UKC

Can anyone suggest a good starter espresso machine?

People keep recommending the Gaggia Classic machine, but I am getting mixed reports about the milk frothing ability.

In reply to Milesy: I'm sure I must be missing something here but isn't espresso drank black?

In reply to graeme jackson:

I think espresso machines can make more than one kind of coffee, some of which include milk.

Hope to help...

()

In reply to graeme jackson:

Macchiato and Cappuccino are made with an espresso machine.

In reply to Milesy: depends on your budget. We got one as a wedding present it was about a ton. Pressure and temp seem ok.

In reply to Milesy:
I have a budget Gaggia - Espresso deluxe I think. Espresso is excellent. It will froth milk but runs out of steam very quickly, you need to reheat after each cupful.

In reply to Milesy:

My moka pot makes the the best coffee I have tasted and beats my dads espresso machine. The microwave does a good job on hot milk too.

In reply to Milesy: the one we've got is a kru? Or something like that. I would never bother with the milk froth bit. Too much hassle. Better with a jug of milk microwave and a wee ikea frother at about 5 quid. Esp if you are making multiple coffees at a dinner party. Using coffee frother in domestic machines tends to drop pressure and it takes longer to heat up. Since the coffee aint boiling. That would screw the taste up, you should preheat the cups. I use mine every morning. A cup at breakfast and one for the flask.

In reply to The Big Man:
Nespresso is the best - I've had the one you put on the stove, Gaggia, Bosch, Dualit etc etc. For me the Nespresso with its high pressure (19bar) produces the best coffee and with its capsules make no mess - a major disadvantage of all the others. rumour has it that H blumenfield, whoever he might be, serves nespresso in his gaff.

In reply to Milesy: The Gaggia classic would be fine as a starter machine. You will need a burr grinder and again Gaggia do an inexpensive one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-RI8121-Ceramic-Coffee-Grinder/dp/B0000C72S0/...

In reply to Milesy: I would say Nespresso too

In reply to brianblock:

+1 for Nespresso. I've had one for a couple of years now and love it ... bought one for work too and also my dad. You can get a milk frother too if you like milky coffee, but I drink it black, so the manual Magimix M100 is great for me.

In reply to Milesy: Ive had a Francis Francis X1 for about the last 6-7 years which has performed a stirling job a breakfast and other times of day. Im afraid I have nothing else to compare with. Also have a Kitchen Aid Burr Grinder for those fresh beans times.



http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=francis+francis&hl=en&prmd=imvnso&...

In reply to graeme jackson:

You're missing quite a lot. Every coffee on the continent is based on an expresso - if you can't do frothy stuff with milk yer fecked.

E

In reply to Milesy:
The Delonghi E330S came top in Which Magazine's review of the under £400 machines and I was very happy with mine. From the look of it the Icona seems very similar, but I'm not sure what you get for the extra money.
The E330S also looks good: simple, classic.

In reply to Milesy: you ll not go wrong with gaggia classic but the francis franics x1 is a better machine. you should be able to pick up of fleas at bay, probably paying 50 quid more for the x1. most domestic machines are pants at frothing milk. if your really on a budget try a gaggia cubika, £50 ish off the above mentioned well known auction site, again rubbish at milk but very reasonable espresso shots. the more you spend on the burr grinder the better, krups for £40 ish being a starter, the ascaso (cant remember the name) starter for £100 ish . if you really want good milk you re looking at £400 ish at auction , and the good machines go for silly money. bellabarista is a good site, gaggia sell reconditioned machines from their own site.

In reply to Milesy: Concentrate on the espresso and don't worry about a machine with the capability to do frothed milk - more to go wrong, costs more etc. Then spend 50 quid on an Aerocino (made by Nespresso, the bas*ards, but at least you don't have to spend the rest of your life paying them hand over fist for their evil little aluminum capsules).

I dislike Nestle with a passion - it's nice coffee but is drawn straight from the devil's teat as far as I am concerned. But I have to admit the Aerocino is a very good bit of kit. Small, silent, easily cleaned, can do hot or cold milk with small or really very good velvety froth - we have given up on the cappuccino maker on our Jura machine and just draw down espressos, and do the milk in the Aerocino - it's quicker, less messy, and nicer. Most mid range espresso machines make reasonable brews - the lower end can be awful - but it costs an lot to get a machine that does generate enough bar to do a good job of the milk.

In addition, the Aeropress IMHO gives the best non-powered coffee and can go camping easily, so the aeropress/aerocino (no relation) combo gives fantastic coffee if you are staying in a cottage somewhere etc.

HTH
b

In reply to Milesy: have a dualit one which is good. had a gaggia one (cube?) which was rubbish.

In reply to Milesy: http://www.home-barista.com/reviews.html?sid=ade3f67d4cc24d9e67e0e51e1767f1...

good source of info

In reply to Enty:

just goes to show I know bugger all. I only drink black filter coffee. Can't be doing with all that frothy nonsense.

In reply to Enty:

Grrrr! Fixed that for ya! There's no damn x in espresso - it's not fast, it's pressed!

</pedant>

In reply to Milesy: For good tasting coffee, the best bang per buck is a good grinder. You can spend magabucks but I've had pretty good consistent espresso results from a Dualit grinder which cost around £80.

Then before splashing the cash on a pricey espresso machine I'd suggest experimenting with roasting your own beans. With decent fresh ground coffee even a cheap espresso machine will taste pretty good.

If you're still sure you want a machine, I'd get the cheapest one that does the pressure you want. DeLonghi and Dualit do machines around the £80 mark with 15 bar pumps. If it doesn't froth milk to your satisfaction get a frother (as above).

But I still want a Gaggia - they do look pretty cool ...

In reply to Milesy:

Once you've got your machine and a decent burr grinder I've found that Waitrose have some really good choices of beans.

In reply to digby:

Thanks everyone. Seems the gaggia classic is the only one In my price range just now. I will stick with getting my beans ground for me until i can get a silvia rocky grinder

In reply to ben b: agree with the aeropress. a revelation. does a good job with pre-ground *& packed coffee.

In reply to Milesy:

I was given a DeLonghi one by m y wife for christmas this year. Its great. The water heats quickly and the pump is very quiet which can be very noisy on some of them.
I think its full price was around £160 but she got it reduced at about £120. Anyway im really happy with it.
The stove top espresso makers are also great and cost about £30, but i recently melted the ruber seal in mine after heating it with no water in it. (hangover)

In reply to Milesy:
Ive been using the classic for two years now and it makes a good job of frothing too. Miles better than the previous Bespeesso, which wasn't bad. There is a knack frothing !

In reply to Ybot Htulk:

My brother likes his little metal stove top espresso makers. The coffee tastes okay to my non coffee-head tastes, he's fastidious about not keeping ground coffee for too long so the taste doesn't change for the worse, and other coffee related things which are apparently important.

In reply to Milesy: Used Gaggia Classic from Ebay for less than £100, Rancilio Silva steam wand conversion kit £20, Hario ceramic burr hand grinder £40 and voila! fantastic coffee and perfect microfoam steamed milk.

In reply to Milesy: for less than the price of a new rocky you ll get a mazzer mini from ebay, the rolls royce of small grinders. i had a rocky before my mazzer and they are a world apart.

In reply to Fultonius:

Expresso expresso expresso - I feckin hate pedant's.

;-0

E

In reply to Milesy:
If you're doing espresso, then the grinder is more important than the machine. You'll get better coffee with a decent grinder and a £50 machine than you will with a £1000 machine and buying your coffee ground. I would strongly suggest that you buy the grinder first and see how much you have left for the machine.
I did quite a bit of searching the coffee snob forums and the general opinion is that: Budget Gaggia grinders are dirt. The £90 Dualit-badged one is just about acceptable when new but wears out quickly. The absolute bare minimum acceptable grinder is the Iberital MC2. I got one of those from here: http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-auto.html for about £130. It was a revelation after my £40 burr grinder. The auto version grinds straight into the portafilter, you don't want a doser at home as you end up with coffee going stale in it.
Also, I wouldn't recommend buying a budget Gaggia machine second hand. I've had two, they don't last forever and they are not economic to repair.

In reply to Fultonius:
<pedantry>
The word Espresso, as coined by Mr Gaggia, means "Coffee made expressly for the customer", as oppposed to sitting around in a pot. So as far as I'm concerned Expresso is a perfectly acceptable anglisation of the original Italian word. The French call it "Cafe Express".
Out of interest, if you insist on calling it espresso even in the UK, how do you ask for two? "Due espressi"?
</pedantry>

In reply to Hooo:
anglisation
Yes, I know

In reply to Hooo:

Thanks. F*cko of Fulton.

E

In reply to Hooo: A source please sir?

My only sources. (Google: "Espresso" "Etymology") only come up with:

1] 1945, from It. caffe espresso, from espresso "pressed out," from pp. of esprimere, from L. exprimere "press out" (see express). In reference toi>the steam pressure.

2] From Italian espresso, from caffè espresso (“pressed-out coffee”), form of esprimere (“to press out”), from Latin exprimere, from ex- (“out”) + primere (“to press”).[1]

Some sources derive the term from “expressly (‘individually, directly’) made for the customer”,[2] or as “fast” (Italian espresso also meaning “fast”, as in English express (“fast”)) but these are not widely credited.

The original term for modern espresso (coffee extracted under pressure) was cream coffee, from Italian caffè crema (variant: crema caffè), due to the crema, and was seen on early Gaggia machines, but this term is no longer used.[3]

3] 1945, from It. caffe espresso, from espresso "pressed out," from pp. of esprimere, from L. exprimere "press out"

Anyway...this all reminds me of this: http://thoughtcatalog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/mad-inter...

And on that note, I'm off to bed. 8 hours till the next ristretto :-D

In reply to Fultonius:

I like a bit of froth on top of my expresso - call it a muckyarseole.

E

In reply to Fultonius:
Source? I saw it somewhere on t'internet Of course I've made no attempt to verify it. I think that means you win.
I still think it's acceptable to anglicise it though. Insisting on using the Italian spelling is like asking for a "pain au chocolat" in Gregg's. It might be correct, but everyone just thinks you're a poser. And how do you pluralise it? Espressos is just wrong, and asking for espressi will just get you a blank look.

In reply to Hooo:

Thanks everyone.

I went for the Gaggia Classic machine, and the upgraded Happy Donkey Rancillio wand as recomended everywhere. Grinder will be next wage

In reply to Milesy: Think that was a good choice! I have one too, like all manual espresso makers it does require skill to make a good espresso but that it is half the fun. Before you get a grinder I would recommend illy coffee as I have found most other ground espresso coffees are too coursely ground and flow through too quickly.

In reply to todness:

Noooooooooooo! The illy IperEspresso system is the way to go if you want your espresso from a capsule. And it means you won't be funding Nestle to make any more of those awful adverts.

In reply to Fultonius:

The term "cafe creme" seems quite common in the Netherlands for what might elsewhere be called an Americano.

Neil

All set up. Been experimenting all night (with decaf though of course). Forgot to put in a wee plug thing and got coffee sprayed over the full kitchen. Doh.