In reply to Ian Hill:
> (In reply to blanchie14c)
>
> Curious how quickly these things become 'part of these routes', Shivers Arête for instance when I first did it in the early 80s very much had no peg and that was why it got its E3 5b grade, the peg appeared a few years after that and now it seems has become 'historical'...but the no peg situation is even more historical...
Nah.... there was a peg in the past, but it was removed a couple of times. It did get up to E3 5b quite rightly if done without, but wasn't popular that way so John put in the cemented on that everyone sees nowadays.
I seem to recall though that the placement was a bit flared (it had been placed and removed a few times remember) and to secure it and to make sure it wasn't robbed, John cemented it in place.
BTW, apart from being around 30 years old, it was also quite short. Might even have been sawn off.
Phil