UKC

I'm currently using Photoshop CS3 for editing my photos, but this doesn't support RAW, (which I've only just started shooting.) Rather than getting hold of CS5, I was thinking about going for Lightroom 4, combined with my existing CS3.

A few reviewers seem to say LR4 is pretty slow (I'd have nothing to compare it to, so can't comment) but was wondering if there would be any compatibility issues when running a newer LR with an older PS, or are they completely stand-alone applications?

In reply to Fraser:

First of all, you should be able to edit RAW files in CS3, you may need to update your version of Adobe Camera Raw to open files created by your camera, however. You should be able to get the latest version from here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.html

There were some complaints about LR4 being slow but personally I've not had any issues, the 4.1 patch is supposed to fix those issues though.

Lightroom is an entirely standalone app, you can export shots from Lightroom and edit them in PS but it doesn't matter what version you have.

Personally, I'd recommend Lightroom over Photoshop anyhow, I edit 95% of my shots entirely in LR now and it's light years ahead of PS in terms of organising stuff.

In reply to Styx:

Thanks very much for the reply and link. I've downloaded the appropriate plug-in for CS3 (ACR v4.3.1) and the update for that. When I try and open the Zip file however, I get an .8bi file, which I take it is the ACR plug-in. Any suggestions as to how I actually put this into PS/Bridge?

When I open Bridge at the moment, I can see all the RAW (NEF) files in their directories, but the "File > open in Camera Raw" option is greyed out. I take it I should be seeing something else there? I don't seem to have an ACR option installed at present.

In reply to Fraser:

Oops, hold that thought. I've found a Read Me file which gives installation instructions, sorry. Hopefully this will work....

In reply to Fraser:

Hmm, too good to be true. I followed these instructions:

1. Exit Photoshop CS3 and Adobe Bridge.
2. Open My Computer.
3. Double-click Local Disk (C.
4. Navigate to Program FilesCommon FilesAdobePlug-InsCS3File Formats.
5. Move the existing Camera Raw.8bi plug-in to another location (for example, a new folder on your
desktop). Ensure you keep this version in case you need to revert back.
6. Copy the Camera Raw plug-in, Camera Raw.8bi, from the download into the same folder as Step 4. 7. Launch Photoshop CS3 or Adobe Bridge.


... but got stumped at step 4 as there was no "File Formats" directory. I tried creating one and putting the .8bi file into that, but the ACR option is still greyed out when I launch Bridge.

Any suggestions / tips?

In reply to Fraser: Lightroom is much better, I find, at sharpening than PS/Camera RAW. not sure if they use a different algorithm or something but it's much better.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

CR and LR 'should' be the same (as long you are using latest versions) as they are using the same processing engine.

In reply to ChrisJD:

My problem is that I can't seem to get CR to work with my CS3. The folder hierarchy described in the Adobe instructions differs from what I see on my computer.

In reply to Fraser:

Buy LR4 - its the only way to go and is a steal at the price.

Download the demo to try first.

Here are some tips on optimising PC for LR.

http://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/blog/will-an-ssd-improve-adobe-lightroom-p...

The SSD link is worth a read even if you are not interested in an SSD

http://www.pixiq.com/article/camera-raw-cache

In reply to ChrisJD:

Cheers Chris, I'll check out those links. I noticed there was a Trial Download option on the Adobe site so I'll have a peek at that and see how it works.

In reply to Fraser:

Did you reboot after installing the 8b file?

Maybe also be differences in file location between windows versions XP-W7?

In reply to ChrisJD:

Err, nope, I just restarted PS and went into Bridge. Schoolboy error? (still doesn't explain the lack of correct folder hierarchy though)

I'll try doing it again and restarting.

Incidentally, I have two folders in the C: drive: "Programme Files" and "Programme Files (x86)" It's the latter one which has the almost complete hierarchy so I've been sticking it in there and opening PS - reckon that's correct?

In reply to ChrisJD:

Should have said I'm running Win7 on a 64bit machine.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Okay, I've now tried rebooting after installing the 8b file but still no dice.

In reply to Fraser:

Any use?:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/756419

In reply to ChrisJD:

Thanks. I was beginning to have a similar thoughts in fact. To see the raw files my D5000 creates, I think CS3 (and the corresponding latest version of ACR which will run within it) might simply be too old.

I've downloaded the LR trial however, so will have a play on that and see if I can justify splashing the cash. Cheers again for your input.

In reply to Fraser: You really need to just get Lightroom Fraser. I think it is as good as everyone claims. You won't be disappointed. And RAW deff the way to go! We pretty much have the same set up as well. D5000 and Sigma 10-20mm....although I never use photoshop....

In reply to Fraser:

i have a win7 64 bit machine here with cs5, the camera raw plgin is here

C:Program FilesCommon FilesAdobePlug-InsCS5File Formats

i expect you'll just have to change "cs5" to "cs3" on your machine

if it's not there, then use window search to find it?

In reply to Fraser:
Seems as if Adobe started supporting the D5000 from ACR 5.4 which came out with CS4.
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4524
Later versions of ACR than 4.3 are simply incompatible with CS3 so you're stuck with ACR 4.3 as you mention. And even if you could get it to work, it won't open D5000 NEF files.

As others have said, your best option is probably LR4.

However if you want to process a RAW file in CS3 your other option is the free Adobe DNG converter which will migrate your NEF RAW files to DNG RAW format. ACR 4.3 will open DNG files (if you can get it working!). This does have the advantage that it costs precisely nowt.

Paul

In reply to dj_brigham05:

Thanks Dave, I might just do that. Going to play with the trial version I've downloaded first though to check it out.



In reply to rallymania:
Yep, think that's where I was looking but didn't have quite the same file path. Will check again this evening whenI get home.


In reply to Paul Evans:
Thanks for the suggestion, I saw the converter on the download page too, so might try that assuming - as you say - that I can get ACR 4.x working! Maybe if it's DNG files rather than NEF it might work rather than be greyed out.

Cheers folks.

In reply to Fraser:

Fraser, I'll back the line of "just get LR4". It's completely changed how I manage and maintain my image library, how I edit photos, how I print them and how I present them online.

It's not perfect but it means that usually only <5% of my images go anywhere near photoshop which is far quicker.

Have fun playing with the demo!

In reply to hindu:

And the new controls in the 2012 Develop Module are just great.

Plus the Map module - fantastic and fun to use: no more location keywording!

And Blurb books....

And the tweaks to Print - the saved Prints is a nice touch.

And it's half the price of LR3.

All it needs now is built is HDR and Stitching (which to be honest isn't that much faff at the moment using Photomatix and AutoPanoPro).

In reply to Fraser:

LR4 is, as everyone is saying, very very good at what it does. But it isn't Photoshop, so if you need layers, cloning, more precise sharpening tools etc you'll need something else to go with it. I find Elements 10 allied with LR4 does 100% of my PP work for about £150.

In reply to ChrisJD:

As for HDR - with gradient masks and highlights/black recovery sliders you can have a pretty high dynamic range...

I still stitch in photoshop and can't imagine changing that too soon.

Now that I've got the portraiture plugin for skin tone adjustment and smoothing, photoshop get's even less action (it's revolutionised my wedding photography workflow!).

In reply to Fraser:

I recently installed the LR4.1 trial and to be honest I'm impressed by how much more quickly I can now process my RAW shots. With ACR and CS4 I would use ACR to set white balance and recover highlights & shadows and then open in CS4 and spend a lot of time sorting out noise, tone curves, saturation and sharpening.

With the 2012 process in LR4.1, the tonal and colour controls are very good and the noise reduction is superb. The only things for me to do in CS4 are unsharp mask and save to jpg for publishing (and you could do that in LR to be honest but the unsharp mask in Photoshop is still better than the sharpening in LR).

It's the first piece of software that I'm actually considering paying for.

In reply to Jimbo C: 'It's the first piece of software that I'm actually considering paying for'

So where did you get your free version of Photoshop from?

In reply to John2:

That would be telling

It was a few years ago when free downloads were rife. Nowadays, Adobe seems to be cracking down on them. However, the reduced price of LR4 compared to LR3 makes it a more reasonable proposition to pay for it (which I suppose is the desired effect)

In reply to JDal:

I do use layer masks and cloning a fair bit tbh, so would be reluctant to lose that facility, but I can always retain CS3's more detailed functionality in conjunction with LR4.

As a heads up, what are the trial limitations? Is it 30 days use then it stops working or can't you save the edited files, I've yet to open it and find out form myself.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments.

In reply to Fraser:

Yes, that would work just fine, save as 16 bit TIF out of LR4 and then into CS3.


"The trial version is fully functional and offers every feature of the product for you to test-drive."

In reply to Fraser: I would not be at all surprised to see cloning appear in a 4.n release of Lightroom.

In reply to John2:

There has been a clone brush in Local Adjustments since LR2

In reply to ChrisJD: The Luminous Landscape training videos suggest that something more akin to the Photoshop clone tool will appear in the not too distant future.

In reply to ChrisJD:

That's interesting, where is it? There's a spot removal tool, but that isn't a clone brush.

In reply to JDal:

You can run that tool in both heal and clone mode

In reply to Paul Evans: Most of what Paul says is correct but i would advise using Nikon Transfer instead of Bridge to download the files as they are then more easily recognised by your camera.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Yeah, but it's a circle, it's designed for removing dust spots. It's not a brush. It's not much use if you want to clone out, say, a lamp post.

In reply to JDal:

LR calls it a brush

Anyway, what you got against lamposts?

In reply to ChrisJD: Actually, the cloning out of climbing ropes is one of the few reasons I ever go to Photoshop. The adaptive nature of the Photoshop clone tool is infintely superior for this purpose to the Lightroom spot removal tool.