fire near Inverness, probably caused by a camping fire. First of many I fear. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland-wildfires-how-big-cannich-fire-s...

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

I think there was one in the Eastern Lakes over the weekend as well.  Two disposable BBQs were involved. 

In reply to Wainers44:

Having watched a family use 2 disposable BBQs on a recycled plastic bench in a local park I despair.

They should just be outright banned including from flebay and Amazon etc.

To many people are too stupid.  End of. 

People thought I was mad for trimming back dry clematis near the house last spring.  A crop field wildfire (spark when tractoring) came within 200 m of the house in the late summer.

In reply to wintertree:

Spot on re: banning disposable BBQs. And ban the  helium ‘I am fvcking 21’ balloons and the Chinese ‘my wires get into cows stomachs’ lanterns. 

In reply to wintertree:

Agreed. Same ban should cover inflatable paddleboard use without buoyancy aids. Having watched about 5 separate families attempt to wipe their kids out in the sea on the E Devon coast, there is little hope for sense, common or otherwise. 

In reply to Bobling:

With this obvious lack of rain the bloke over the road from me decided to spend 4 hours this afternoon pressure washing his drive. He then went on to hose the side of the house, can't let those bricks get thirsty can we! If he has the same water pressure we do he's just wasted over 3,000 litres of drinking water.

In reply to gethin_allen:

Well, there's no point doing it during a hosepipe ban is there ... ?

In reply to Wainers44:

Went and had a look at Burrator yesterday, it looks completely full which is a bit odd given how little rain we've had. I can only think SWW might not be extracting from it at the moment, possibly holding it in reserve for later in the summer?    

In reply to Wainers44:

The problem is that the aquifers got heavily depleted last year. The wet winter has topped up the reservoirs, but the aquifers / groundwater levels are still low.

In reply to Toerag:

Groundwater levels in drinking water aquifers are actually mostly at normal levels (or where at end of April). There are some areas/aquifers slightly below average, mainly in the sandstones in the west midlands.

The principal Chalk aquifers of south and east England all look healthy.

See Page 14 of this:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

Obviously that will change with continued lack of rainfall/lower recharge.

In reply to Bobling:

I was surprised to discover how dry the Western Highlands currently are. Just walked the Great Glen Way and, if I'd engaged a bit of imagination, I could have easily imagined myself to be in the Pyrenees in the height of summer.

Scary.

In reply to Phil79:

The scenario modelling in s7.2 (fig 7.5) in that report is quite optimistic about ground water, but then it’s worst case was 60% of long term average rainfall.  Parts of the south have had and continue to have - rather worse recently…

Next monthly update to the report should be out soon.  The most recent weekly rainfall figures show it hasn’t rained anywhere appreciably in England for two weeks. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

Another piece of anecdata - HGVs are now kicking up big dust clouds from the verges around here.  On the radio today is news we’re entering a potentially exceptional El Niño.  One wonders just how fast this can escalate.  Looking over some of the most mismanaged Durham fells on a walk the other week I was wondering where the first piece of England could be that turns to desert.

In reply to wintertree:

Just finished Hadrian's wall path, one patch of wet mud in 84 miles.

In reply to Bobling:

On St Agnes, Isles of Scilly.  Watching the punch up between high pressure and an Atlantic storm, in 40mph Easterly winds in big sky's. Maybe rain tonight.  Have hammered tent pegs in hard.  Really need the rain here though. 

In reply to wintertree:

Is this the start of Friday night Drought plotting?  I hope not!

In reply to Bobling:

I think it’s going to be a “hot” topic in another couple of week.

The body of the ball valve just failed on the output of my big rainwater tank and I lost it all.  

In reply to wintertree:

Hit and miss but some places might get a months average rainfall in the weekend thunderstorms.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/maps-and-charts/rainfall-radar-forecas...]]

In reply to tehmarks:

Coll bogs are almost enjoyable right now and the west end is riding beautifully…. Just baked hoofprints as obstacles

In reply to Offwidth:

Ah, the oft promised and rarely delivered thundery breakdown!  A month or so ago the local river rose 75 cm in 10 minutes under clear blue skies from a localised storm 5 miles upstream, never seen anything like that in the UK before.

Windly do a nice plot integrating the forecast rainfall - the plot below is from ECMWF data.  Not good news for my new mirabelles.

In reply to wintertree:

Nice plot

I'd already noticed your area was low probability for weekend rainfall. 

In reply to wintertree:

I'm curious as to why they model rainfall beyond the Welsh border but not north of the border with Scotland?

In reply to Jon Read:

I’d hazard because the Severn gets some off its water from rainfall in Wales and supplies much of the water to the West Midlands in England.

No significant rivers cross the England/Scotland border.

Edit: perhaps it’s also a hangover of the more recent devolution of EA powers to the Welsh government than to Scotland?

Edit 2: Squinting at the plots it’s more likely to be about west-to-east border crossing river flows.

In reply to wintertree:

I think the inhabitants of Berwick might beg to differ? I wonder where they get their water from - best not upset the Scots ...

In reply to Lankyman:

Okay, it crosses a few miles before the current border…  I tend to think of the river *as* the border but you’re right it snakes away at the last moment.  But it’s tidal not fresh water that crosses the border.

I’ll re-phrase my post “no significant fresh water rivers cross the England / Scotland border”

Boreholes.  In England.  Probably because in England the tweed is tidal.

https://waterprojectsonline.com/custom_case_study/murton-wtw-2020/

A good general rule for living in Berwick!

In reply to Bobling:

What does /thread think - should we try to get this moved to off-belay for posterity?  Be a shame to lose it now.

In reply to Bobling:

Move is always my view.... so many excellent and useful threads lost this way. If people are that worried about work IT rules they shouldn't be posting in the pub either.

In reply to wintertree:

Yes that's true. I live near the Wye which rises a stone's throw from the Severn's source on Pumlumon. We get pretty much the same surges along the Wye as the Severn if it rains persistently in  Mid Wales.

These once-beautiful rivers are now mere culverts of barely diluted shit and agricultural horrors, badly in need of some rainfall. The forecasted thunderstorms won't be enough, even if they do actually arrive.

In reply to Bobling:

With nothing to blow or wash them away, the willow catkins are coating the forest floor - floating down by the thousand in the sun it’s like an alien vista with twinkling air. 

Moss isn’t looking so good though…

In reply to Offwidth:

Any idea how I do it? 

In reply to Bobling:

Well two weeks on and the weather forecast for me is the same, no significant rain in the next ten days.  Ouch.

Meanwhile those man-eating cracks in the cricket field?  Last night training and all games were cancelled for the forseeable future as the cracks are now so big it is unsafe to play on the field.  To use a much over used phrase, this is unprecedented.

In reply to Bobling:

You can't move a thread yourself.  If you think it should be moved your best bet would be to click the red "! Report" button at a top at write a little note to the mods asking them to do it and explaining why.

In reply to Bobling:

There's something a bit galling about sitting here with a broken ankle after slipping on a patch of mud ... 6 weeks later and I don't think I could find a patch of mud in the Highlands to slip on if I tried!

Tinder dry as the Cannich wildfire showed, and even Loch Ness and the River Ness are suffering :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65855228

In reply to gld73:

Back on the Earba Hydro Scheme thread this February I’d raised my view that - going forwards with climate changes - water availability becomes a major issue for pumped hydro.  I was assured it’s not an issue as it’s not lost etc.

Your linked article suggests it is an issue in a different way - the vast quantity of water is there, but it’s being held in the wrong place having been moved there was a way of banking energy.  

Ness fishery board said levels remained concerningly low and claimed water that could help ease the situation was being stored - unused - for hydro-power.

Almost monthly the reports on the climate situation are getting worse.  Can we afford to use water as such a low energy density way of storing energy?  Becoming contentious now; by the end of the lifetime of a new scheme?

An interesting English language news story came out yesterday into rising tensions in France over water storage schemes for agriculture - https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/08/megabasins-solution-or-insane-response-...

Water politics is becoming a thing close to home.  

In reply to Pedro50:

We went out to look for mud today, found some in the deepest darkest parts of the Derwent Gorge NNR.  The verges are really yellowing now, the tops are going to be a tinderbox after the next week or two.

In reply to wintertree:

I've just been to Morecambe to get some DIY stuff (what an absolutely stunning waste of a day). It was 31 on the car thermometer and the grass was all yellowing. It's getting like the heatwaves of last summer. No sign of the thunderstorms being talked about on the local forecast.

In reply to Lankyman:

I agree it’s got the feel of last summer but it looks more like a persistent reversal of the prevailing wind than the weird detached jet steam “rotor” from last summer that pumped hot air north from Africa.

I could see a couple of clouds trying to rise into thunderstorms over lunch but their hearts wasn’t in it.  If we do get thunderstorms I dare say most of it is going to roll straight off parched soils.  Looks like we could enter summer already parched.

Might be time to start pumping the bath out into the big rainwater tank for the orchard.

In reply to Lankyman:

31°C at 6pm today in the shade under a tree on the East side of our house in South Manc.

In reply to Lankyman:

They just missed Morecambe and seemed pretty significant if localised (as very much predicted in the main forecasts). Bad in a few areas of the west midlands  and before that around Swindon earlier. The improvements in the Met Office radar maps both predict for days and give observations for days.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/maps-and-charts/rainfall-radar-forecas...]]

In reply to Offwidth:

In this bit of SE England we missed the rain yesterday and are now, apart from from one night when it drizzled a bit but not enough to wet all the ground, we have had no rain for just over a month.

Dave

In reply to Offwidth:

It rained quite heavily last night and there was rain again this morning. Damp on the ground but the sun is out again and I doubt it will have made much impact on the state of the rivers and streams.

Manchester area.  Nowt.  The promised storms have not materialised (yet)

In reply to Tringa:

I'm also in the SE and it's getting a bit worrying already. Deep rooted Rhubarb plants in my south facing garden managed to go through all of the fierce heat last year without needing watering, but in the last couple of days they've certainly wilted badly. Water butts are already empty and there's no rain in the forecast for the next week at least.  

In reply to flatlandrich:

The doc leafs I’ve failed to weed are wilting and turning red; as with your rhubarb they had no problems in last years drought.  I think it’s hitting them in peak growing season this year which is harder for them.

But…. Big news…. It rained tonight here in the mid parts of Weardale. Perhaps 1.5 mm?  Enough to bring a fresh smell to the air and wet the top soil.

In reply to wintertree:

In west Devon we had perhaps an hour of rain on Friday evening, and a little on Saturday morning. Like you, enough to wet the topsoil, and lawn looking slightly less brown, but did nothing to fill our water butts. 

And back to sunshine by Sunday, with forecast dry again for whole week....  

In reply to wintertree:

In better news, my kids enjoyed an ascent of Wildboar Clough (Summer) (Grade-2) on Sunday, with not a drop of water coming down any of the falls. Hardly any pools at all to negotiate either.

In reply to Phil79:

Heavy rain in West Cumbria (Cleator Moor) on Saturday night but it did nothing for the oppressive heat and humidity. And judging by how low the streams were on Sunday on the way up Scafell (and how bone dry the crag was) it seems to have been fairly localised. Drove through a few showers on the way home but nothing significant. I'm torn between enjoying the lovely dry crags and being a) worried about the fire risk and water situation this summer and b) absolutely knackered and in need of a cool night's sleep and a weekend off climbing!

In reply to Bobling:

Latest water situation report is out.  The most pessimistic forwards look at river flows is low, low, low for northern England, and recently we’ve been in that groove.  The soul moisture deficit plots show the changing ground conditions.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

In reply to wintertree:

Looking at that report, I find it extraordinary, and frightening that despite the south west, where I live, having above average rainfall in seven of the nine months up to May this year, everywhere looks so bone dry.

In reply to mbh:

I know, it’s hard to square all the different bits of data and evidence off isn’t it?  The post upthread from flatlandrich helped me wrap my head around it - timing is everything.  Problem now is that when it rains it’s going to be on to really parched ground.

In reply to wintertree:

It rained in this bit of SE England on Sunday, for about 10 mins. It did not make much of an impact on the water butts and after it stopped the humidity felt even worse as the water evaporated from the ground.

Fortunately, nearby areas of grassland are still green so little chance of fire yet, but we really need some decent, but not torrential, rain so it soaks into the ground.

Dave

In our part of Edinburgh we had a small amount of rain overnight Saturday-Sunday, enough to leave cars wet and monoblock paving looking damp, but not enough to make any difference to our water butts or the level of our pond.  A local friend reported a short, heavy downpour just after midday on Sunday but we got nothing here, about 3 miles away and 450ft higher up.

Yesterday I went for a walk over Hare Hill in the Pentlands.  The upper parts of the hill were really dry: bits that would normally have been boggy were just brownish, not very lively-looking moss.  I descended in to Green Cleuch, where the burn was flowing but definitely a good bit lower than usual.  (On the positive side, the sand martins that come there to nest every year were present and busy.)  The marshy areas at the top of the cleuch still looked pretty green, though.

The level in Threipmuir reservoir looked more or less normal.  On the Saturday, however, I was out along the A70 and Harperrigg reservoir looked seriously depleted.  The margins were many metres wide and very dry, and an island was visible towards the west end of the reservoir that isn't normally there.

The next forecast of any meaningful likelihood of rain here is Saturday afternoon, according to the Met Office.  I'm not holding my breath for that: the same time period is also forecast to be warm and sunny.  The picture looks a bit less bleak from Sunday, when the unrelenting sunshine is forecast to end and rainfall probabilities are at least above "<5%".

In reply to Bobling:

A fascinating report today on the effects of drought restoring a section of the Colorado river in what was Lake Powell - https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/11/lake-powell-glen-canyon-dro...

In reply to Bobling:

Strange, isn't it?  Almost as if the climate was changing to a monsoon/dry season cycle...

In reply to Bobling:

Forecast models are showing a consistent trend to westerlies and rain in 5-7 days time.  Still hot and parched ground so perhaps more a source of humidity than of soil moisture.  I had a go at aerating the lawn today with a garden fork, the idea being to help the rains soak in when they arrive and not just run off.  Hard work - the soil is rock hard.

The EA’s weekly rainfall and river flow summary should update tomorrow. 

It’s got me thinking about diverting the bath and washer water to a reed bed; not a simple job but the direction of travel seems clear over spring and summer weather.   If everyone did this though how much would the loss of flow to inland sewage plants hit river flow in dry spells?  I can think of a couple of outlets round here that add significantly to small rivers.

In reply to Bobling:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/14/wettest-place-in-england-la...

In reply to Bobling:

Cycling around Silverdale yesterday I was shocked at the appearance of the fields. The soil is shallow and the underlying rock is limestone, but the fields are brown. It looks like late August after a really “good?” summer.

In reply to Bobling:

My Rubinette Rosso trees seem to think it’s autumn.  Some savage thinning of the fruit is going to be needed I think.

There’s a new rainfall and river flow report out - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/... - basically no rain east of the Pennines for a month now.

Burns running on Mingulay yesterday. There was some rain overnight and today on Barra.

In reply to wintertree:

Interesting variety. Does it live up to expectations?

In reply to MG:

Almost.  I think the Red Devil we have is better, and we have a tree planted in the 1960s with small red that I think is the best I’ve ever eaten, no idea what it is though.

Desperate times for the newest trees this year.  Time to decide between bigger rain water tanks collecting from more gutters and a borehole I think.  One makes better sense and the other is a lot less disruptive…

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

I suppose drought will hit the smaller islands worse?  I haven’t been up in to the local moors for a couple of weeks but the change in their appearance from afar is dramatic.  If they’re this dry when the summer holiday season starts and disposable BBQs start flying off the shelves….

I was wondering if it’s time the UK invests in its own ariel fire fighting fleet the way things are going.  Helicopters probably make the most sense given the scarcity of giant inland lakes for heavily laden flying boats to operate from, but a western take on something like the Beriev 200 operating from Cow Green or Loch Ness would be a sight to see.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

In reply to wintertree:

Interesting. I have 19 apples currently and space for one  M25 standard to go in this autumn..  Probably Katy as it's an eater/cooker/juice/cider all rounder 

I've been taking out bowls of water for all the younger ones and M26s - ok so far 

 Time to decide between bigger rain water tanks collecting from more gutters and a borehole I think.  One makes better sense and the other is a lot less disruptive…

I have a stream and an looking at hand pump options 

In reply to MG:

Mist of mine are on M9 and I’m starting to wonder how much that affects the taste.  I’m thinking of trying some grafts from the old tree to give an A/B test.

I’m using a small 12V, 3A bilge pump to send the used bath water down.  Submersible and would work in a stream.  Ours is so incredibly low that I’m not sure it’s going to be flowing for much longer, and I’m loath to pump from it.  Potentially filling big tanks from it after winter storms is a much simpler option than roof harvesting.  I’ve been reading discussions on groundwater recharging in California with interest.  It’s not a lack of water that’s the problem here but a widening impedance mismatch between sky water and ground water.  

In reply to wintertree:

I think M9 is widely used commercially but vulnerable to drought and wind. I mostly have M26  and MM 106. I may have many apples in few years ...!

Will be interesting to hear , - both flavour and grafting success 

Yes. Our stream of doesn't seem to dry up but I wouldn't take much 

In reply to MG:

I set out to find varieties that will set fruit in milder winters as the priority and that didn’t leave much choice in rootstock; I figured it’s easier to fix drought than to fix winters without much cold 

Going to be some years to find out on the flavour; I’m very much between hobbies and I think grafting could be it for part of the year.

In reply to wintertree:

I'd like to try grafting but have run out of space!

I am waiting for a Black Worcester pear to fruit. A cooking " warden" pear almost a different fruit to normal pears but sounds delicious 

In reply to Bobling:

… and then the skies spoke.  

There’s a torrent of brown water 2” deep flowing along the - almost level - road outside at about 5 m/s.

In reply to wintertree:

We ve had a few good soakings in the last 24 hours, minimum 20 mm.  

Edit: monsooning it down again. Impressive. Hopefully, the ground being ‘wetted out’ means soakage rather than run-off-age. 

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Plenty of rain this evening though, thank goodness.

In reply to Phil1919: maybe 🤔 https://research.reading.ac.uk/research-blog/drought-heavy-rain-serious-pro...

In reply to wintertree:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/drought_again-760162?v=1#x97863...

The image attached to your post shows the rainfall amount, not the anomaly (difference to usual amount). Is that what you meant to post?

In reply to alibrightman:

Good spot.  My bad.  The actual anomaly map has a couple of blue spots on it.  It’s a much more interesting map - the western mountain areas have a much bigger reduction than elsewhere, presumably because they had so much more to loose.

Several torrential cloudbursts here in north east England and now persistent heavy rain.  

In reply to Neil Morrison:

From my point of view the problems are man made. Concrete, bare soils, compacted land are to blame.

In reply to Phil1919: Definitely part of the issue however the point re lack of infiltration on dry ground runs beyond that and isn’t so much a point view as observed and tested fact. It’s that bit where some folk see heavy rain and think drought is over. From a climbing standpoint I suppose there is a positive as I can sit here knowing today’s rain is unlikely to have much impact on my local mountain crags as much if it will speed through the system and end up in the North Sea. Different story if it keeps raining all this week though.

In reply to wintertree:

Sounds similar to what we got on Sunday in Edinburgh.  It did at least fill my water butts, though the pond was still left a bit low.

Yesterday more rain was forecast, but failed to arrive.  Also yesterday, the Met Office was forecasting a downpour this afternoon: today they've rowed back on that and are now forecasting showers in the afternoon and evening.  Tomorrow is the same, in amongst sunny intervals.  I suspect the reality will turn out to be less helpful water-wise on both days.  After that there's nothing forecast until Sunday - but that's five days away...

At least the wind seems to be moving around to its more usual direction, so the weather systems should be more like what we're used to.

In reply to Martin W:

I take that back: it is actually raining properly here just now.  Let's see how long it lasts.

In reply to Martin W:

Biblical rain in Cornwall right now. What a relief.

In reply to Martin W:

We had ~3 hours of medium-to-heavy rain that heralded exceptional levels of agricultural runoff on to the roads.  Time to start earth bunding the fields for enhanced water retention and flood prevention?

In reply to Bobling:

…. and now we’re back to westerlies and some Atlantic rain storms in the forecast.   But what a period beforehand.  All before summer even got started.  For once I’m hoping for a wet and cool few months ahead…

My Willingham gage tree had its first 3 fruits last year, so I was very excited to see several dozen this year.  All but one have turned light yellow and will fall off at the slightest disturbance.  Too late did I get a bathwater siphon set up.  We’ll be ready for the next exceptional dry spell…  The apples have done much better and the Medlar has fruit for the first time.  Apparently you’re supposed to let it rot in-situ on the tree then scoop the flesh out with a spoon.

Lots more agricultural runoff from periods of heavy rain, all that increasingly precious water going to avoidable waste.  I’ve seen more wild flower margins coming up - some subsidy? - and was wondering if they are left alone if they’ll become less densely packed and more absorbing to storm water acting as “living bunds”, or if they can be deliberately aerated to increase soak-in.   If this keeps up, agriculture is going to need to adapt.

In reply to wintertree:

Lay person's opinion, but I suspect looking after our soil (using no till, minimal till, cover crops etc) is going to be as important as talking CO2 for the planet to remain human habitable....  Let's of studies showing that runoff is mainly a product of our industrial farming practices. 

https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/6233/comparisonOfRunoffAndSoil_2.pdf

The plough may go the way of the oil rig, once a symbol of progress and industrial might, now outdated....

After a week of on-again-off-again forecasts and not a whole lot of rain here on the eastern side of the country, this afternoon we have what I think is needed: persistent but not torrential rain, so it has a chance to wet the soil properly rather than overwhelming the baked-hard surface's capacity to absorb it and running or even bouncing off in to the waste water system.

In reply to wintertree:

You can let them rot (blet) after picking -

https://www.rhs.org.uk/fruit/medlars/grow-your-own

I've only really bothered with them once - scoop the flesh out and then had to sieve I think to end up with a pleasent but not amazing paste.

There is a tree next to the Quince on our campus, so I might give them  a whirl again, it just seemed a high effort/low reward fruit.

In reply to Bobling:

The Met Office maps are out for June.  Despite the thundery breakdown and subsequent gentle rains, much of the UK was below or well below average for the June rainfall totals.  The spring maps shows the lack of rainfall in the north west highlands; plenty of rain ahead in the forecasts except perhaps for the Torridons.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-a...

In reply to Dr.S at work:

We've made medlar jelly before.  Our conclusion was that it was an awful lot of effort for something that tasted so forgettable, so we haven't bothered since.

Quince though, that's well worth doing something with.  Quince jelly goes very well with turkey and lamb, and helps make some fine chutneys.

T.

In reply to Bobling:

A staggering plot today on CNN of globally averaged daily temperatures - the last week has seen the record smashed, and its a month before things normally peak.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/05/world/hottest-day-world-climate-el-nino-...

In reply to wintertree:

Is this showing the average of the global maximum temperatures or the average of the average of the day and night (maximum and minimum) temperatures? I ask this partly because the apparently record high max daily temperatures in the UK in June were accompanied by rather cool night-time temperatures - at least that is how it seemed to me.