UKC

Grid Magnetic Angle

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Katy44 11 Dec 2005
After a discussion whilst out walking we couldn't come up with the answer so wondered if anyone else can help us out.

Given that the GMA changes every year and is currently getting smaller by about 3 mils each year, does this mean that 100 or so years ago the GMA was about 350 mils? And also once we go past 0 in not so many years time will the saying 'Grid to Mag add, Mag to Grid get rid' have to change to the opposite. It confuses me because surely after a certain number of years the difference could be that magnetic north is actually east when compared to grid north? Or is there a limit that it reaches before it stops taking effect or starts coming back again?

Ok, I don't really get it myself but anyone that could shed some light it would be very much appreciated!
Profanisaurus Rex 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

I don't believe it carries on going - it oscillates around true north, so at some point mag north and grid north will be the same, then it will swing the other way, so we will have to say "grid to mag, get rid, etc etc".

I think it's because the earth's rotation / orbit has a little wobble.

Disclaimer - this may be complete twaddle, it is half-remembered from O-level geography. Which should give you an idea how long ago it was.....
 astrecks 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

As swiped from my webpage! :

GRID NORTH.

The vertical gridlines on an O.S. map are a consequence of trying to represent the spherical shape of the earth on a flat sheet of paper. In order for these gridlines to meet at the poles, in the case of the northern hemisphere, the lines at the bottom of the map would be further apart than those at the top. Adjoining maps would be difficult to produce. For this reason, the gridlines are parallel and therefore the land as represented on the map is actually a distorted view, which in the case of larger scale maps is negligible.

MAGNETIC NORTH.

Magnetic north changes over time due to the earth’s molten core which in basic terms "sloshes" about due to forces exerted upon it by the climatic conditions, the gravitational effects of the moon and magnetic influences of solar flares, local variations have to be taken into account, for example the Cuillin Hills in the Isle of Skye have a high iron ore content and due to its volcanic formation can have an effect on magnetic variation. Magnetic variation is predicted by several international organisations, International Geomagnetic Reference Field, being one such organisation.

When using a compass we have to know how to calculate the difference between GRID NORTH and MAGNETIC NORTH, and when to add or subtract this variation. This depends on two things:-


Whether magnetic north is west or east of grid north & whether you are transferring bearings from map to terrain or terrain to map.


1. When using a map, the saying "West is best, east is least" meaning if magnetic north is west of grid north then ADD the variation and if magnetic north is east of grid north then SUBTRACT.


2. When transferring a bearing taken on a landmark the reverse of the above is true.


An O.S. map tells you what the difference will be at a given year and in what direction magnetic north is moving, e.g. :-

"Magnetic north is estimated at five and a half degrees west of grid north for 1993 decreasing by about a half degree in three years" (refer to No. 1. Above)

This means that in 1996 magnetic north would be five degrees west of grid north and in 1999 four and a half degrees west of grid north and so on. These half degrees are not critical unless you were travelling great distances on a bearing only. As the markings on most compass bezels are at two degree intervals it is easier to round down to the nearest whole degree.


If you are going to use an old map, say more than twenty years old then it would be better to calculate the magnetic variation yourself, as magnetic variation doesn’t change at a constant rate and its movement can speed up or slow down, the original estimated movement maybe well out. This can be done if you know your exact position and can identify a landmark in the distance which you can locate on your map. Take a bearing on the object and note the reading. Using your compass as a protractor, do the same on your map, the difference between the two readings is the magnetic variation. The further away your chosen landmark is, the more accurate the variation figure will be.

http://www.astrecks.co.uk/navigation.htm

Jeff
Katy44 11 Dec 2005
In reply to astrecks:

Ok so will it continue to move in the one direction or does Magnetic north start coming back again at some point? Apparently according to Wikipedia the magnetic north moves in an ellipse, and it's moved 1100km in the last 100 years so will this continue for another 100 years in the same direction?

I know it'll make no difference to my navigation but just made me think whilst out walking and wondered if anyone out there knew?
 astrecks 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

Wikipedia doesn't always give the definative answer

Maybe this will help

http://home.att.net/~agligani/navigation/magnetic.htm

Jeff.
Rob Reglinski 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:


err no.

the system is not planer like all of the maps and other book basics suggest you have to imagine a line through a ball (pole to earth)

one line is fixed (spin axis) and the other wanders (magnetic axis) the wander is apparently random however some people belive there to be a general spiral. when i saw the data there was nothing conculsive.

our magnetic feild dosnt change at 3 mil/a thats is just a fuzzy map estimate (although good to a few orders of mag' and therefore good enough for us mortals) and will be revised every year by the geophyisics crew.

eaths magnatism is not a dipole. at its simplest it resembles a quadrapole although even that statement is very very wrong in my mind

second intresting fact is that grid north is really geomagnetic south.

back to my cave
Rob Reglinski 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

the var' also depends on your lat and long on the globe
 astrecks 11 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

Wikipedia may well be correct to say magnetic north has moved 1100kms in 100 years, but not necessarily in the same direction. As the previous poster said, it is random and variation is monitored contantly.

When deciding if to add or subtract MV from the map it is good to remember "West is Best add and East is Least subtract", that way there can be no confusion.

Jeff.
Iain Forrest 12 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:
Magnetic North and Magnetic South also swap completely every few hundred thousand years or so (not regularly). What happens during the swapover period is poorly understood, and we don't really know log the swap takes. Could cause a bit of chaos if it happens tomorrow!
 beardy mike 12 Dec 2005
In reply to Rob Reglinski: "second intresting fact is that grid north is really geomagnetic south."

You can't just say something like that and then leave us all in suspense - come on - spill...
tmh 12 Dec 2005
In reply to mike kann:

I think he means that the earth's north pole is actually a magnetic south pole, which is why the north pole of your compass needle is attracted to it.

For the pedantic I believe the correct way to refer to the poles of a magnet is 'North-seeking' or 'South-seeking'...
 beardy mike 12 Dec 2005
In reply to tmh: Ahhhhh. I see what he means. Now that IS pedantic... as long as my compass points in the right direction don't really mind
Aimless King 12 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44: I nearly managed to get into a lot of bother during a navigation exercise in Canada a few years ago by blithly applying my "grid-to-mag-add" rule (like you say, drummed in, won't forget it) without realising that magnetic north was East of grid north over there, not west like it is here in the uk! Realised when things weren't looking right, then felt very stupid!
In reply to Katy44:

The folowing link shows a good diagram of the erratic way the magnetic pole has changed direction and sped up and slowed down over time.

http://gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/geomag/nmp/long_mvt_nmp_e.php

So the most practical thing to do is go by the calculation it says on the most recent map, and bear in mind that it's the map makers best guesstimate based on recent information.
Matt R Horn 12 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44:

To see the magnetic pole positions since 600AD go to http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/archy/los_hornos/paleo_m...
As you can see, it moves around in a very random fashion.
 Dave Stelmach 12 Dec 2005
In reply to MaxB: Wobbly rotation - precession
jasper20mill 12 Dec 2005
In reply to Katy44: this might help
http://www.threelittlemaids.co.uk/magdec/explain.html

also this util might be useful but im unsure as to its accuracy

http://www.threelittlemaids.co.uk/magdec/index1.html - it only seems to work in Internet explorer.

Cheers

Andrew

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...