UKC

Need to kick start my climbing mojo.
Want a trip with a goal in the next year and a half (thereabouts).

So Astroman and the rostrum: Are they E4 or E5?
Been to the states before and know that cracks are way different.

Only thing is that if it's hard E4, I might manage with lots of specific training... If it's E5, well that's another story.

Any feedback welcome, banter too, and really might even read trolls in the bargain.

In reply to French Erick:

Noble goal. Yosemite grades dont translate well but they are in the E4/5 region and I would say that unless you are likely to be at least an E5 climber to flash them. Very hard to train for this sort of thing in this country although Tom Randall and Pete Whittaker found a way and then some. For most having 6 weeks out there and working your way up through the grades is best.

In reply to French Erick:

Simon has summed it up nicely there.

Back in 95 I was at the end of a 5 month trip round the States, pretty much solid on 5l's almost everwhere I went, as fit as I've ever been, did loads in The Valley, serenety cracks etc (possibly solid E3 leader with some E4's and the odd E5 under my belt)

Astroman spanked me. (twice!)

E

In reply to French Erick:

Not been on Astroman but I thought the Rostrum was bottom end E4/ sustained E3. Only two tricky pitches - the finger crack off the half-height ledge and the hand crack pitch one below the top. I had one rest on the crux of the finger crack due to debilitating heat, but I suspect if they were individual pitches on a Uk crag (say Tremadoc) in normal temps, they'd not warrant more than E3. The rest are more like HVS/ E1, though you want to be happy on jams as there's a lot of 'em. Great route.

I always had Astroman in my mind as being a full grade harder, so never got on it. Although the listed grade wouldn't support that, anecdotes tend to...

In reply to French Erick: Hiya, as others have said a long trip is ideal to ' acclimatise' to Yosemite. As much as anything I really struggled with the heat. But I did get used to it and did these routes without much trouble after about 3 weeks. I'd hardly climbed for months before the trip so was ready to get stuck in. Astroman is def a notch harder and it would be hard to frig the Harding Slot I think. West Face of El Cap is just as good too, and obviously Half Dome Reg NW Face. I also did The Nose in a day, so that's achievable if Astroman feels ok.
The best route I did by far was Lost Arrow Chimney. This doesn't seem popular, perhaps because it'd be hard to bail off, unlike most other routes in the valley.
Hope you have a great trip, Ross.

In reply to French Erick:

can do some jamming. Been to the valley and done serenity crack and EF of El cap amongst other things.

My intention is to go there for a 2/3 weeks Hols. Don't think family and work life will allow me more.

Training in the UK: my thinking was trips to the grit (millstone, curbar,), fairhead, torridonian cracks and plenty long mountain routes (my fav thing anyway). I'd be seeking all the horrible, chimneys and off-width on all of the above trips to steel myself mentally for the slot!

I'd be going with my trustee and super sleek pal, so we would be able to shift on the easier pitches.

I would fully expect full-on battle with victory/defeat behind a very close call with the training... not a chance without.

On a less serious note but still... if I get astroman first go, i'd be moving onto Romantic warrior. (I know: wishful thinking but...).

Thanks for all answers thus far.

In reply to French Erick: Did astroboy earlier this year (first half) and apart from enduro corner it was pretty easy (if your an e4 climber). Enduro corner is not so much hard - you just need to get your technique right so you can move efficiently before getting pumped out of your mind. The pitch is super safe tho so psychologically easier than e4/5.

I would just say to get some crack experience - likelyhood is for the first week or so you will get crushed as the climbing style is so different.

As for the rest of the route - can't help you.

In reply to French Erick:

I'm a bit in the same situation as you. I'm very keen to give The Rostrum a go this Autumn (Astroman is probably a bit beyond me now, though it's been on my to do list for more than thirty years). However, living in your country of origin doesn't help my crack climbing. All I ever seem to do nowadays is girlie French climbing on crimpy little holds. I'm not really afraid of the route as it's well protected and I've even got Enty's no 6 Friend for the wide bits, but if there are two things I hate when climbing, they are a) being stuck behind countless numbers of people who are all stuck behind the slowest team on the planet, and b) actually being that slowest team...

Now, I'm going to build a crack machine...

In reply to JTM:

I'm on a crack machine chain of thoughts too. Will be moving to a house with a shed too. Don't think it needs to be big. Just needs a bit of thoughts: requirements of changeable crack size to do exercises on it, leading to exercises with weights?

Have the wide boys ever written a piece on their crack machine?

In reply to JTM:

Trust 98.5% of my fellow contryfolk climbers to only do crimpy, hard but safe bolt climbing.
The vast majority of my pals home have a laughable notion of what trad is about!

In reply to French Erick:


Yes, I think they did, though it was specifically for wide cracks if I remember correctly. My thoughts are four lengths of ply measuring maybe 2.5m x 30cm. These would be spaced with blocks of wood to provide a finger crack, a hand crack and a wider crack. If you need to economise, then two bits of ply are enough, you just have to change the spacers when you want to change the crack size. My thoughts are that although it's important to work on hands, it's also important for the feet - especially on finger cracks - hence the height. One thing that climbing quite a bit in Yosemite (years and years ago) taught me is that no matter how fit you feel on normal climbing, the specific muscles you need for crack climing are totally different. Sadly, the reverse is also true...

In reply to JTM:

I remember the offwidth on the Rostrum as being easier than I expected, its not a pure splitter and becomes slabbier and more of a corner as you get higher. Seem to remember a few helpful little features inside the crack too. One of the few wide cracks I did which felt no harder than the given grade.

In reply to JTM: Have you thought about using large G-clamps so the panels are adustable? You could then have the panels flare if you wanted or easily go from finger cracks to hand sized cracks, without haveing to fiddle about with chocks. I may have a look at this later. Or if you had the panels fitted to threaded bars... I don't know, I'm on a bus and bored.

In reply to tspoon1981:

My plan was to have threaded bars (or long bolts) through the panels. I don't understand your G-clamp thing...?

In reply to JTM: I'm a) terrible at describing stuff and b) on a bus so can't do a nice doodle in ms paint. Threaded bars work though. I was just thinking about ease of adjustment, the last thing you want is a mounted crack machine that's a faff to adjust and you end up training one specific style of jam or get bored. Well, I would, but that's because I have the attention span of a toddler. When you build it you should post a few pictures.

In reply to Adam Long:

I'm very pleased to hear that, Adam! Which of the two off widths do you mean? As I understand it both the 7th and 9th pitches are off width.

In reply to French Erick:

The hardest move on Astroman is the move to get a jug at the base of the Harding Slot. First time up I was shut down on the move but second time up with second hand beta from Peter Croft no less I flashed it.


******BETA ALERT*******

The move is on a slanting crack with a stuck wire (dont waste energy trying to clip) and you have half in thumbs pointing towards each other hand jams. I think your left foot goes in the crack and your right leg behind your left leg with knee against the flare which enables you to reach for the jug.

Also - this one leg straight and the other behind it bent is a good way to shunt up chimneys if you can master it. I'm sure Randall has a name for it. My partner shot up the Harding Slot with ease doing this. I just did an exhausting udge inch by inch. You follow an "S" shaped path in the slot starting at the back heading out then back in again then out again.

In reply to JTM:

I haven't got a topo to hand, but if there are two offwidths a pitch apart, presumably the 9th is the last pitch? Its about 20 ft long and you can layback it, if a little boldly, at about HVS. If you watch that 60 minutes film of Honnold, for some reason they show a short clip of it repeatedly.

In reply to Adam Long:

Ah, thanks for that. Yes, I've seen the clip of the last pitch.

In reply to JTM:

If you've made it that far it won't be a problem I'm sure...

In reply to JTM:

Good luck on the Rostrum Jon, I did it in 2009, super route but not as good as Serenity/Sons

In reply to shark:

How skinny do you have to be to get in the Harding Slot? Is it really narrow?

Chris

In reply to Jon:

If you're not used to that kind of thing, the 10a offwidth two pitches from the top on The Rostrum is by far the crux pitch. I'd definitely take a big cam or two and be prepared for a bit of a battle. As Adam said, the one on the top pitch is pretty steady as you can layback it and it's just easier anyway. Thought the rest of the route was pretty reasonably graded (as others have said - hard E3 / easy E4 overall but probably no single pitch harder than E3 - the "crux" 11c pitch is basic finger jamming - steady away if you've got a bit of stamina or done things like Serenity Crack). Great route.

In reply to Nemo:

I think you'd have to be a pretty unbalanced climber to find a 10a wide pitch harder than an 11c fingers pitch. Bit of a thrutch, yes, 'by far the crux', no way. I needed a rest on the 11c pitch, my partner fell on both the hand cracks, but we both got up the wide pitch okay.

In reply to Adam Long: I thought the 10a OW was way harder than the 11c fingers and I seconded the OW! Depends on your thing I guess!

In reply to moonman10:

+1

In reply to French Erick:
>> I'd be going with my trustee and super sleek pal, so we would be able to shift on the easier pitches.


Is that me? It doesn't sound like me.

In reply to shark:

Wow. You guys must find grades pretty confusing things then...

In reply to Adam Long:

It is just my 2 cents. Seems like you are a OW WAD. Count yourself lucky.

In reply to Enty:

Me too! Just once though.

My story of Astroman involved a whole month trying to get a partner to try it with (tricky, as it's such as a big rep route). Then getting on it on a blazing July day. We got to the Harding Slot, which my partner had volunteered to lead (winner!), but he got stuck in it for over an hour, tore his T shirt to shreds, had a pee in there, then drank all his water once he emerged at the top virtually in tears. Meanwhile I was just about passing out from heat stroke on the belay. Needless to say, down we went.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Did you have a return bout?

In reply to Tom Briggs:

That makes a much better story than "Yeah, we just cruised it, no worries"

Rich.

In reply to Richard White:

Doesn't it just! I can remember Douggie Hall and Jim Moran doing it in about 1981 ish and proudly walking back into Camp 4 after their ascent holding a karabiner that had snapped clean in two after Douggie (I think) had fallen on it.

In reply to Chris Shorter:

Think Monolith Crack (Ogwen). If you can fit in that, you should fit in the Slot.

As others have said, it's the hideous flare (on the same pitch) below the slot which is the hard bit...

In reply to moonman10:


Yeah Adam. You the man

In reply to Andy2:

I forgot to mention, my partner fell off getting into the slot and ripped his #2 Camalot straight out of the (very smooth sided parallel crack). Never trusted Camalots...

Jon - no, that was '95 and I have only been back to Yosemite once since. I must be due another trip soon.

In reply to shark:

Hmm, well, if it makes you feel better.

My point was that I'm not some crack specialist. As long as the OP hasn't spent his whole life carefully avoiding cracks I don't think he need worry. It easier than Elder crack for instance, isn't it?

In reply to Andy2:

Ah, no chance then. Monolith Crack was a bit tight when I was 20 but I've been drinking a good quantity of beer for 30 years since! Bet Jon will still be OK now!

Chris

In reply to Adam Long:

Elder Crack is piss - only a numptie would jam it

In reply to shark:

Rostrum 5.11c pitch. Really nice, friendly E4. Like an E4 millstone crack.
Rostrum offwidth. Not too bad. Doesn't require proper technique, hence people still get up it fine without specific skills.
Rostrum top offwidth. Easier, but more exposed. I was terrified.

Astroman enduro corner. Amanzing and pumpy.
Astroman harding slot. Don't worry too much about beta. As soon as you get to it, you're instantly confused and can't remember a thing anyone told you!! It's quite tight, but only an issue if you were perhaps 13/14 stone or more?? Definitely doesn't require offwidth technique just squeeze chimney technique. Frog your legs, get pushing and enjoy the nausea.

Both mega ticks. You'll be so happy when you've done them.

In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training: It's also worthwhile checking out the descent from astroman beforehand by doing royal arches/crest jewel and then you'll not get lost on the actual day.

In reply to JTM: As if by magic.

http://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=421122081263472&id=185429188166097...

Sonnie Trotter has made just what you're looking for.

In reply to French Erick:

Oh dear... it's gonna be hard, innit?

My trustee partner, not you dave- it's got to be that scandi blonde with a beautiful body and cranking real hard at the crag, the kind of partner I have- is doubting my ability to get to that. Perhaps rightly so.

Methinks, lots and lots of mileage with this in mind before commiting the time and money to it.

As stated in my post E4 a possibility. E5 not really unless my climbing improves dramatically.

In reply to tspoon1981:

Yes, that's what I was thinking, though parallel to prolong the pain. I thought of having other widths side by side so you didn't have to adjust the whole thing when you wanted another size.

In reply to French Erick:
When you're there, don't miss out on the big face routes on Middle Cathedral (Stoners Highway), and Fairview Dome (Heart of Stone, Mr Kamps etc) up in Toulumne...good fun while your hamburgered hands are healing

In reply to Adam Long:
It easier than Elder crack for instance, isn't it?

No way, Elder crack is piss compared to the offwidth for sure.
My "soft" European climbing partner at the time climbed the wall just to the left to avoid that particular offwidth to the amazment of some Czech climbers above him.
I found it fairly gruesume & polished as only Yosemite offwidths can be.
The rest of the route is brilliant by the way.

In reply to walts4:

Are you implying an accomplished climber like Adam is talking out of his arse ??!!

Surely not

In reply to shark:


Not one to have words put in my mouth, but possibly in this case Adam must be a little confused or his memory is failing him.
Is it an age thing??

In reply to shark:


I'm can only go on what I experienced - folk talked it up beforehand, but it didn't live up to it. The fact that what I found tallied perfectly with the given grades suggested said folk were blowing things out of proportion. My only offwidth training consisted of my regular soloing circuit at Stanage - VSs like Green Crack and Y-crack.

Was your ascent before or after your Right Eliminate escapades?

This captures the atmosphere on The Rostrum nicely:

youtube.com/watch?v=-vkNA2MhpcU&

In reply to Adam Long:

Don't worry Adam - even shit climbers have once in a lifetime moments like this. I thought Ressurection was HVS and easier than Left wall.



E

In reply to Nemo:

Yeah looks piss

E

In reply to Adam Long:



Did the Rostrum and Astroman in Spring 1997