UKC

Looking to go away with a friend for a weekend in Peak District and was shocked to see that the YHA in Edale charges £16(!) per night bed only.

Is anybody else surprised at this?

I think once you've paid £5 for breakfast, you're not far off the cost of a B&B.

Makes me wonder tho, what's happened to the YHA? Has it lost it's way or am I just over-reacting?

A rather puzzled 2pints/

In reply to 2pints:

We just got back from a couple of days in Llangollen - b & b in a very pleasant hotel, with large en-suite room and full English - £20 each. Sounds like the YHA are having a larrf!

Chris

In reply to 2pints:

No you are not over reacting. I was a member of the YHA but the organisation appears to have lost touch with its origins.

I can book a beautiful cottage in the Lakes that sleeps 7 for £120 for three nights. You do the sums. Six people at £16 a night for three nights in a YHA hostel.

Maths isn't my strong point but isn't that £288 !

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Do you know anything around Hathersage/Edale way?

We're on public transport so it has to be in that area!

Rather not camp...

In reply to 2pints: yes they have

In reply to 2pints:
B&B's are often cheaper and in better locations ...

they have closed down and sold off a few around us ...

Think Edale makes more out of courses in respect of ease of delivery rather than the hosteler model .. independent hostels are pretty good value and are owned and run by owners rather than managers..

http://www.independenthostelguide.co.uk/

well worthy of a stay

In reply to 2pints:

Compared to when?

In reply to 2pints:

Does anyone know if Thorpe Farm lets out individual beds for only 2 blokes on a weekend or does it do groups only?

In reply to 2pints:

http://www.fyne.co.uk/index.php?item=271

In reply to winhill:

Sick bastard.

Neither of us are gay, we just happen to be two good friends from University...

In reply to 2pints:

Sorry - living in Sheffield means we don't over-night in the Peak!

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: ooh, ooh, can you let me know where it was?, I'm always looking for a good B&B for mates that don't like the idea of sleeping on the narrowboat

In reply to 2pints:

Soz, just googled peak district cottaging for you.

In reply to winhill:
LOL!

OP:
£20 odd quid a night B&B isn't going to be brilliant is it? Clean bed and a eatable brekie maybe? thats what you get at YHA. Credit crunch and all, i think its reasonable at 16 bed only. They are warm, clean and use as much gas etc as you want to cook and dry clothes.
I'd not YHA'd for years but stayed at the SYHA in Glencoe last year for 3 nights. Paid about the same, thought it was excelent.
Then moved to Fort William and stayed at my usual haunt Bank Street lodge. Thats slightly cheaper but they can generally forecast their income. Centre of the walking/biking/sking/climbing and all that...
Gonna stop pushing Bank Street - Its always gonna be full when I wanna go!

In reply to Jonno:

I'm always looking for accommodation for 6 to 7 can you let me know where and how to contact this beautiful cottage in the Lakes. Send me an email if you dont want to share far and wide.
Cheers
Baz

In reply to Jonno:






Aye but do you get the resident weirdo thrown in like you do at the YHA?

In reply to Ian Black: THe Backpackers Hostels are a far better bet. The one I just booked ay Ilfracombe is £12 a night with free tea, coffee etc a TV lounge and free interenet acceess. Last time I was there in May they were fairly empty so I got an en-suite room to myself.
http://www.backpackers.co.uk/

In reply to 2pints: I think YHA suffer from having to pay their staff properly now.

In reply to 2pints:

I think you are living in a dream world - B&Bs in Edale & Hope valley are not cheap this time of year at weekends (c. £40-£60 pp/pn) and are fairly thin on the ground. Plus most (during high season) make you book fri & sat night at weekends..

The YHA in Peak are good value given location.

In reply to blanchie14c:


The last bed and breakfast I stayed at cost £14 each, including a giant full english in the morning, and it was great. We couldn't have asked for any more. The lady who ran it was very kind and always happy to help, and we'll certainly be going back.

In reply to oooaaah:

Was that in Edale or Hope Valley though?

In reply to 2pints:
Stay in the bunkhouse at Pindale farm, Hope, £10 each per night, plus a quid or 2 for the electric.

Bunkhouses or club huts are the way to go

In reply to 2pints:

Ye you can, me and a mate stayed there on SPA assesment, rang them about 8 at night saying we'd like to show up about 10 if that would be atall possible, and she said ye fine, told us which bit would be open, and to come and pay in the morning. There were 2 mountain bikers in the downstairs room, so the 2 of us had the upstairs to ourselves

In reply to oooaaah: I'd be interested to know where this is. In my experience £20 - 25 per person is the norm at the lower end of the scale.

In reply to Ian McNeill: And the YHA are not very accomadating. Friends were booked onto a course at Edale. The Youth Hostel wouldn't let them book an extra bed for a non-course friend in the same room (Would have to stay seperatly) and don't allow small (3yr) children when they have other groups in.

In reply to ceri:

That, in my opinion, is a most excellent rule.

In reply to 2pints:

A typical UKC thread in which the posters whinge about the price of something without considering the cost of providing it and can't even be bothered to do the most basic research.
From the YHA website <http://www.yha.org.uk/about-yha/corporate-information/history_of_the_yha.as...

The customer base changed so the YHA had to to change or die.That meant providing a better service which meant a higher price.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Indeed.

Those bearded weirdos who wander round the dorms with no pants on don't come cheap.

In reply to toad:

Abbey Grange Hotel, about three miles north of Llangollen on the Mold road.


Chris

In reply to 2pints:

I don't mind the prices. I don't mind the facilities. I don't mind the pantless beardies. What I do mind is the fact that chavscum are using YHA hostels as cheap holiday accommodation. The last time I went hostelling (Hartington, two years ago) it was full of pissed-up folks who were complaining about people getting up before half-past-bleeding-eight and rustling maps during Eastenders. One tattooed knuckle-dragger took me to task on the fact that we had got there on foot and not in a car as he needed a lift down to the village and we were walking down to the pub, not driving. I use B&Bs now, they seem to be more friendly for walkers than YHAs these days.

In reply to Clarence: To be fair that should suit 2pints what with him being a gay hating BNP sympathiser...

In reply to KeithW (LMC):


Last time I was in one it was a german who believed in the existance of dragons

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Compared to about 5-6 years ago when they were actually a decent organization for offering cheap walker/climber friendly accommodation in out of the way places.
This was of course before they decided that they should become yet another crap "city hostel" organization at the expense of their core business. Hence shutting down rather useful hostels in walking areas in order to fund yet another refit of er, St Pancras YHA...

In reply to Postmanpat:

Oh well there we go, an unbiased view of it all, yes so the people that effectively did a Beeching on the service write 500 words saying why what they did was all fine. Give me a break.

In reply to speekingleesh:

No bias. Just aq suggestion that the OP does some research.It doesn't require 500 words. Eight will do."They wouldn't exist if they hadn't changed."

The OP should know that if he bothers to raise the point. If he or you think they should have changed in a different way or even would have preferred that they died then it's down to you to explain how or why.

In reply to speekingleesh:

you do know the Y in YHA stands for youth - just you come across as old and grumpy

In reply to Postmanpat:

This quite simply isn't true. Ireland and Scotland manage to sustain a youth hostel system far more like the old English model quite happily.

With foot and mouth the YHA were faced with a choice on how to meet their deficit. They could either close about 30 rural hostels or one big city one. They chose the former. This fundamentally went against the ethos of the organization, it alienated a lot of its core membership and turned it from a organization that primarily relied repeat business to one that almost entirely relies on one-off visits.

In reply to es:


Well spotted, I'm irritated about the fact that what used to be a really good resource for getting out into the hills in England and Wales has been totally subverted. And your point was?

In reply to 2pints: Prices went up as expectations by most people are different now. Even student accommodation these days is often en-suite whereas in my day we thought we were lucky to have an outside toilet that was unfrozen for less than 4 months a year.Most people won't put up with basic anymore. Campsites are more expensive as they are expected to have showers etc rather than just a cold tap in the corner of the field. Someone has to pay for what some ( I exclude myself) consider to be progress.

In reply to speekingleesh:

The SYHA is not any cheaper. A quick look at booking a bed in say Glen Nevis or Glen Coe for a night in June was much the same as Edale. So are they ripping people off too?

In reply to Postmanpat:


ermm it was until they changed it.

from

“To help all, especially young people of limited means, to a greater knowledge, love and care of the countryside, particularly by providing hostels or other simple accommodation for them in their travels, and thus to promote their health, rest and education.”
to

“To help all, especially young people of limited means, to a greater knowledge, love and care of the countryside, and appreciation of the cultural values of towns and cities, particularly by providing youth hostels or other accommodation for them in their travels, and thus to promote their health recreation and education.”

from the good old wikipedia, i guess they could be lying.

In reply to speekingleesh:

Like it or not the big city locations account for the bulk of visitors. The ones that were disposed off were either loss making or too expensive to bring up the standards required nowadays by their visitors.

In reply to Postmanpat: You didn't actually read the link you posted did you?

I quote verbatum

"Richard Shirrman wanted to give young people living in cities the chance to get out in the fresh air, to explore the countryside and to have a break from their dismal surroundings."

The YHA was explicitly founded to enable young people to have access to basic cheap accomidation in the countryside. Providing cheap tourist accomidation in cities for stoned (sorry I belive the approved euphimism is "laid back") Austrailian backpackers is not what the YHA was or should be about.

The only real point they ever had was that they were cheap. Once the price for 2 starts moving up into the realms where you can get B+B's they have lost their point.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Right, from my window I can see three large city YHA's, it would take me about 45 mins to walk the circuit. In a 4 mile radius of where I am there are in total 6 YHA's. I know from having stayed in some of these they operate with a fair amount of spare capacity at any one time. Now given there only competition at the price levels they charge are fairly scummy independent hostels they could close one of these down, save the running costs, liquidize the land asset and probably not lose very much in the way of custom.

>The ones that were disposed off were either loss making or too expensive >to bring up the standards required nowadays by their visitors.

To view the small rural hostels as totally loss making rather misses the point that it is essentially a network. The small rural hostels (where there often is no alternative) get people to join your organization and experience it, making them more likely to use it again when they go somewhere else. You are aiming to break even across the whole network, this does not necessarily require you to break even at every hostel.

The standards argument doesn't hold up as it was a rather misguided attempt to apply a "minimum standard" across the whole system that was just too high. You don't need three-star rating if your hostel is in the middle of nowhere and has no competition.

In reply to Horse:

No they are using the honey pots to subsidize the entire network, just in Scotland the honey pots are not necessarily in big city's. Hence I could stay on the Isle of Harris for only a tenner, as opposed the English YHA which would have just shut it down.

In reply to speekingleesh:

The YHA had record visitor numbers in the 90s but were still loosing money. The buildings that had been gifted were inefficient and uneconomical and they didn't get donations of estate like they had in previous decades.

It was the cost of maintaining the estate that was the real problem.

If they could have carried on without changing anything then they would have.

Mind you, a lot of people complain that it is high prices that are killing off pubs, but they are not generally the people who use the pubs or understand the maths.

In reply to speekingleesh:

Like Black Sail?

In reply to davidwright:

As long ago as 1993 the YHA changed the terms to include towns and cities.Its focus remains on youth. Quite simply,the market changed and the horizons of youth grew.In 1930 nobody dreamt of teenagers travelling the world. It seems very narrow minded to pretend that youth of the 21st century should be catered for in the same way as their grandparents.

Either way,the imperative was to end the financial deficits and to bring the facilities up to 21st century standards.Selling their most profitable assets would surely have been a short sighted approach.

In reply to winhill:

I don't follow. Black Sail wasn't upgraded (as far as I know), exists on a major tourist walk and had (has?) a very committed hut warden (from what I remember the man built up a fairly good wine collection that he had carried in in it's entirety and used to run curry nights). As a result I would imagine it made a profit. It's hardly your typical out of the way hostel though is it?

In reply to speekingleesh:

you said the problem was they were upgrading to a minimum standard beyond what was necessary, Black Sail hasn't been upgraded, it's a counter example that disproves what you said.

if the YHA could continue as it was, why didn't they do that?

In reply to winhill:

Yes, the argument they made for a lot of hostels being "unprofitable" was they picked an arbitrary standard out of the air said "it must be at this level" then surprise surprise it would cost too much to do this. This was how a lot of the hostels in Wales were shut.

They didn't apply this to Black Sail and it has trundled on just fine. How does this disprove my point?


Incompetence? Failure to understand there core market? Who knows. It is however interesting to note that some of the hostels the YHA reckoned were unsustainable then went on to be owned/managed locally and now exist very successfully as an affiliate hostel (not owned by the YHA), Ninebanks and Greenhead off the top of my head.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Given as people still camp and people still stay in very basic bunkhouses/camping barns I'd say it's rather patronizing to essentially say "Oooh the youth of today can't stay anywhere that hasn't got an en-suite, a view and a veranda..."


Which wasn't what was suggested, what was suggested was getting rid of very valuable (in terms of land value) unused capacity in London to keep the network alive. Also in terms of "21st century standards" they were hardly slum houses with dung for dinner, what they tried to do wasn't so much "increase standards" to some sort of base level, but totally change the facilities into a different type of accommodation.

In reply to speekingleesh:
It may be patronising but since it was clear from the visitor numbers that the better the facilities the higher a hostel's occupancy rate and the more likely it was to make a profit it appears to have been true.

[...]

Which results and research told them was how they could return to profit.

In reply to speekingleesh:
I think the standards argument is very valid. Indeed, at some locations it's well beyond what a hostel should be, I agree it becomes a different type of accommodation. That's not to say that improvements in the facilities aren't often needed. The money would surely be better spent if spread around with a more grounded vision, rather than pushing the standards of just a few flagship locations.

In reply to 2pints: I stopped using YHAs some years ago as B&B seemed as good / a better deal. Some YHAs on circuits eg dartmoor or wales, were closed which lost the point. Shame, buit times change, ethics change, the YHA changed.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Some impact perhaps, but I'd think it's still largely down to location, plenty of hostels with poor facilities and good occupancy levels.


Don't see the necessity of pushing the standards that far, plenty of money to be had with food and drink sales.

In reply to 2pints:

Whinging climbers always cry "RIP OFF", just like budget airlines etc.

The fact is that the prices and exactly what you get for your money are made clear in advance. You pays your moneyand takes your choice

It wouls only be a rip off if you didn't get what you were promissed for the money.

The YHA seem to have had difficulty adjiusting to the modern market, but in many cases I would rather pay a little more for a good YHA than a crap B&B

In reply to speekingleesh:

Edale is not in a big city either, it is a honeypot. Seems £16 is about the going rate for such locations. Being a registered charity doesn't mean that that the YHA should not be run on normal business principles.

I am always a little amused by climbers whinging about having to pay for things. Anyone would think they have no money which doesn't correlate well with the numbers seen leaving the likes of Nevis Sport bar or The Little John in a relaxed condition come chucking out time.

In reply to Horse:

Just been looking at trying to book a bed in some honeypots, and find them booked up virtually all the time. If you do get a bed expect to pay around £6 more than the from price at peak times. Capel Curig says from £15.95 with breakfast, online booking form says £21.95, does not include breakfast.

Now look at what we payed in the Royal Vic at Easter, £44 for an en suite room for two, including breakfast. So their peak rates are higher, but you used to have a price for a hostel and that was it, not a variable pricing. Independent hostels and bunk barns are fixed price, why not hostels?

Wooler was going to be closed due to work needing being done. Not a large scheme but they said no till the local council realised its value to the area and helped out. This in a hostel that has fairly high occupancy rates, being one of the most basic places left.

In reply to Postmanpat:


Maybe but it was a choice. The increasing number of independent hostels, particularly in Scotland, charging £11-£13/night show that it is possible to make a profit with basic accommodation in remote locations. The YHA (and SYHA to a lesser extent) chose to abandon this market.

In reply to 2pints:
They have changed with the times.
Last time I was in a Hostel there were 3 other parties in, 1 was a singles group of 10 or so the other was a group of 10 gays who I had no problem with until a couple started acting like raging queens in front of my children aged 10 and 12 which I do have a problem with, and a group of 3 "middle class" couples trying to do a country house weekend on the cheap and made it plain that they wanted the lake view dining table and exclusive use of the kitchen for their Cordon bleu banquet, creating a scowly atmosphere. I visited in a car so have no room to talk but it looked to me as though nearly everyone else in the hostel had brought a car each.
Also I find they are in honeypots and are booked up months in advance and I do believe you can pay with tesco points.
Take a tent far more flexible.
Cheers Beds

"Being a registered charity doesn't mean that that the YHA should not be run on normal business principles."

Does any one else have issue with this statement?

In reply to 2pints:

Why is it a rip-off. The prices are as advertised so you have a choice whether to agree to the £16 or not.

Do I think £16 is a good deal - probably not.


Slugain

In reply to Dominic Green:

No, should we ?

In reply to 2pints:

£18 at Hawkshead in the bleak midwinter. No en suite. Had to make MY OWN BED! Shocking state of affairs.

In reply to 2pints:


Same for the Holyhead one. My other half was looking very pleased with herself when I got home and she'd booked it for £20 pppn including breakfast. Until I pointed out that some B&Bs would be this cheap.

nice location, reasonable room, mediocre shower facilities, and not particularly special breakfast... is all things I would expect from YHA but at a cheaper rate.

out of interest, does anyone know how much the ones which still have bunk rooms charge these days?

In reply to nikinko:
although of course, they wouldn't have self catering facilities and we'd have to spend much more eating every night.

In reply to nikinko: This is the hostel at Rackwick Bay, perfect for the Old Man of Hoy, it sleeps 12 but if 6 of you book in you get the whole hostel, Its well cheaper than the ones being mentioned on here.
http://www.syha.org.uk/hostels/islands/rackwick.aspx

In reply to Al Evans: Should have mentioned £9.95 pppn.

In reply to nikinko:

The room I stayed in at Hawkshead had 3/4 sets of bunk beds and charged £18