UKC

heading home to a slight "situation" tonight, my middle age son who lives with me totally out of character decided on his own without consulting me to get some random guy who lives near us to do our garden, cut grass and some strimming. it seems this is a cash in hand job for some guy who's retired and does some gardening for some spare cash but not a proper business.

he just called to say that while strimming he's managed to break a full glass pane on the French doors at the back of the house, 6 ft double glazed unit.

now the doors are pretty new  and I haven't informed my insurance company that they have been fitted in place of where a window was, stupid of me but its one of those things I meant to get round to but didn't, so im assuming I wont be covered, and I don't think I've got accidental damage anyway.

so considering it was him thinking he was doing me a favour which is kind of out of character for him what would you do now.

try and get the guy who damaged it to pay ( he seems to be a retired bloke with not that kind of cash I suspect, get my son to pay for it and let him know no good deed goes unpunished, or take it on the chin and shell out hundreds myself for a job I never asked or approved to get done in the first place.

what would you do ?

 

In reply to buzby:

All 3 of you donate 33% of the cost?

Can't think of any other remotely fair way out of it.

In reply to buzby:

I think if your son has money I'd get him to pay at least some of it and/or make him ask the bloke to pay.  He shouldn't have arranged anything without asking you and needs to learn why cash in hand is cheaper than someone with insurance.  I wouldn't dream of arranging something in my parents home without asking them.  

I can't imagine your insurance company knows the ins and outs of your window layouts.  So it may be worth checking.  

 

In reply to buzby:

Why would you need to inform your insurance company you had a new door fitted.

In reply to Moley:

 

Hmmmm, hadn't thought of that, may be the fairest way all round I guess.

 

In reply to buzby:

If it was me I would place more than 50% of the blame on my son: to be honest I would let him come up with the cash for repairs, possibly involving him asking the "random guy" to make a contribution

That's just me of course

Good luck

Edit, I wrote this before reading marsbar's reply

In reply to webbo:

its one of the questions on the original form, how many windows and doors do you have in your house? I've now got one less window and one extra door, the French doors were fitted where a window used to be.

In reply to buzby:

If a random odd job chap armed with no more than a little strimmer managed to break a double glazing unit,  I would suspect a sub standard glazing unit.  Have you ever tried to smash in double glazing?  You need a lot of heft behind a small point.  No harm in going to the installers under warranty, although I imagine they’ve gone banrukpt and opened under a new name by now.

Perhaps the window was broken in a row over the bill in some drug fuelled orgy, and this is all an elaborate concoction to cover for it?

In reply to buzby:

I don’t think I have ever been asked that in over 30 years of buying  house insurance. Stuff like do you have a burglar alarm or do you have window locks.

 

In reply to wintertree:

A little strimmer broke the glass in my (literally) hurricane proof front door (it’s on Skye). Mender said he spends all day fixing strimmer-shatter

In reply to BnB:

Clearly an experiment is called for.  Was this with a projectile stone, the strimmer line or a smash with a hot engine exhaust?

In reply to wintertree:

Stones come out of the strimming head pretty damn quick. I’ve tested it to the tune of £350 for a new bulletproof pane (happily insured) You have a go

In reply to wintertree:

I’ve just been home and found it’s both 6 ft panes of glass. It was indeed stone shatter. I’ve got loads of small gravel sized stones and it looks like he’s tried to strim the weeds in that area instead of pulling them out. Anyway he’s contacted a company already and the guys been out and measured up for 2 new panes. He’s offered to pay the lot so I think I will have to contribute half. Done a few homers myself over the years when I wasn’t working so I’ve got some sympathy. 

In reply to buzby:

Possibly pay the bill yourself and tell your son that it’s coming out of his inheritance. 

It’s not the end of the world and your son was trying to be helpful( although more helpful if he’d done the work his self).

The retired bloke probably is beside his self with remorse at an accident, but.....you have to live with any animosity in the neighbourhood. 

In reply to buzby: I would perhaps only accept a third from the retired fellow, and maybe look meaningfully at your son when telling him this too? In his situation and with a meaningful look from my own Dad, I'd feel honour bound to start offering to possibly pay the rest....

 

In reply to buzby:

It's no where near as expensive as you think.

Look on here, measure it up and see price....  (you'll need spec of old door glass to get a perfect match and if you have tinting etc it'll add a few quid). Just measured my patio door 1800hx500w for toughened 4mm glass and 20mm gap £67

https://www.sealedunitsonline.co.uk/regular/default.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAjwxILd...

Fit it yourself - it's a piece of piss:

youtube.com/watch?v=JHmAsTCf1LA&

 

Edit just seen he's had someone out... don't get ripped off!

In reply to Dave the Rave:

yep apparently the guy was about ready to keel over and his wife turned up in tears so a 3 way split sounds fair I guess. dearest garden tidy up I've ever had.lol.

In reply to buzby:

Go and tell them it’s fine and that you and your son will sort it, before it’s too late!!! Karma and all that

In reply to buzby:

Woman across road from me had double glazed window broken by gardener using a strimmer. Gardener wasn't insured. Agreed to pay half each. Don't know if that helps you to make up your mind. You strike me as a decent guy.

In reply to buzby:

Why don't you talk to your son instead of a bunch of strangers? 

In reply to buzby:

Tangentially related anecdote:

Me and my family were sitting in a national trust cafe while one of their employees cut the grass outside.  They were on a sit-on lawn-mower, on a raised lawn about shoulder-level.  As it went past on the gravel path, a little stone shot out from under the tyre, smashed a tiny hole in the window pane and sent a radiply expanding cone of glass-shrapnel right across the room.  Some hit my wife in the neck, other bits showered tiny glass flakes down on our children, and some went in my tea.

The national trust people were very good about it and made me a fresh pot.

In reply to buzby:

Very generous of you. If someone was doing a job for me for money and they smashed my windows I wouldn't be expecting to put my hand in my pocket. Their problem.

However, note that you've got French windows, not doors. Try and claim it on the insurance and get him to pay the excess, or some part of that if you're feeling generous.

In reply to BnB:

Well, I had been worrying that I was taking Brexit prep to extremes but hey...

The double glazed conservatory is falling apart, I’ll try and remember to strimmer it when the time comes...

In reply to BnB:

Many, many years ago I was strimming over gravel and broke two windows in a subaru. Lesson learnt the hard way!

In reply to Removed User:

I guess a neighbour who is distraught after having done an odd job for one's son, is possibly different to hiring a professional trades person?

 

 

In reply to BnB:

I took a hit from a stone out of a strimmer while cycling down the road as a kid. The gardener was on the other side of the two-lane road. I won't go near those things, today -- they're f*cking lethal.

Probably the only piece of gardening equipment that I hate more than leaf blowers. I can well believe that they break windows all the time. They probably claim eyes, too.

In reply to wintertree:

We've had two glazing units broken in our new offices, both times by small stones flung by strimmers. We've now banned strimmers near the windows...

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Wow - been quoted £200 fitted for a 2'x3' replacement double-glazed unit to replace the one on the garage door my wife had to smash when our 2-y-o locked her in by mistake! That website says £40!

In reply to captain paranoia:

I’ve learnt something from this thread!  I’m now starting to wonder just how bad an injury I could get from a stone when strinming...

In reply to buzby:

I would think that you of the outcomes you might want to keep in mind is to encourage your son to be a bit more engaged in running the household.  If the message he gets is that any attempt to help results in disaster (and your disapproval whatever the outcome) then he'll lapse back into learned helplessness and do even less.

Are you more annoyed about the cost of what was, after all, an unforeseen (despite the amount of very wise after the event advice posted here) and unlikely accident (for which you might even be insured), or the fact that your son did something without discussing it with you?  If he had asked you, would you really have checked the insurance of the handyman/gardener - would the outcome have been any different?

Of course, in an ideal world, your son would have discussed it with you first.  Why didn't he? 

In reply to buzby:

Sealed units aren't actually that expensive, even quite big ones. Hope you get it sorted with minimal stress for all involved. The insurer won't know what you have window wise, if you have accidental cover it might just be worth claiming after the excess.

jk

In reply to buzby:

The old guy should have known better, but the guilt is enough. You pay and tell the old boy it was from insurance. Recoup the funds from your son in kind as he will now do all the gardening for free. 

In reply to wintertree:

Full face plastic visor, gloves.... is the trick. If you do enough something will find a way around the guards or bounce off something else upwards eventually. 

In reply to buzby:

i just want to say you sound like a decent and kind bloke, your son is very lucky and while it sounds like this kindness may cost you I have found that things like this bring value far in excess of the money in terms of mental well being.

Good luck.

Toby

 

In reply to captain paranoia:

I guess looking at the direction they rotate and aiming away from windows could be a plan? You've got to know the stones won't hit anything or anybody else, of course. I reckon I'll contact the conservation grounds I've volunteered for and pass the thing about stone on, it's not come up in any risk assessments and things. I don't think it's ever been experienced. 

In reply to buzby:

Can I vote against claiming on the insurance.  Then it's just the rest of us who'll end up paying for it through increased premiums.  Suggest it's split in some proportion (all/some/none) between the three (you/your son/the gardner) of you, with you son paying the larger share (e.g. 40%/30%/30%): son should bear some of the responsibility, so should the gardner, and you can lessen the load by paying part as a goodwill gesture.

 

In reply to yorkshire_lad2:

Not really.  Either he's covered or he isn't.  Unless it wasn't accidental, or he's so loaded that he doesn't care about the cost, why wouldn't he claim?  What's the point of insurance you are too socially responsible ever to use?!

 

In reply to buzby:

Your son has to deal with it. He employed the person strimming.  The person strimming actually caused the damage thus should repair it to your son's satisfaction out of their pocket / insurance. If they were not insured that's their lookout.

In reply to Toerag:

Not when it's an odd jobbing neighbour and they're distraught, and their wife is too, and his son didn't check first. That makes it more his son's fault - at the root of things. It could happen to a home owner just as easily, and it's about neighbourly relations too. 

In reply to yorkshire_lad2:

The cost to the insurance industry of one claim by the OP, spread over all that company's premiums, will be negligible. You might not use the same insurance company anyway.

Or are you suggesting that nobody should claim anything on their insurance, so as to reduce premiums for us all? That way we can pay less, but get nothing in return.

If the OPs insurance covers the damage has every right to make a claim.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

considering travel time, fitting, overheads (tools etc.) that's a very reasonable quote.

In reply to buzby:

I've had a 6ft conservatory window broken twice over the years by stone.damage. 

Insurance claim both times, no drama, about £350. Insurance company didn't bat an eyelid and my premiums didn't rise. 

Why don't you ask them?

In reply to Timmd:

Ermmm... the fact that they rotate means that there is always the chance of a stone being flung towards a window; either 'coming' or 'going'.

One way to reduce the risk is to work with your back to the window, so that the guard ought to stop stones flying towards the window. But, as summo says, eventually a stone will find its way through...

In reply to captain paranoia:

It could lessen the chance if one 'sweeps' with it in a particular way, but you're right. 

Probably. 

 

In reply to buzby:

I would ask the person operating the strimmer (and therefore the business) to pay. The fact that your son hired him is irrelevant. If I hired a gardener to do some work for me or if I was doing work for someone and there was a breakage then whomever was responsible should pay. I have used strimmers and they are great at flinging all sorts of stuff out. Anyone using a strimmer should be aware of this.

In reply to buzby:

got the price for replacing both units, its just under £200 so im going to pay it myself with my son chipping in some of it. some of the neighbours got to hear about it and apparently he does their gardens form time to time and seems very well liked and respected.

im surprised I don't know him but having now spoken to his him and his wife he was looking to try and borrow money to pay for it and seems very genuine to me. he still wanted to pay but it was obvious he doesn't really have it.I could clearly see they were both extremely stressed out about it.

we've agreed I will pay it and he can do the garden a few times next summer on his rounds for free, minus the strimmer of course.

In reply to buzby:

Good deal but don't let him anywhere near a chainsaw.

In reply to buzby:

It's a trick - poor old retired man's son owns a glazing business. You are the 5th on your road this summer. You'll get no change from £500 JOKE.

In reply to buzby:

Your son should be dealing with this as it wouldn't have happened had he not employed the guy.

How old is your middle aged son anyway?

In reply to buzby:

"Chipping in" - good pun - deliberate?

In reply to daWalt:

May have misreadthat. 

£200 seems extremely good if time travel is involved.