UKC

Ok. It's a 60/70's rock band, it's a pitch on Gimmer (and no doubt other crags?), and now it's a difficult hole at the Augusta Masters.
But does anybody know the origin of the name, don't look it up, I haven't, I just wanted to see if anybody knows where it comes from.

In reply to Al Evans:

I've hear it used in regard to sharp corners in the road with poor visibility, as in "say a prayer before taking it".

In reply to Al Evans:
It's from an old chapel in Bridgend, South Wales. The group used to use it for band practice. It's on a corner, hence the name, Amen Corner.

N

In reply to Nigel R Lewis: But why on a crag and a golf course?

In reply to Al Evans:

This topic was mentioned on the radio last week and from memory it's origin was an area in New York in the early 1900's which was a preachers corner. Not sure how it migrated to climbs/golf tho?

In reply to Al Evans:

It's obvious isn't it? "Say a prayer, this is going to be hard."

Or do you mean, was there an original Amen Corner? Whatever, I have always assumed the name meant the same.

In reply to Al Evans:

Wiki says this:

"Amen Corner

The second shot at the 11th, all of the 12th, and the tee shot at the 13th hole at Augusta are nicknamed "Amen Corner". This term was first used in print by author Herbert Warren Wind in his April 21, 1958 Sports Illustrated article about the Masters that year. In a Golf Digest article in April 1984, 26 years later, Wind told about its origin. He said he wanted a catchy phrase like baseball's "hot-corner" or football's "coffin-corner" to explain where some of the most exciting golf had taken place (the Palmer-Venturi rules issue at twelve in particular). Thus "Amen Corner" was born. He said it came from the title of a jazz record he had heard in the mid-1930s by a group led by Chicago's Mezz Mezzrow, Shouting in that Amen Corner.[8] In a Golf Digest article in April 2008, writer Bill Fields added some new updated information about the origin of the name. He wrote that Richard Moore, a golf and jazz historian from South Carolina, tried to purchase a copy of the old Mezzrow 78 RPM disc for an "Amen Corner" exhibit he was putting together for his Golf Museum at Ahmic Lake, Ontario. After extensive research, Moore found that the record never existed. As Moore put it, Wind, himself a jazz buff, must have "unfortunately bogeyed his mind, 26 years later". While at Yale, he was no doubt familiar with, and meant all along, the popular version of the song (with the correct title, "Shoutin' in that Amen Corner" written by Andy Razaf), which was recorded by the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra, vocal by Mildred Bailey (Brunswick label No. 6655) in 1935. Moore told Fields that, being a great admirer of Wind's work over the years, he was reluctant, for months, to come forth with his discovery that contradicted Wind's memory. Moore's discovery was first reported in Golf World magazine in 2007, before Fields' longer article in Golf Digest in 2008."

In reply to Fraser:
And Al Evans said "does anybody know the origin of the name, don't look it up,"

I had always assumed it came from a line in the Bible but apparently not. However, having looked it up myself, the origin appears to be older than wiki recognises.

In reply to Al Evans:

Well for the full answer you'd have to ask the person who named it, but I'm guessing once the name gained popular currency, it was applied to other stuff.

I don't know the route you mention, but I'd hazard a guess it had a corner on it somewhere! Same goes for the golf course, I imagine the next hole is at a 90 degree angle to the one you are just finishing. Or perhaps there's a church nearby!!

Or of course there might be no link whatsoever. If you look it up, post the answer and let's see what you find?

N

In reply to Al Evans: Hi, the Americans like a catchy name for the hardest holes on the golf course. Other examples include the Bear trap at the PGA national.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Oops, sorry - missed that bit.

In reply to Al Evans: when I was a lorry drive in London,I sometimes did a delivery round in the city and there was a little courtyard called Amen Corner behind Saint Paula if memory serves.

Bloody good moves for a VD as well.

In reply to Al Evans: i named the memory of a corner as amen corner taken by a whisky swilling prat who had picked me up as a initial happy hitchiker;needless to say i vacated immedietly afterwards!amen!!

In reply to Al Evans:

It's a business park in Bracknell, too...

In reply to Nigel R Lewis:


'B' Route on Gimmer Crag, Langdale.

In reply to Furthur:

I've actually done Amen Corner on B Route, it's just one pitch, the guide I have it's the only pitch with it's own name on the route
"3 5 m. Amen Corner. The overhanging and leaning corner is awkward though succumbs to a positive approach."

So I am no clearer where the name comes from, incidently this route was first done in 1907!

In reply to Al Evans: Sorry that should read pitch 3, 5m.

In reply to Al Evans:


The first ascents list notes that Amen Corner had previously been climbed in Spring 1903.

The 1926 F&RCC guide for Langdale and Buttermere says:

"...Moving round the corner to the right, the congregation assembles in Amen Corner, and secures itself to the juniper roots with which the floor is festooned. By adopting the lay-back posture, first facing right then facing left, the top of the crack may be reached without undue loss of time. A strenuous pull lands the climber on the Gangway, with an excellent belay on the slab to the left. The devout second will sympathetically murmur "Amen" to any remarks let fall by his leader while struggling up this wall, eight cubits in length."

The route - B Route(West Face) - was graded Moderately severe.

In reply to Al Evans:


The phrase apparently refers to the corner of a Church where the leader of the congregation, who leads the "amens", sits. As such it presumably came to be used of places where one might be provoked to say "amen".

In reply to Postmanpat: I think thats the nearest we have to an answer!

In reply to Al Evans: I have now given up a searched it, this is from dictionary.com
"amen corner
 noun Chiefly Midland and Southern U.S.
a place in some Protestant churches, usually at one side of the pulpit, occupied by worshipers leading the responsive amens of the congregation.

In reply to Al Evans:

Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable gives this:

London, the end of Paternoster Row, where the monks finished their Pater Noster, on Corpus Christi Day, as they went in procession to St. Paul’s Cathedral. They began in Paternoster Row with the Lord’s prayer in Latin, which was continued to the end of the street; then said Amen, at the corner or bottom of the Row; then turning down Ave-Maria Lane, commenced chanting the “Hail, Mary!” then crossing Ludgate, they chanted the Credo. Amen Lane no longer exists.


No date, but monks in St Paul's Cathedral puts it pre-Reformation, so pre-1530's.

In reply to Al Evans:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=425945&y=435182&z=115&sv=4...

In reply to Al Evans:

Its a go-karting course in Sherwood Forest, near Centre parcs.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: The point is, WHY!

In reply to Al Evans:

I dunno, that just what they called it.
http://www.amencornerkarting.co.uk/

In reply to Al Evans:

I was a chorister at St Pauls, and used to play cricket (tennis ball) every sat in paternoster square and just next door there is a very old Amen corner, off ave maria lane and at the back of which is Amen court. It has been referred to as such, since well before the great fire of London. Since the 1600s and until recently it has been the residential location for the dean and chapter of St Pauls. The back wall backed onto Newgate prison and the ghost of an escaped prisoner as well as a black dog is said to haunt the court at the back by the wall. Before the great fire it was also the meeting rooms for the Royal College of Physicians. I don't know why it has that name, but I can check my london encyclopedia l8r, however I believe that pre-reformation monks and later clergy were located in paternoster row (old london) and ave maria lane / amen corner may well have these names as procession routes, as is often the case for such ecclesiastical names.

In reply to Al Evans: My understanding that it comes from that most excellent VDiff at Pule Hill, the quality and exposure of which is packed into its short length, has led many to religious fervour during an ascent.

In reply to Removed User:

Amen at Pule Hill wasn't climbed until the 1960's.

In reply to Furthur: I think you mean it wasn't claimed until the 60's? I'd guessing the Pule route was named after the Gimmer route, anyone know??

In reply to Al Evans: My daughter lives on Amen Corner in Tooting London