UKC

So, after my fist proper night out in town,I have become disillusioned by the whole night club scene. Having anticipated being 18 and being able to finally go out clubbing I have been bitterly disappointed. The streets were full of complete idiots wandering around trying to get as pissed as possible. I thought there'd be more of an air of celebration, but it seems like people just want to drown there sorrows, forget about how shit there life is and how shit it will continue to be, have sex with random strangers, and start fights for no reason. All this for a pounding headache the next morning. There was hardly anyone my age, it just seemed to be full of 30 year olds trying to take advantage of girls who wanted to be taken advantage of. Hopefully this is different in cities other than derby, where there's not really that many students. Anyway alcohol, it just makes you loose control, do things you'll regret the next morning, spend way to much money on drinks and forget what could have been a great night. The fact that It makes you more confident when talking to people is irrelevant if you don't feel whatever you say is going to be judged.

In reply to climb the peak:

Get the right people, the right place, the right music, and most importantly the right amount of booze and you will have the winning formula for an excellent night out. I dont know derby, but if its anything like any of the other 'townie' parts of other cities, you're right.. it is shit. Avoid it and find somewhere else. There are usually hidden gems of venues that provide what you're after, they just need finding.

But if boozing is not for you, be glad, and enjoy non-hungover weekends to the fullest!

In reply to climb the peak: You went out in Derby? They were probably all shagging their sisters and drinking special brew.

Try somewhere with a bit of a music scene

In reply to climb the peak:

Hey man, I know how you feel. I was gonna write it but it makes me look like a criticizing and superior-feeling dick.

You'll find your scene, you'll find your crowd. But don't rush it.

What sort of music are you into?

In reply to climb the peak:

Maybe pills and raves would be more your scene?

Hahahaa!



In reply to climb the peak:

Note to self: go out on the lash in Derby sometime...



In all seriousness though I dont go out nearly as often as I used to because I got bored of all that. Every now and then an occasion calls for it, but yeah, dont think youre a freak because it isnt your thing.

Why do people drink alcohol?

Because its there.

No seriously. For most people its a weekend escape from the modern hell that is their life. Its an anesthetic release.

Just be assured there are good people and good places to be with them. You'll find yours, probably without looking.

Best wishes

In reply to climb the peak:

Terrible. Can you be more specific about where these girls were?

In reply to climb the peak:

I recently turned 22, and after several years of it, including some very lairy 5 day+ sessions, I can't really remember why. I think it's fun at the time?

Depends where you go. Derby is an appalling place to go IMO. Sheffield has the best studenty nights I've been to, which is useful seeing as I live in the city centre. :P

In reply to climb the peak:

You could try looking on the Derby Uni SU website to see what else is on offer in Derby. Any Uni town usually caters for a wide range of tastes, so there's bound to be something that you'll enjoy.

Maybe you're just more of a 'pubber' than a 'clubber'. I know I am - I much prefer going to a decent pub with a group of friends for the night than going clubbing.

And if you're feeling adventurous/reckless, you could always try the Bless.

In reply to climb the peak:

Sounds like a nightmare

In reply to climb the peak: I've never drunk alcohol myself, though I do drink a lot of beer. It has a great taste and the alcohol it contains has a very pleasant effect. Stick to pubs though, clubs are mostly shit. Cheers!

In reply to climb the peak: Glasgow is pretty good for a night clubbing. There is always going to be arseholes around, it unavoidable. But just try not to drink so much you can't keep track of what you are doing and can keep yourself and mates out of trouble. If you can go out on a Sunday or a Thursday night as these tend to be student orientated and have less wankers lurking about and the drink is cheaper, you can get happy on £20 once your in. Try and go where the University and Colleges are at, not sure about Derby but maybe Liverpool or Manchester is the best place to head ? It might just not be the scene for you. I've had great times in town and in clubs but equally had a great time sitting in a pub in the middle of nowhere talking about climbing and planning the next day. Its all about who your with and what you make of it !

In reply to climb the peak: Perhaps the more relevant question after your experience is "why do people go clubbing?".

T.

In reply to climb the peak:

I can see where you're coming from as I take a similar view to you now at 27, but that was preceded by a decade or so of taking it to excess most times I went out!

At your age I just found it had a novelty factor, things seemed more fun/funnier when pissed and, as a fairly reserved person, it helped me come out of my shell a bit. If you're normally a bit shy and self conscious about dancing like a tw*t it can 'help'. Several years on however, the novelty has worn off, the hangovers have got a lot worse, and I'm a bit more self confident and don't often need the crutch of alcohol in a social situation.

If you don't want to drink don't let anyone pressurise you into it. Some people seem to get offended if you decline alcohol, I don't know why but that's their problem, not yours. However, I've found with the right people in the right place you can have a great time without getting smashed. As other people have suggested above, I'd agree that it'd be worth your while trying a different town or city, especially studenty places with more people your age. Being sober around drunk people can be pretty eye opening, but not all places are as grim as you seem to have found Derby.

In reply to nastyned:

Am I missing something?

In reply to climb the peak:

I agree. I find there's a time and place where drinking is good and enjoyable, but I usually find the high street/night club scene too debauched for my austere/semi-reclusive mentality. Then again I am a lightweight/pussy/hazardous when drunk/slightly tee-total and can barely stomach anything other than beer (struggle with that also...).

In reply to ThunderCat:

Ned = Scottish person

In Scotland, Beer = tea or water.

In reply to climb the peak: Though I think Scottish law does mention that pilots and bus drivers are allowed no more than 6 cans per shift.

In reply to Wonko The Sane: Nah, I was being a bit facetious. Beer is a mainly watery solution that contains <5% alcohol.

In reply to nastyned:

Terry Pratchett holds that since beer contains water and yeast it is in fact a form of 'runny bread'.

Personally I agree, and think this means it should form the back-bone of any balanced diet.

In reply to ThunderCat:
Agreed (hic)
I don't trust that tap water anyway. Full of chemicals.

In reply to trouserburp:

Haha. That's good, responsible advice

But slightly more seriously to the OP, if you do go out to a club that plays proper dance music and everyone does pills and the like, you'll find a completely different atmosphere and a much better one IMO. You might be wiser to avoid the pharmacology, but if you like the music, going out with good mates dancing at a good club with a great dj, sound system, friendly crowd where everyone is really into the music, can be a great experience. It's not for everyone of course, and most people who are really into do tend to combine it with an interest in applied organic chemistry.

You get a few posers in those kind of clubs, but you don't get a shitty aggressive atmosphere the way you do when everyone's pissed.

And all told, booze is great. Just use it right, it takes a modicum of experience, but when you do, it's delicious and makes everything more fun. Of all the drugs out there, nothing beats booze. Long live booze!

In reply to climb the peak:

In terms of why do I drink, it's because I like the taste of cider or good wine. The alcohol content takes the edge off after a long day at work, and makes relaxing into a sofa with Lady Blue all the nicer.

However, I don't drink to excess and haven't been drunk for nearly 20 years. Last time was around 1991 when I was about your age, possibly a bit older, when I got staggeringly drunk, put myself at considerable risk of injury or death, behaved like an idiot and lost a few friends, all in one night, and spent the next week recovering. Made the decision then that alcohol to extreme excess was not actually a positive in my life and haven't been drunk since.

Don't get me wrong. I like a drink of cider due to the taste, but I also know when to stop becasue of the alcohol content.

In terms of clubbing it depends on the club. If we are talking about your average trendy nightclub then its absolute hell, I agree.

A decent club where people are there to appreciate and enjoy the music, however, can be a lot of fun. I still go clubbing now, admittedly about once a couple of months rather than numerous times a week as I did at 18-21.

Incidentally, If I'm out clubbing, I'll normally drink alternate alcohol/non-alcohol pints.

In reply to John_Hat:

I got drunk once. Serves me right for sitting in a glass.

In reply to climb the peak:

Why do people drink alcohol?

Because Mary J got grounded?

In reply to climb the peak:
I drink alcohol in relatively small amounts these days--no more than a few drinks per week. I drink a pint (or glass of wine, or dram of whisky) because I like the taste. Haven't been drunk for over a year as I realised a while ago that I don't enjoy it.

That said, I do like a proper pub and I do like alcoholic drinks. Never enjoyed clubs and doubt I ever will--for the reasons you specify!

In reply to climb the peak: I massively cut down on drink 4 years ago, now I haven't had even a glass of wine for nearly 2 years. I do not miss it at all and I would not be surprised if I never drank any alcohol again.
Instead of spending my money on booze, fags and cheap drugs each weekend I saved. 4 years later, I brought an apartment in Turkey with the money I would have wasted.

In reply to climb the peak:
I'm surprised at the amount of negative responces re derby. I live in Nottingham and went to Derby last saturday night with a group of friends. We all said how refreshing it was not to have streets full of idiots and drunken students roaming the streets! Maybe we didnt get to that part of derby! Nottingham city centre is appalling at the weekend! Personally I love a few beers, but keep it local. No fights, no arguments, just good laughs.

In reply to climb the peak: Drink is the Devil's vomit.

In reply to climb the peak:

booze might not be dor you, which is fine. But don't blame it for all the ills out there. If you're around idiots in a crap place then likely you won't like it with booze either. But with good friends, good music, and a few beers or whatever in you all the booze does is chill you out and let you relax and enjoy the moment. While it's sadly involved in many of societies problems, it's not the alcohol that's the problem, it's the people.

In reply to climb the peak:

You are going the wrong places with the wrong people at the wrong time.

This is the problem with enforcing a no alcohol until 18 policy. Out get to 18 and think you need a skin full. We used to go for a beer after venture scouts from about 16 years old. There were a few too many bottles of beer occasionally, but drink became a social thing and not the main reason to go out.

In reply to climb the peak:

Failed to score I take it?

In reply to trouserburp:

I have to agree. The difference between booze clubs and rave clubs is phenomenal. It's a sign of the sheer madness of our drug laws that the substance which is most addictive, more damaging, and give more of a potential to violence and trouble, is the legal one, and the substance which makes people loved up, less prone to violence, does less damage, and is less addictive, if addictive at all, is illegal..

In reply to climb the peak:

I think you summed up your answer in the OP.

BTW where are the easy women who want my sperm donation?

In reply to stroppygob:

Bollox

In reply to stroppygob:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/nov/09/new-rules-of-dancefloor

This article says it all! Regardless of your opinion of the guardian, what is written here is the truth.

To the OP; not need for drugs. Find something to go out for, be it pulling, music, fighting or what ever. And enjoy it while you look for what you're looking for with good company! I find going out for the music is best because it's arguably the easiest and safest option for the night

Ps. if you really want to pull; I've heard, through a reliable source, that pretending to be dolphin trainers on a road trip works a treat. Tell your mates and get them to back the story. Only heard this though.

In reply to stroppygob: I take it you are refering to MDMA ? Hardly what you could call harmless if recent studies on longterm use show... Then again you ave all the other variants of Heroine, Ketamine,Amphetamine etc that get slung together and called "Pills"
http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ecstasy/effects.htm

While you are correct Alcohol is an incredibly damaging substance in terms of Violence, road traffic accidents, Rape, Murder and the huge swathe of illnesses it causes or exacerbates.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Slowly getting ratted in a good pub with my mates is far more enjoyable than trying vainly to talk to people over the din in a loud club, TBH. It used to be the case that a club came in hany because it was open later, but now that silly law has gone it's less likely to be my choice.

Neil

In reply to climb the peak:
there are two types of alchohol drinker
1. any old sh*t that gets you p*ssed. It could be brasso for all they care.
Most night club larger is coloured water chilled to just above freezing so that you can't taste the chemicals
2. Those that appreciate a good pint/wine/whiskey etc.
There are some cracking brews out there full of depth and flavour and a joy to consume. Yes you can still get p*ssed but that is not the reason to consume.
If I could get the same taste from non-alchoholic beverage I would but I have yet to find anyting that comes close

In reply to climb the peak: I find my tremendous sense of righteousness is all the high I require.

In reply to climb the peak:

Another good reason to drink large amounts of alcohol is that you can stay on the job longer.

Every little extra helps.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Thing is, the 'latest studies' aren't studies into the effects of MDMA. They're studies into messy poly-drug use - there have hardly been any studies of people actually taking a known dose of MDMA, just studies of folks who go out getting munted in clubs all the time, i.e. drinking 6 pints, then dropping a couple of pills, then doing some "coke", and drinking a whole lot more, then dropping another pill, with a whole load of spliffs, more coke and maybe some vallies to get to sleep at some point the following day. (This is of course just speculation on my part of what people who have been involved in studies of ecstacy use, and who have partially f^cked brains have been up to). Not what you would really call a 'study into the use of MDMA'.

I think David Nutt talks sense about all this. I for one believe that MDMA is a powerful drug you have to be careful with, but which if you use it sensibly any negative effects will clear up very quickly after you leave it alone. Of all the people who I know who spent a few years of their life dabbling with that type of thing, I know not one who has any problems that they can attribute to it. No significant depression, memory loss, blah blah that they connect with use of MDMA. Those that suffer anything like that suffered it before they used MDMA, and no worse afterwards.

The clinical evidence about the long-term effects of moderate MDMA use is incredibly scarce, but anecdotal evidence suggests that it simply isn't a problem. As for pills being full of other crap, well yes that's true and it can be disappointing, but again there's nothing to suggest that the piperazines, amphetamines, cathinones, etc that get sold in pills cause any particular damage. After all, since the users aren't seeking out these drugs, we're talking about one-off experiences (which could be a crap) not substances that are actually doing any harm.

All that said, I still prefer booze to MDMA, because you can just have a few drinks, have a laugh and then go to sleep, and get up to go climbing the next day. If you're out doing MDMA, the after effects (or the effects of missing the sleep and food) last well into the next week. Rather committing, I think - it had better be a good night to be worth the sketchy few days that follow.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Heroin has never been tested as present in pills sold as MDMA and neither have many other scaremongering substances. It has never made any sense to put more expensive ingredients in a pill than the ingredient you are trying to see.

MDMA has many long term studies and the majority of the results point to much less damage than smoking or drinking. I myself have taken MDMA since going on 16 years now. All the people who took MDMA in its rave heyday are now all the mums and dads at parents night (and older). We don't have generations of people who are f*cked up.

There are some toxic adulterants however that most pill/MDMA users set out to avoid such as PMA.

There are plenty of way to find out enough information about the pills you are taking. A large majority of pills in the UK originate in The Netherlands where there are public pill testing available. You can also buy some test kits in the UK to use, and there is a "pillreports" site which people post test results of pills which are about.

Pillreports is a fantastic piece of "harm reduction" which allows people to make relatively informed choices about what they are taking (and testing themself if they want).

In reply to The Lemming:


Unless you were the KLM pilot last year so pissed he couldn't recite the alphabet, he didn't stay on the job very long ;0)

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Slightly disagree here. I can go out and take a moderate amount of MDMA, not drink alcohol and be pretty much fine the next day, and certainly back at the gym or out running, biking, or climbing on the monday without any issue. The worst hangovers I get as you touched on is big nights where a lot of mixing of differnt things happen and that normally involves a stupid amount of alcohol, mixed with MDMA, sometimes a line or two, and a blue to help me sleep. That sort of misadventure usually screws me the full week, but that is due to over indulgence and mixing rather than the MDMA use itself.

In reply to stroppygob:

+1 Clubs for drugs, pubs for beer. I love a drink and prefer a good pub, perhaps a bit of live music and getting slightly inebriated I hate going in to towns/citys drinking as everyone wants to see who is the hardest (most cockish), however if you're in the right place (everyone in the same frame of mind) it was a good night out, or it was when I was younger.

Derby is a shit hole though, but I thought it had a few students? As others have said I would try and find where and when the students are out, they get rather drunk but are not normally aggressive, that's what the locals are for.

However, drink and drugs are not for everyone, I've had mates who haven't done either but still have a good time out at night, and then others who didn't like going out at night at all.

In reply to TheUnknownClimber: I see what you're saying, but fact is, you can't sleep for a few hours after you've been high on MDMA, so unless you're going to start dropping pills at tea-time, you're not going to have a good day at the crag afterwards. Agreed the sketchiness is far worse if it's been messy, rather than say a single dose of 100mg taken at a civilised hour, but the fact that you've been doing drugs that cock around with your neurotransmitters in a fairly unforgiving fashion puts MDMA in a totally different league to drinking, in my view. These days, I wouldn't take a drug at the weekend that might still be affecting my thoughts, feelings and wellbeing 5 days later e.g. struggling to get out of bed all week, feeling foggy Monday/Tuesday, feeling like crying all day Wednesday blah blah. I know it's not like that every time, and probably isn't like that if you take full precautions (dose it sensibly, get the right food and sleep before and after, etc), but IME a week like that is certainly a risk of a night out on pills.

In reply to climb the peak:
I gave up drinking on my 18th birthday, I have never really regretted it.

But remembering every minute of every waking hour is not an easy thing either( but it is cheaper.

And remember , drunk people can also be as entertaining as the can be assholes, so as an other poster said, choose your friends wisely and you too can have a good time
( but if you go TT you can become someone that others will tend to rely on to get them home safe)

In reply to The Lemming:

Well there's certainly no debating with that sort of concise and erudite repudiation of my ideas.


In reply to muppetfilter:

Sorry, did you forget to put the link to these studies in?



Which would not happen if legal, pharmaceutical quality E was available.

In reply to climb the peak:

Because it's the sociable thing to do with mates

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Aye of course I am not going to go cragging the next morning, but I am not going to do that if I have been on the piss as well.


See I take those sorts of precautions. I certainly wouldn't take MDMA every weekend. Once a month maximum to allow neurotransmitters to build back up again. This is helped with a diet high in tryptophan, and also supplement with 5-HTP for a few days after it.

It is certainly also worth noting that pills with other amphetamines, pips, caths etc in particularly when mixed with MDMA is a recipe for a bad hangover. I tried Mephedrone and found it a horrible substance. During a drought of MDMA I went through a phase of BK-MDMA which is also a cath but obviously a analog of MDMA - I didn't have the same magic but certainly wasn't unpleasent - and this was when BK-MDMA was legal a few years back.

When Safrole was more restricted it has resulted in this surge in research chemicals and dodgy pills and there has been more incidents of illness and deaths than any other time. Safrole has just started becoming available again and good quality MDMA has also became available meaning pills are much purer (most recent ones I had have been lab tested at 200mg.

On the flip side, I have seen people totally get "the bug" and burn themself out in a couple of years. This is usually coupled with abuse of other things and also lack of good diet and proper exercise.

In reply to stroppygob: I didn't link studies as I don't spend all my time researching illegal drugs . I can however put you on to some cracking dwarf porn websites ;0)

I do however feel sorry for the folks that seem to be clinging desperately to their 1990's teenage years deep into adulthood , maybe drugs are still cool for you . For lots of us it was a phase we went through, thoroughly enjoyed and moved on from.

In reply to climb the peak:

Are you looking at me funny?...

In reply to TheUnknownClimber:

I once did some broccoli. Wowzer.

In reply to climb the peak:

I was in Derby last night and I had a pretty great time but I was there with a bunch of other 30/40 somethings for the real ale. If you want nice safe friendly youth scene then you don't have a chance. Derby has a brilliant real ale scene and the rest of town seems to cater to the lager drinking fist-smiths, the only 18 year olds I saw were round the bus station trying to get 14 year old girls to give them a BJ for a can of cider. Derby university seems to have a non-drinking thing going on, I know people who have had strange ranty letters from various student groups opposing the promotion of Derby as a real ale city. Maybe failing all your exams and only managing to get in at Derby Uni makes you sober up permanently or something.

Other places to go - Nottingham (fighty/stabby/shooty), Sheffield (music/studenty), Birmingham (weird/beige), no train to Manchester which is a shame.

In reply to Clarence:

I thought Derby was a horse race where people in top hats and fine clothes get squiffy on champagne?

In reply to Trangia:

You were almost right...

In reply to Clarence:

Nottingham (fighty/stabby/shooty)

I disagree - spent 2 years in Notts (no, not as a f@#*ing student either), and apart from being offered a great many exciting substances at every turn, had no trouble at all. In my home town of Truro (Cornwall), however, I have had my nose broken twice and a good mate of mine has had half of his ear bitten off...

In reply to muppetfilter:

Clinging Desperately? Feel sorry? That's a bit harsh. Why do you cling on to alcohol? Why do most people not grow out of drinking alcohol or smoking cigs when they are the most harmful substances out there. Drugs are not "cool" for me. I enjoy using MDMA in moderation as it enhances many experiences in a better way than alcohol does. Both drugs whether you accept the fact or not.

Dont go out on fri/sat nights. Go for a pint or two in a non central pub with a few friends. That is what alcohol consumption should be.

Random nights sat in a old man pub drinking the darkest ale on tap has always ended up in hilarious conversations.

The best way of saving a midget who had been eaten by a hippo springs to my mind.

In reply to TheUnknownClimber: I haven't had an alcoholic drink since march of 2007 so unfortunately i'm not the hypocrite you would like me to be.

I am in a position today where I have already been out for a 12 mile bike ride and done the weekly shop. I was amazed to find I could manage to have quite an adventurous and fun life once I stopped doing drugs and drinking.

It must feel really odd being in a club and everyone around you is 15-20 years younger, as I said before ...quite sad really.And if you didn't get some Kudos from your drug use then you wouldn't be on an internet forum going on about it ;0)

In reply to muppetfilter:

well I was drinking for 12 hrs yesterday and was up at 8 am and did a nice 5 mile run, and will do another 6-7 miles later..

I drink, but I don't let it impact my weekend, I just run hungover..

In reply to muppetfilter:

Good for you. I have already been out a 10k run just before lunch and I am about to head off to the climbing wall as it is too wet to get outdoors. I have a very adventurous life as well - I only drink and take drugs in social moderation. It does not affect my fitness or health.

I spent most of my clubbing time at The Subclub in Glasgow and you will find that it is very much a mixed age crowd who are all there to appreciate the music (Techno and House). I have never once felt old in there and there is a large proportion of people in there my own age. Try it out some time. I have been there completely sober as well so you would still enjoy it.

You might have noticed this is an anonymous profile. I do not seek any personal kudos for what I do, mainly because I am aware of the legality of it. My personal opinion is still the same though and it just interests me when people who smoke and drink like troopers (not you) can take such unfounded and uneducated moral standing "against drugs".

In reply to IainRUK:

Now that's a good response! ()

I don't drink, and i'm happy for people who can drink and enjoy it mostly harmlessly.

We all do some things which are risky or bad for us.

In reply to IainRUK: I would suggest driving would be a bad idea after as you say having a 12 hour drinking session yesterday, you could possibly be still guilty of drink driving well into the afternoon . A driving ban would be rather a blow to your business wouldn't it.

http://www.globalrph.com/blood_alcohol_calculator.htm

In reply to muppetfilter:He can run from his back door.

In reply to Timmd: So can I but the alley gets a bit boring ...
More of a heads up to the mistake people can make when waking up and underestimating how drunk they still are. About one in four of all drink drive convictions are from the morning after drinking

In reply to muppetfilter:

Depends how fast you drink - a twelve hour session for me might only be eight pints.

In reply to Clarence: you can drink as fast or slow as you like but the liver only has one speed .

In reply to climb the peak:
I drink to help me forget.

In reply to climb the peak:

So ugly people can get laid

In reply to muppetfilter:
Just because you couldn't handle the bevvy and a pill or two doesn't mean it's ok for you to sneer at those who can.
Comes over as a bit sad really.

In reply to muppetfilter: Do you get lonely up on that high horse of yours?

In reply to mountainsheep: It's not a high-horse, I'm looking down on you from the moral high ground :0)

In reply to birdie num num:

What are you trying to forget?

In reply to The Lemming:
I've forgotten

In reply to birdie num num:

bada, bing.

I thank euw

In reply to The Lemming:
Num Num had a feeling that somebody would ask. Unfortunately it was you. Hard luck.

In reply to Removed User:

I did like Iain's response, in how running with a hangover seems quite hardcore, but I did find myself worrying when out last night in The Cavandish in Sheffield and seeing lots of people getting very drunk, I wondered what costs to thier health are being stored up, and the impact on the NHS. Though everybody's being told it's bad to binge drink it seems like a lot of people still are. I'd see this as a bad thing if I drank alcohol.

In reply to muppetfilter: When did I say I was driving?

Of course it would.. it would negatively impact on anyone, well most..

In the end I did a fantastic 13 mile trail run following 5 miles this am.. so 18 miles today.. felt great on the second run.. stunning night..


Finished with a pint in the ladybower..

In reply to Timmd: The run was from my parents house, up through beachief abbey, across the golf courses then back via the woods of ladies spring and hutcliffe..

Then at 4pm, I stopped drinking 10/11p.. so or so 16 hrs later, I drove to ladybower and ran up win hill, out to hagg farm, up and down to Fairholmes, up to backtor and back to ladybower.

I only drunk fairly weak real ale all day, no mixing of drinks so was OK really this morning, the first run was slow, the second I felt great.

If you don't mix drinks and stick on real ale generally the hang over is very manageable..

In reply to muppetfilter:

First you tell us;


Then you tell us;


Or in other words, you just make up bullshit and hope you don't get called on it.

Do you really expect us to take your opinion on this subject seriously, after you've just shot yourself in the foot in that way?

> I do however feel sorry for the folks that seem to be clinging desperately to their 1990's teenage years deep into adulthood , maybe drugs are still cool for you .

Yes, well, we won't hold our breath waiting for you to substantiate that slur, now will we?

In reply to stroppygob: If you have been unable to find the reams of clinical evidence on the internet (lack of concentration is one sideffect of long term MDMA use) I have made it dead easy for you to do... try and click on the link below if your fine motor skills allow .



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=clinical+evidence+of+the+long+term+damage+of+MDMA+use

To Ian I never accused you of drink driving, I did however point out a heavy session woud put a backlog of alcohol in the system and that it could see a person over the legal limit well into the next day, 25% of all banned drink drivers did this.

In reply to muppetfilter:



So in other words, you had no evidence to back up your claim, and the best you can do is to use a leading question on google, to try to find evindence?

Ok, lets go to your "google hits".

The first one shows this;



the second hit tells us;


It is important, however, not to overstate the case. The young people most at risk are likely to reject out of hand any “scare stories,”since they feel that there have been only a few well- publicized cases of harm from the drug. These numbers are small compared to the numbers of individuals who use MDMA regularly. Studies of the drug can be criticized on the basis that they depend heavily on the quality of self-reported data. The data analysis may also be confounded by failure to report multiple drug use or inaccuracies in the reported duration of drug abstinence immediately prior to the investigation.

The third shows this bit of clinical bias;


So you are relying on stuff you haven't read, the best of which could be said to be biased and unsound, and expect us to take you seriously?

I could go on, but why should I bother trying to educate someone who doesn't even bother to read the stuff they google up as "evidence".

You're a joke pal.





You're still looking very shallow here you know.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Wow a google link rather than hard science yourself?

The problem that Professor Nutt describes is that research funded by government is a lot of the time (in his experience) going to be skewed in favour of the funders. UK Government didn't like his findings so they sacked him.

Studies with positive outcomes are little found for this reason, and the ones which do appear end up under a lot of scrutiny and criticism by scientists under the payroll of those who seek to keep things the way they are.

Regarding Memory etc - Here is one study which found little decreased cognitive performance in MDMA users:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3053129/

Regarding Depression etc - Here is one study which indicates that a higher incidence of later depression in MDMA users is possibly because people with depression or likely to develop depression are actually drawn to using drugs like MDMA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1432198/

In reply to muppetfilter:

The google search brings up Nutt's review for the ACMD (or some crappy journalism reporting it, with some flagrant misrepresentation thrown in).

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/acmd1/mdma...

This is a review of the available evidence - it's the nearest thing possible to the bottom line on "what the science says", where the quality of the evidence is considered in its weighting in the conclusions rather than whether the evidence supports s political viewpoint (in contrast to what you'll see after it's been mangled by a scientifically illiterate journalist). I don't know if the review is the epitome of thorough, objective scientific reasoning, but thinking about it reasonably, it's from a trustworthy source.

Here's the bit about long term effects:

8. MDMA and mental health effects

8.1 MDMA-associated depressive symptoms appear to typically follow
weekend use and have been termed the ‘mid-week crash’ (Parrott and
Lasky, 1998). These feelings are generally mild and quickly resolve,
although some users have been reported to take selective serotonin
reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants to mitigate the effects (Farre
et al., 2007).

8.2 A concern has been raised that extensive, chronic MDMA use can lead to
clinical depression, perhaps through changes in brain serotonin function
discussed in Section 6. The evidence is currently equivocal – most
studies do not find significantly increased levels of clinical depression
in current or ex-MDMA users; however, when combined, the available
evidence suggests that there is a small but significant exposure effect
(Rogers et al., 2009). One study has found that scores on depression
rating scales in MDMA users were somewhat elevated compared with
non-users and this was most marked in those with a specific genotype
of the serotonin reuptake site (Roiser et al., 2005). Although, even in the
most affected group, these ratings did not fall within the range considered
symptomatic of clinical depression.

8.3 Some people with clinical depression find that MDMA can acutely lift
their mood, albeit only transiently (B. Sessa, pers. comm.). Although it is
unlikely that much MDMA use is for such self-medication, the scheduling
status of MDMA has discouraged systematic clinical research work in this
area. Recently there have been two clinical trials showing that MDMA can
accentuate the benefits of psychotherapy in the treatment of chronic posttraumatic
stress disorder (PTSD) (Bouso et al., 2008, Mithoefer et al.,
2008).

I don't have an axe to grind on the issue, if MDMA is harmful it should be treated as such and if its completely benign then likewise, let's have it for breakfast. The only way we'll know is through science. I do have an axe to grind about science, how it is interpreted, communicated to the public and its unsatisfactory level of influence on policy.

When discussing matters of science, there is a right and a wrong, and in this case the nearest thing to 'right' is a review of the available evidence. OK, David Nutt was bad at politics (horse-riding yada yada), but this is a review, commissioned by the Home Office and signed off by Board of the ACMD, not a study that he conducted personally to concoct evidence to support his viewpoint (which is that MDMA isn't as harmful as policy makers believe, and that there may be therapeutic uses whose development is precluded by bad policy).

You could go for a conspiracy argument that he is in charge of some massive MDMA factory and wants to flog it all to the nation's children, and has cherry-picked and misinterpreted the evidence, but then you'd be a desperate crack-pot, trying in the face of the scientific evidence to justify your own view which is based on what you feel, not what is out there in the world.

Or you could simply agree that the scientific evidence, while flawed for the reasons I outline upthread, suggests that MDMA isn't significantly harmful, because that's what the evidence, as reviewed by a panel of scientific experts employed to give impartial scientific advice to the government, suggests.

Personally I think that life would be much, much better if people would look at the world as it really exists, with an open mind about what they'll see if they open their eyes. There are some questions that science can't answer, but for those where science is perfectly suited, why is it so hard just to look at the evidence and form views and policies from there?

In reply to climb the peak:

You think 30 year olds are supposed to stay at home?

In reply to muppetfilter:

Yeeesss...but it doesn't wait until you have finished drinking to start filtering so if you drink less over the twelve hours there is less to process. Seems perfectly logical to me that eight pints in twelve hours is less likely to leave you intoxicated the next day than eighteen.

In reply to climb the peak: I drink 'cos I like it, I like getting pissed - it's fun.

It also gives me an excuse to lay on the sofa most of Saturday with a bad head and guts.

I also go to clubs, when I feel like it to dance like an arsehole with a load of youngsters, because it's fun. I'm 20 years older than the 30 year olds in Derby, where should I go for a dance?

I can have fun without alcohol and I can have fun without, it's still fun.

In reply to Clarence: Also exercise is said to speed up the processing..

I always run when hungover... steady 4-6 miler.. have some food.. then a harder run later which i can train as normal in...

In reply to climb the peak:

During my late teens and up to meeting my now wife at 26 all i did was take all kinds of chemicals and raved until sunset. Some of the most incredible times of my life spent with some crazy folks. Sometimes on it all weekend. I didnt like the standard club scene personally nor the people it attracts.

As a 37 year old, I still enjoy going out but much prefer a decent boozer with gentler music to the drum & bass I was in to and a decent glass of red, real ale and single malt. Prefereably before, during and after a good bit of grub.

Do what you want to do and find your own groove. Going out into town centres, queing for crap overpriced beer and listening to shite music was a living hell for me then and would be even worse for me now.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I should add that as a professional father of three, I dont condone the use of any recreational drugs. I was merely explaining my own path and that whilst I enjoy a tipple or two, the 'townie' scene wasnt/isn't for me either.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Bloody hell what time did you get on it?!

In reply to ClimberEd:

You what? I'm 32 and go out and socialise as a non drinker. It's not impossible.

In reply to nw:

Generally started at about 9-11pm. Best night I can remember was called Dreamscape 20, The Big Outdoors, which as you can imagine, was a massive party of 20k folks in a field in Northamptonshire.

In reply to Timmd:

While I do drink, pubs do offer a pretty good range of non-alcoholic drinks these days. They're quite happy to sell them, as they tend to be more profitable than alcoholic ones.

Neil

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: I went to the early Dreamscapes, 1-5 I think. Dreamscape 1- 3 were great nights, 4 was poor as it was on the same night as Mythology in Aylesbury, and I was growing our of the scene by Dreamscape 5. The rave years were the best years of my life without a doubt.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Sorry, knobby pedantic joke alert, I'm presuming you meant sunrise. Never mind!

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Pretty much my story too, but add a good few years onto the ages.

I still enjoy a pint and a good single malt, chemicals have gone to be mere memories, but memories of good times with good people.

My biggest concern around chemical use for any generation is the amount of misinformation put out by the anti-drug crowd, in order to further their own "thou shalt not" agenda.

The most stupid thing about that is the way they regularly cause damage, heartache and pain, by giving people bad information to base their choices on in their efforts to prevent people indulging .

Give people good information, and clean, measured, pharmaceutically produced chems, and the level of damage to individuals and society would decrease exponentially.

Muppetflitre gives us a prime example of the wrong way to reduce harm.

In reply to climb the peak:

As an 18 year old lad, presumably a student you're going to be sold the very worst of drinking experiences: Choking down cheap technicolour alcopops and dreadful ice cold 'lager' in a stand-up drinking barn packed with fisters all shouting over the earsplitting noise that passes for music. That's not for everyone and thankfully it's not all most towns offer!

If that's enough to put you off drinking then perhaps you should consider yourself lucky. If it's not then perhaps you should look into businesses offering an experience, environment and product you and your friends are more interested in.

jk

In reply to nw:

Ahem, missed that one. Yes you are correct.

In reply to climb the peak:

One full of hooks post; he's not been back; over 100 responses and still gathering steam...

It's a high score for sure.

In reply to climb the peak:

Pretty much sums up the last 30 years of my life!

In reply to climb the peak:

"I've got this Morbid Fear of dehydration"



Don Whillans.

In reply to Wonko The Sane:

sorry wonko.

not all Scottish people are NEDS is an actranim for Non Educated Deliquant - it is a term given to young males usually from rougher areas whom like to cause trouble for no reason such as random acts of voilence, gang fighting and theft they usually also indulge in highly intoxifing drinks such as buck fast tonic wine and mad dog 20/20 which is normally drunk while outside on a street corner or up the back of a first bus. another feature of the modern day NED is their attire, commonly found wearing tracksuits with the bottoms of them tucked into their socks.

but no we are not all NEDS as i my self was brought up in a 'rougher' area< and by the way im 20.