UKC

I'm pretty sure I've got the correct answer for this, but just wanted to run it by the hive mind before I file it away.

My parents were tenants in common of their house.  My mother died a few weeks ago (not unexpectedly - a decades long battle with MS followed by a very short battle with cancer) and we're helping dad through the admin.  Her will stipulates that her share of the house be held in trust whilst my dad lives, and then upon his death both their parts be split among me and my siblings.  I understand this is a sensible way to avoid the entire house being taken into account, should dad need a care home in the future.

Question: do we need to inform the Land Registry right now?  We're reasonably sure the answer is no, they only need to be told when there is a need to update the registry (ie when the house is sold) and for now no action is needed.  I'd just like to have that confirmed by someone who understands the system a little better than I do.

Sorry to hear about your mother.  
 

You don’t need to immediately inform the land registry but you do need to transfer the property into the names of your dad and you and your siblings.  This is done by assent for which you’ll need a grant of probate.  You won’t need a trust deed as her will will serve as that.  There’s no need to inform the land registry ahead of any assent application (and you wouldn’t get hold of anybody to speak to anyway)

I see people not doing this for the reasons you suggest but it will save a bit of aggro down the line (if for example you do sell the property within your dad’s lifetime).  Your mum won’t be able to sign any transfer documentation and you end up having to deal with the issue of assent at that time which could delay a sale.

Quite a detailed reply from the LR here:

https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/forums/general-info-and-guidance/5....

I would say quite a lot depends on you and your siblings, whether you get on well, and exactly what the will stipulates, for example if the trustees and the beneficiaries are the same. You will also need to think about the tax situation. If in doubt, get some advice, keep everything as simple as possible, and keep your dad and siblings in the loop, ideally with phone calls or face to face.

I can't comment on the previous reply as I have no experience of that.

Say what?? Why should the property be transferred into the names of the beneficiaries? They’re not the holders of the legal title.

To the OP: who are the trustees?

jcm

Sorry - I thought the siblings were the trustees (which they might be)

Thanks, all.  Freeflyer - that's exactly the page that has made me think that just leaving everything alone for now is the correct thing to do.  But I have also read conflicting suggestions that I need to inform the LR that she's died via form DJP, or possibly transfer her ownership via form TR1.  But as far as I can tell TR1 transfers the whole title? The correct position now should be that my father continues to own 1/2, whilst I, my brother and sister each own 1/6.

John, the trustees are the three siblings.  The executors, if that matters, are the three siblings plus dad.

We all get on perfectly well and there's no hint of acrimony; just want to get the paperwork done as efficiently as possible!

I did a little more digging, and in your position I would consider following gazhbo's advice in some form. 

You have a variety of options including the ones you discuss, however one possibility would be to check your father's will, and if it does what you need (1/3 each to siblings) then the trustees can use the assent procedure to transfer the property to your dad. The LR seems relaxed about whether a TR1 or AS1 gets used.

In any case a good plan would be to get on with resolving your mum's estate and getting probate for that - should hopefully be straightforward.

Ask your father to consider getting financial and health LPAs if you haven't already done that.

I know the contents of his will - it's an exact mirror of mum's. 

My concern about transferring the whole property to him is that if he did end up needing care, wouldn't that open up the possibility of the whole of the house being used to fund his care?

In this case, perhaps I need to use form AS3 to transfer part of the title to each of the three of us?

It seems we don't need probate; the estate is small, and the only significant asset is her half of the house.  I don;t thnk AS1 or AS3 require probate?

Yep.  We didn't have the F LPA for mum and it did cause a small kerfuffle (all dealt with now).  When the dust has settled we'll get these in place for dad.

Good point! Sorry, in my pre-occupation with keeping things simple, I overlooked that. You need to avoid 'deliberate deprivation of assets', so doing the transfer early in the way you suggest may help with that.

I don't know anything much about the assent process I'm afraid. Despite other posters' pessimism, you could call LR, and if you get through my experience is that they are very helpful with the specifics of procedure, but clearly won't advise on anything legal.

TR1 is also used to transfer a property from joint names into different joint names, but technically you need an assent rather than a transfer, so a AS1 or AS3.

I thought that you need probate to administer an estate, irrespective of size, if there is a Will. You might be able to deal with certain bits without the grant (closing accounts etc) but ultimately you’ll need one.  I might be wrong about this. 

 I would just instruct a conveyancing solicitor (a real one rather than an internet one) to deal with the assent, even if you do everything else yourselves.  As an isolated piece of work it won’t be expensive and they’ll be able to tell you exactly what stage it needs to be done.  The land registry is a absolute bastard to deal with as a lay person and their ID and money laundering requirements are so onerous that it will end up costing you hundreds of pounds just to prove you are who you say you are.
 

Ah... I now think that we wouldn't need probate if the house had been owned as joint tenants (because ownership would automatically have passed to dad as the surviving joint tenant), but because it was owned as tenants in common we will need probate (because she can, and indeed has, bequeathed it in her will).  Bugger.  I'll add that to the to-do list then.