UKC

Hi all. I have a rare night free to get out and about this bank holiday and as the weather is supposed to be so nice was thinking about a cheeky bivvi in the peak. I was looking at the Edale/Brown knoll/Kinder Scout area but I camped up their a couple of weeks ago and it was so boggy. Luckily I was in my tent so wasn't to bad. Has anyone had any experience camping out at Froggatt? Ive spent years climbing their but never seen anyone spend the night. I'll just be in a Bivvi bag and won't be building any fires or setting up any woodland raves. Just me on my own. Am I likely to be asked to move on? And does anyone have any good Bivvi spots they can recommend? Cheers 

I don't know about Froggatt, but I once bivvied on top of one of the 3 ships at Birchen. I imagine a bivvy on top of Froggatt pinnacle would be memorable.

Bivis on the Eastern Moors partnership land are not permitted. They are tolerated in numerous other places like Robin Hood Caves at Stanage and even if you did wish to bivi on their land agaisnt their wishes Froggatt would be one of the most likely places to get caught. 

Absolutely, not permitted that's a fact. Another fun fact: there's a cave at Froggatt.

If you get caught, what’s going to happen?

they will ask you to leave, you politely decline their request, and they leave.

... And come back with a bucket of cold water. 

I had a bivi at Froggatt about 12 years ago. From memory...  If you stand above downhill racer with your back to the edge there is a small wall a couple of hundred meters in front of you. Nobody would ever see you tucked behind that. No source of water though so make sure you take plenty. 

Is this a possibility...?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/climbing_morons_get_a_ban_on_mar...

Threads like this make me so glad I live in Scotland. I feel genuinely sorry for all of you who have to live with the antediluvian access laws south of the border.

Yep, although you have those same sort of rules in the Trossachs now too! It was nice when I was in Scotland a few summers ago being able to pull off the the M74 and drive up a quiet glen somewhere in the Southern Uplands and pop the tent up for a few hours kip knowing we were doing nothing wrong.

OP: the former ranger who covered that area said at a BMC meeting that he would meet climbers kipping down at Froggatt or Stanage from time to time and would always just wish them a good night or good morning. Bill has retired now, and as far as I know they haven't replaced him for budget reasons, so I'm not even sure who might potentially object, but anyway he said as long as no rubbish was left he didn't mind in the slightest. I've bivvied on top of Stanage and Bamford a few times and no one seemed to care. I tend to go late in the evening and make sure I'm off reasonably early. Froggatt is slightly lower and potentially slightly busier but I bet you can find somewhere in the woods and no one will notice you.

Thanks for all the advice chaps. I ended up parking up in Edale and walking up to the top of Brown Knoll then off the path to the eastern edge. It was absolutely perfect conditions for a bivy. I ended up not even needing a Bivi bag as it was to warm. Now I know about the ranger retiring I will probably chance it up at Frogatt next time. 

I wild camped the West Highland Way over 4 nights in February, and the sense of freedom is so nice. To be able to just pitch up and not worry is brilliant. I even managed to camp next to Loch Lomand as it was just before the start of the restriction season. There are so many nice places in England to camp, but your always looking over your shoulder and it does ruin it a bit.

Set up late, leave early and respect the land around you. If you're doing it right you won't be disturbed and will have a lovely peaceful sleep with a morning sunrise to look forward too. Enjoy! 

Excellent use of antediluvian :-D 

I always slept in the cave, it used to be pretty clean. This was 20 years ago though. Few beers in the grouse then walk back and sleep in the cave.

Indeed. Make sure you stay tied in all night though

You watch, there will be a deluge of people using it now.

The new ranger spoke for a bit at the last area meeting, he seems like a thoroughly reasonable bloke from what he was saying, the role is funded for 1 year I think, hopefully this will be extended.

Bill was the Stanage Ranger and bivis have always been tolerated in the Robin Hood Caves, as I said. He was nothing to do with Froggatt.  The landowners set their rules and with the Eastern Moors Partnership there are concerns about numerous things that mean they don't want people there at night, from disturbing the wildlife or flora, to litter or fire risk.  If we want to retain good relations,  people shouldn't be encouraged by climbers to bivi there. If you get caught you get moved on... not much fun when you are set up or asleep. Climbers currently have a fabulous relationship with the Eastern Moors Partnership so why damage that when  there are many better bivis across the Peak area?

I'm trying to think who it was if it wasn't Bill, maybe another ranger because he specifically mentioned Froggatt. 

They've got you right where they want you, a climber telling other climbers not to do something that will have pretty much zero impact on the land for fear of having access further curtailed.

A fabulous relationship you say but to me it just sounds like begging for scraps from the top table.

Hard to say. Bill was Stanage ranger until last year and at last they have a replacement for him (introduced at the  last Peak Area meeting). There has never  been a ranger who could comment on both areas.

In reply to Dave Kerr.

I think that view is childish.  I've trespassed more than most in the services of Peak and other guides and dealt with all sorts of landowners and and management groups and  Eastern Moors Partnership (EMP)  is one of the best and with a good 'landowner' basic pragmatism is sensible. EMP look after everything from Yarncliffe to Birchen: a series of very important crags to the national climbing population. They have maintained sensible arrangements, including any bird bans properly negotiated with the BMC access team and not just imposed (remember the RSBP co owns with NT) and have done all sorts of climbing sympathetic work including birch clearance below the edge where routes were becoming very green. We lobby together. Kim from EMP attends pretty much every area meeting and posts here (including this week). People ignore these sorts of rules all the time and individual climbers and hillwalkers are left to help and where the mess is especially bad, clean-ups are organised to deal with the result.