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Been reading the various recent chalk threads.
Chalk works by mopping up our sweat, right? You can use less by drying your hands on your clothes and then using the chalk...... but I realise that this longer operation is not so good for people climbing very hard and at their limit.
But it made me think: maybe instead of developing more chemical substances for soaking up sweat, or blocking it, what we need is for someone to develop a super-absorbent fabric, that when rubbed against skin leaves it far dryer than conventional fabrics.
So instead of chalk bags we'd all have our magically absorbent little towel-type things hanging from our harnesses.
Seems feasible to me?
I wonder if there are other uses for such a fabric in industry ....... if there are some such may already have been developed, but not be in common usage.
Any of you scientific types have any thoughts?
Chalk works by mopping up our sweat, right? You can use less by drying your hands on your clothes and then using the chalk...... but I realise that this longer operation is not so good for people climbing very hard and at their limit.
But it made me think: maybe instead of developing more chemical substances for soaking up sweat, or blocking it, what we need is for someone to develop a super-absorbent fabric, that when rubbed against skin leaves it far dryer than conventional fabrics.
So instead of chalk bags we'd all have our magically absorbent little towel-type things hanging from our harnesses.
Seems feasible to me?
I wonder if there are other uses for such a fabric in industry ....... if there are some such may already have been developed, but not be in common usage.
Any of you scientific types have any thoughts?
In reply to gingerkate:
Maybe something with silica gel woven into it.
Maybe something with silica gel woven into it.
In reply to gingerkate:
Hang on, I'll just get out to my lab and rustle up some super absorbent fabric right now. While I'm there I'll do a bit more on the anti-gravity pods and the super-extra sticky rubber which means we wont have to use our hands at all.
Hang on, I'll just get out to my lab and rustle up some super absorbent fabric right now. While I'm there I'll do a bit more on the anti-gravity pods and the super-extra sticky rubber which means we wont have to use our hands at all.
In reply to gingerkate:
problem is that the chalk continues to soak up whilst you are on a hold. Wiping would not.
I think also that sebacious(sp?) glands respond to dry skin by secreating more oil.The super sucking fabric would have that effect I reckon. I doubt you'd want that.
problem is that the chalk continues to soak up whilst you are on a hold. Wiping would not.
I think also that sebacious(sp?) glands respond to dry skin by secreating more oil.The super sucking fabric would have that effect I reckon. I doubt you'd want that.
In reply to gingerkate: Why not Botox injections for the hands - Paralyse the sweat glands nicely.
Theres nothing wrong with chalk so why change? (cough, splutter)
Theres nothing wrong with chalk so why change? (cough, splutter)
In reply to gingerkate:
Many cycling gloves have absorbent pads sewn into them for wiping sweat off yer forehead. Can't see why climbing trousers shouldn't have such things attached, although getting in between the fingers might be tricky. Also handy for concealing the results of those times when you get really, really, really scared.
Many cycling gloves have absorbent pads sewn into them for wiping sweat off yer forehead. Can't see why climbing trousers shouldn't have such things attached, although getting in between the fingers might be tricky. Also handy for concealing the results of those times when you get really, really, really scared.
In reply to gingerkate: I've done alot of work on super absorbant polymers(like those in sanotary towels), which with certain processing techniques could be made into a fabric. However to get something truley reusable would be difficult.
Also one of the benefits of chalk is that it sticks to your hand for a couple of move or more making it more effective over a longer time. Using a towel would mean having to dry off very frequently. Such a device would be suitable for climbers who don't use much chalk but I personally have to chalk up quite alot in order to get up anything hard as my tips sweat alot, so for me a fabric substitute doesn't sound desirable, although who knows? it might just work.
Also one of the benefits of chalk is that it sticks to your hand for a couple of move or more making it more effective over a longer time. Using a towel would mean having to dry off very frequently. Such a device would be suitable for climbers who don't use much chalk but I personally have to chalk up quite alot in order to get up anything hard as my tips sweat alot, so for me a fabric substitute doesn't sound desirable, although who knows? it might just work.
In reply to boffin:
You can scoff all you like, but the clothes catalogues nowadays have bikinis in fabric that lets through UV, so as you get an all over tan. And who thought that idea up, twenty five years ago? Me, that's who. Only to have my big sister....... a scientific type...... pour scorn on it. So I never followed through on it <oh, I could have been rich, sob sob.....>
Seriously though........ I bet they could invent some such if they put their minds to it.
You can scoff all you like, but the clothes catalogues nowadays have bikinis in fabric that lets through UV, so as you get an all over tan. And who thought that idea up, twenty five years ago? Me, that's who. Only to have my big sister....... a scientific type...... pour scorn on it. So I never followed through on it <oh, I could have been rich, sob sob.....>
Seriously though........ I bet they could invent some such if they put their minds to it.
In reply to gingerkate:
I've seen someone climbing with a bar towel sewn to his bum . . . Fosters, iirc.
I've seen someone climbing with a bar towel sewn to his bum . . . Fosters, iirc.
In reply to gingerkate: Bounty?
In reply to Scouse D:
This is true. But maybe the towel could be impregnated with something that left a very slight residue that did the same job?
Hmmm. I can see it now. Crags littered with little disposal silica-gel impregnated towelettes.........
> Also one of the benefits of chalk is that it sticks to your hand for a couple of move or more making it more effective over a longer time.
This is true. But maybe the towel could be impregnated with something that left a very slight residue that did the same job?
Hmmm. I can see it now. Crags littered with little disposal silica-gel impregnated towelettes.........
In reply to Wingnut:
Wouldn't tattooing be less painful?
> I've seen someone climbing with a bar towel sewn to his bum . . . Fosters, iirc.
Wouldn't tattooing be less painful?
In reply to gingerkate: Could even design some protrusions on the side-call them wings maybe...hmmm....think we're onto something. I might nip into the lab now.
In reply to gingerkate:
But maybe the towel could be impregnated with something that left a very slight residue that did the same job?
What, like resin? Hehe!
> (In reply to Scouse D)
But maybe the towel could be impregnated with something that left a very slight residue that did the same job?
What, like resin? Hehe!
In reply to gingerkate:
Oh no! Rags impregnated with substances to make you climb better! We're moving into pof territory - I suppose that reminds us that this substance has to be shown to be non-polluting.
Oh no! Rags impregnated with substances to make you climb better! We're moving into pof territory - I suppose that reminds us that this substance has to be shown to be non-polluting.
In reply to Greg:
But maybe it could even be chalk? If the rag really dried out your hands, and left a teensy bit of chalk on them?
But maybe it could even be chalk? If the rag really dried out your hands, and left a teensy bit of chalk on them?
In reply to gingerkate:
On a somewhat tangential subject, has anyone seen those weird spiky lizard things that live in australia and drink by standing in puddles?
The capillary action of their skin and scales draws the water up from the ground to their mouth. It's effective even when they are standing on damp ground.
So.. the ideal climber would have GM fingers that are fifty percent gecko, so they could climb on glass, and fifty percent australian spikey mo-fo, so that their sweat would be efficiently eliminated and recycled.
On a somewhat tangential subject, has anyone seen those weird spiky lizard things that live in australia and drink by standing in puddles?
The capillary action of their skin and scales draws the water up from the ground to their mouth. It's effective even when they are standing on damp ground.
So.. the ideal climber would have GM fingers that are fifty percent gecko, so they could climb on glass, and fifty percent australian spikey mo-fo, so that their sweat would be efficiently eliminated and recycled.
In reply to Carnage:
>Why not Botox injections for the hands - Paralyse the sweat glands nicely.
Actually some people do have an operation which stops their hands sweating. I know a climber who's had it done, although not for climbing purposes!
>Why not Botox injections for the hands - Paralyse the sweat glands nicely.
Actually some people do have an operation which stops their hands sweating. I know a climber who's had it done, although not for climbing purposes!
In reply to gingerkate:
There are those little bottles of 'liquid chalk' that you pour onto your hands, you rub them in and they leave your hands dry.
A couple of people I know use it, never tried it myself though.
J
There are those little bottles of 'liquid chalk' that you pour onto your hands, you rub them in and they leave your hands dry.
A couple of people I know use it, never tried it myself though.
J
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Did it work - Do this guys hands not sweat at all now? Or was it over sweating and now they're just 'normal'?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Well come on then, don't leave us all in suspence, for what purposes did he have it done?
Well come on then, don't leave us all in suspence, for what purposes did he have it done?
In reply to Ropeboy:
Yep, but if you read the chalk threads it sounds like those are maybe even worse, because of the solvents. (It's not so much the users I'm thinking of, it's the wall staff).
Yep, but if you read the chalk threads it sounds like those are maybe even worse, because of the solvents. (It's not so much the users I'm thinking of, it's the wall staff).
In reply to gingerkate:
What, something like a bar towel with a bit of chalk dusted onto it?
> (In reply to Greg)
> But maybe it could even be chalk? If the rag really dried out your hands, and left a teensy bit of chalk on them?
> But maybe it could even be chalk? If the rag really dried out your hands, and left a teensy bit of chalk on them?
What, something like a bar towel with a bit of chalk dusted onto it?
In reply to Ropeboy: it does work, feels a bit weird as the alcohol evaporates and makes your hands cold, then leves a chalky residue on your hands. Works for me, but sweatier people i know use liquid chalk AND ordinary chalk- hard to chalk up half way up route with liquid stuff!
also, there are those eco balls, with drying agent in. my secondary school now has a climbing wall in the gym, and thesre are the only thing allowed so as not to make it dusty.
also, there are those eco balls, with drying agent in. my secondary school now has a climbing wall in the gym, and thesre are the only thing allowed so as not to make it dusty.
Those wee hairdryers they have at bowling alleys are very good.
In reply to anonymouse: But if you dont use chalk how will the next person up know where the holds are?
In reply to Al Evans:
He he he......... at my level of climbing, and not having very sweaty hands, I don't need chalk outside really. But I'm always grateful for all the 'put your hand here!' chalky semaphores.......
He he he......... at my level of climbing, and not having very sweaty hands, I don't need chalk outside really. But I'm always grateful for all the 'put your hand here!' chalky semaphores.......
In reply to ceri:
we have a wall in the 'old gym' at my secondary school, but chalk is totally banned, because of the 'dust and element'. the guy who runs the wall also wants it to remain clean...
physio sport supergrip is allowed though, but that tends to leave a sticky residue on the holds afterwards. i've used it once or twice but it *really* feels like you're cheating because instead of your hands being dry, they're actually dry and sticky.
we now have a situation where the holds are very greasy, slimey and generally dirty...you have to go round cleaning the holds off with a towel before attempting a problem, because otherwise you slide straight off when you try to hang anything. at one point i even resorted to taking all the holds off one section and cleaning them in hot water, but after a fortnight's use they were just as bad as before.
it's quite a tricky decision for wall staff to make, and i guess it really all comes down to to protecting their backs if they ban it - would you like to be sued because someone develops lung cancer because of the dusty environment?
maybe we should all wear dust masks when we climb...
we have a wall in the 'old gym' at my secondary school, but chalk is totally banned, because of the 'dust and element'. the guy who runs the wall also wants it to remain clean...
physio sport supergrip is allowed though, but that tends to leave a sticky residue on the holds afterwards. i've used it once or twice but it *really* feels like you're cheating because instead of your hands being dry, they're actually dry and sticky.
we now have a situation where the holds are very greasy, slimey and generally dirty...you have to go round cleaning the holds off with a towel before attempting a problem, because otherwise you slide straight off when you try to hang anything. at one point i even resorted to taking all the holds off one section and cleaning them in hot water, but after a fortnight's use they were just as bad as before.
it's quite a tricky decision for wall staff to make, and i guess it really all comes down to to protecting their backs if they ban it - would you like to be sued because someone develops lung cancer because of the dusty environment?
maybe we should all wear dust masks when we climb...
In reply to gingerkate:
One of the other things to consider is that in this climate, anything super-absorbant will get saturated just hanging around most days. just a thought, not pooh-poohing the idea!
Also, i've used liquid chalk, and it makes your hands smell of gin. using it a lot will give you really cracked hands too, I reckon.
One of the other things to consider is that in this climate, anything super-absorbant will get saturated just hanging around most days. just a thought, not pooh-poohing the idea!
Also, i've used liquid chalk, and it makes your hands smell of gin. using it a lot will give you really cracked hands too, I reckon.
In reply to Carnage:
She, as it happens, just had very sweaty hands - as in visibly running with water. I think they can only turn off the relevant gland (or whatever it is) completely, rather than just put it back to normal. I believe hers no longer sweat at all.
Actually, I do wonder whether she still uses chalk. Never noticed.
She, as it happens, just had very sweaty hands - as in visibly running with water. I think they can only turn off the relevant gland (or whatever it is) completely, rather than just put it back to normal. I believe hers no longer sweat at all.
Actually, I do wonder whether she still uses chalk. Never noticed.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Is that the operation where they sever a nerve?
> She, as it happens, just had very sweaty hands - as in visibly running with water. I think they can only turn off the relevant gland (or whatever it is) completely, rather than just put it back to normal. I believe hers no longer sweat at all.
Is that the operation where they sever a nerve?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Hmmm, I feel a plan coming on. Wonder if they cover that on BUPA. Save myself a fortune on chalk....
In reply to anonymoose: I just like chalk, I even used to chalk up to do the vacuuming, to make a job I hate more palatable.
In reply to gingerkate:
No doubt it's been said before, but on easy routes, the best alternative to chalk is not using chalk, it's not necessary. If your hands get a bit sweaty, wipe them on your trousers.
No doubt it's been said before, but on easy routes, the best alternative to chalk is not using chalk, it's not necessary. If your hands get a bit sweaty, wipe them on your trousers.
In reply to Punter Hitch:
So it's not as simple as just not drinking any fluid for 2 days be4 a climb....
> I think also that sebacious(sp?) glands respond to dry skin by secreating more oil.
So it's not as simple as just not drinking any fluid for 2 days be4 a climb....
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I know one climber who had his sweat glands removed for climbing purposes: he's a southern Californian and went to Europe to have this operation performed: cost $10,000.
M
> (In reply to Carnage)
>
> >Why not Botox injections for the hands - Paralyse the sweat glands nicely.
>
> Actually some people do have an operation which stops their hands sweating. I know a climber who's had it done, although not for climbing purposes!
>
> >Why not Botox injections for the hands - Paralyse the sweat glands nicely.
>
> Actually some people do have an operation which stops their hands sweating. I know a climber who's had it done, although not for climbing purposes!
I know one climber who had his sweat glands removed for climbing purposes: he's a southern Californian and went to Europe to have this operation performed: cost $10,000.
M
In reply to gingerkate:
Sorry, hadn't read the other thread.
Have ever looked over the back of the wall or the roof of the cafe at the Fondry, jeez, you wouldn't want to disturb that lot and it makes you think what it might be doing to your lungs.
I wonder if they fitted extractor fans or hoovered up every now and then it would help.
J
> (In reply to Ropeboy)
> Yep, but if you read the chalk threads it sounds like those are maybe even worse, because of the solvents. (It's not so much the users I'm thinking of, it's the wall staff).
> Yep, but if you read the chalk threads it sounds like those are maybe even worse, because of the solvents. (It's not so much the users I'm thinking of, it's the wall staff).
Sorry, hadn't read the other thread.
Have ever looked over the back of the wall or the roof of the cafe at the Fondry, jeez, you wouldn't want to disturb that lot and it makes you think what it might be doing to your lungs.
I wonder if they fitted extractor fans or hoovered up every now and then it would help.
J
In reply to gingerkate:
I don't know if anyone has said this already, but I believe the All-blacks use sopmething like this on their shorts, so that they can grip the ball more easily.
I think it's inside the pockets.
I don't know if anyone has said this already, but I believe the All-blacks use sopmething like this on their shorts, so that they can grip the ball more easily.
I think it's inside the pockets.
In reply to withey:
Really? No, no-one else has said that. Interesting.
Really? No, no-one else has said that. Interesting.
In reply to withey:
So they put their hands in their pockets in order to grip the ball more easily... And they do this in public?
> I don't know if anyone has said this already, but I believe the All-blacks use sopmething like this on their shorts, so that they can grip the ball more easily.
>
> I think it's inside the pockets.
>
> I think it's inside the pockets.
So they put their hands in their pockets in order to grip the ball more easily... And they do this in public?
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