UKC

Recently scrambled the River Esk Gorge and then Ill Gill on the side of Kirk Fell. Bolts have appeared on both routes and seem (I'm guessing) to be the work of a guide taking paying clients. The expansion bolts are set up with rings and are at convenient belay stances.

Is anyone aware of any other bolts creeping into our Lake District Gills?

There were none in pier’s gill last weekend. There was a couple of places where a bolt would have been really good though.

Sad Gil has some 

Also some in Newlands valley. Can't recall if it is Ill Gyll or Stoneycroft

Given how sensitive these environments are, this seems quite concerning. Gills are one of the few remaining areas of relative biodiversity in the Lakes. They're not playparks for rich idiots or hordes of school children.

It's not just the gills. Fixed gear has slowly started creeping into lakeland mountain crags too over the years. Fixed chains on gimmer & broad stand, bolts on sergeant crag slabs.

What next will the new wall-bred climbers demand?

I expect it's mainly guided canyoning groups.

Personally, I'm not concerned. Placing bolts in the right place allows ropes to be pulled down the clean waterlines.

I’d actually expect climbers/scramblers to do more damage, scurrying around the edges where plants grow and scavenging for gear.

Those are all cases where fixed gear is beneficial, e.g. to avoid erosion, and in line with the broad consensus of climbers.

It's more nuanced than a yes or no to fixed gear... Let's focus on the gills rather than getting distracted.

On the contrary, I'd expect regular, repeated use by groups to be more impactful than occasional use by people in ones and twos.

Thanks. Don't know Sad Gill. Is it possible you mean Sandbed Gill?

I've not been up/down Stoneycroft Gill (under Causey Pike), but I've certainly seen the hordes of scramblers in organised groups (sometimes over 100 people at a time). The rule set by the LDNP is only groups up to 15, but then several operators turn up at once and, before you know it, you have a sizeable army of scramblers. It wouldn't surprise me to see bolts here, given the need to speed the clients through the system and not have the next set of punters waiting too long.

Your bigotry doesn't appear especially nuanced

Sorry, was being lazy. Sadgill seems to be the name of the hamlet. Basically the river in the main valley on the south side of Gatesgarth pass near Stavekley

Yes, spotted some in Dungeon Ghyll last weekend.

Those canyoning on pull through trips will generally stick to the main water course and have practically zero environmental damage.

However, us scramblers, climbers and gill bashers will dance around the margins much more.

I do think some water courses should be embargoed for all time. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just concerned about an environment like the Esk Gorge getting trashed.

perhaps that's why they decided on fixed gear; where it's benefficial, e.g. to avoid erosion, and in line with the broad consensus of canyoners.

Sergeant slabs is to stop erosion though? Been there for a while now.

Some Ochil gorges are also bolted for/by canyoneering groups.

Longsleddale of Postman Pat fame.

The Esk area has been subjected to heavy use in recent years, but much of the 'damage' isn't by organised groups, it is from the fly-camping community with their bbq's and beer cans. Abandoned tents fully loaded with trashed kit and all the litter blowing about the hillside and into the water. One could argue that organised groups have helped popularise this gorgeous place, but I think that's only a weak argument and social media has much more to answer for.

I use the Esk gorge as a work venue and have done for around 10 years. Yes there are times when we need to venture onto the sides of the river, but I honestly try to keep this to an absolute minimum as I realise the verges are sensitive and easily damaged. It is often possible and always our aim to be in the water pretty much the whole time. When jumping in to the pools this is done from rocky areas on the bank and not soft verges. So overall our interaction with the vegetation is minimal.

I wasn't aware of any bolts in the Esk. In Lingcove which is a tributary, then yes there are numerous bolts for a canyon descent. But in the Esk they are simply not needed so would be a waste of time and money, not to mention potentially unsightly.

When you say 'recently', how recent? I know the Esk as a gorge trip very well and can't say I've come across any bolts. There is no need for any either. In Lingcove Beck there are numerous bolted belays set up for a canyon descent, could you be mixing up the two venues?

Quite a few other Lakeland gills have bolts yes. Five venues come to mind immediately. The bolts are generally not obvious to a passer by, so not a visual issue.

Yes the bolting will very likely be the work of a guide operating in these venues. Don't know who it is, but for the most part they are doing quite a nice job.   

That was my thoughts as well. The overridingly fabulous thing about the Esk Gorge is that it is sustained for its full length at almost exactly the same grade and is all imminently soloable, with the exception of the final fall. No idea why anyone would want to bolt it