UKC

Momentarily weighted a piece of gear on a lead climb as I lent back to push on up (my partner had the rope tight as I was scared). Didn't rest on it at all but it did give me a psychological boost as made me trust the gear more

Recording it as "Onsight" seems a little dishonest.

But recording it as "With rest/falls (Dogged)" seems incorrect.

I guess it only matters to me and that I can just note what happened in the log, but as a relative newbie just interested in what other people do?

In reply to noteviljoe:

I would say dogged within the context of UKC, but hey at least you got to the top. Personally, I get a lot more satisfaction from arriving at the top of a route dogged or otherwise than I do from failing to complete, so in that sense I agree with you. A red cross in your log book, does seem a bit harsh. Perhaps an amber light if a traffic light model was being used. I do seem to be more mountaineer than climber though these days.

In reply to noteviljoe:

Was it epitaph corner (in your logbook).
It's Hobson Moor and your profile says your in Manchester.
Go back. Do it properly. You know it makes sense.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Totally agree dd. The OP is obviously unsure and not happy. Down to conscience I guess.? Go back, do it 'clean' and laugh at this later...

In reply to AP Melbourne:

Ah buts whats better a minor involuntary indiscretion or a subsequent beta ascent? I'd stick with the first and move on; plenty more routes out there!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Up to the person in question really. Obviously not fully comfy with the style so again, go back and do it in a style which you're (he/she's) happy to sleep with.
F*ck 'beta' go with the heart.
Here's an example from yonks ago: Was trying to free an old Rowland Edward aid route on the Great Orme and was falling off backwards when the loop on my harness caught on a tiny nubbin. Just enought to pull back on and finish the route.
A well-known climber with a London accent was gearing up for a route to the left and I asked 'was that you resting on a peg on Zukator last Saturday Stevie'?. He called me a w*nker and started to undo his harness ... I legged it, fearing for my life - and that's why he never spoke to me for three years 'til The Dervish ... True! Its all in the book (sorry, blatant plug).

In reply to AP Melbourne:

Can't cross the same river twice or swap a dog for new tricks......

In reply to noteviljoe:

There's a few blurry lines. Recently I had to reach down to piece of gear I had climbed above, and though I said 'take' there was so much rope out it didn't take my weight, but I could feel some tension in the line. Not much more than you would feel from rope drag at the top of a long route. I wouldn't have fallen take or no take, if I did fall I would have gone a lot lot further, so for me it didn't really count as dogged. Dogged is shortened from hangdogged - and I didn't hang on the rope..... right??

In reply to noteviljoe:

Other people do whatever they want because unless you're sponsored or a local wad no one cares

In reply to Cheese Monkey:


Ding ding.... if you're not makin' ground breakin' new routes or repeats... the only purpose of the logbook is to keep notes of the routes you've climbed or tried... oh, and if trollin' for partners, well they might be keen top see what kind of climbs you've done (so to evaluate if the ambitions and skill levels match).

That said, be honest... if you weight gear on a free climb... it ain't free and you haven't climbed it cleanly.

In reply to noteviljoe:

Personally I'd say that's onsight, as you didn't fall or rest. If it's not onsight then in a lot of cases top roping would be considered as dogged as the belayer might have pulled the rope tight right?

Anyhow, it's your personal record and unless you are claiming some ground breaking record who cares, it's up to you if you felt it was clean or not!

Thanks for all the replies.

Like I said in original post, I'm aware it only matters to me but nice to feel like the personal game you are playing is being governed by roughly the same kind of rules as others are playing by (for me this helps give the whole activity meaning).

Anyway, I recorded it as dogged because it felt not quite like a tick for me, or more precisely it felt not quite how I wanted to do it.

Really frustrating as I know I could have done it, but I guess that is always the way.

I'm sure I'll care less about this stuff if I ever manage to start getting a good volume of climbing done (young kids, working away & this shitty wet simmer all conspiring against me atm)

In reply to noteviljoe:

On my logbook I'd record that as onsight.

Sounds like you didn't gain any physical advantage, as you only just felt the rope, you didn't get any rest on it or upward momentum from it. So it sounds like you would have done the route whether it had happened or not.

In reply to noteviljoe:

My middle way is just record as lead (for minor sins like steadying myself on a draw as I place it on a Sport route ...the slow motion click trick). Dog for falls, multiple rests, either I messed up or over-reached. Lead for near misses or can't remembers, O/S for the indisputable ones.
Like you say, all personal stuff of little genuine importance!

In reply to noteviljoe:

As long as you're climbing, does it really matter? Just keep doing what you're doing! You're not proving anything to anyone! At the end of the day, you will always know exactly what happened on the route.

In reply to mountain.martin:

He said himself: it gave him a pschological boost

In reply to springfall2008:


Who on earth records 'onsight' toproping anyway?!? It's bad enough people log 'onsight' seconds on this site

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Onsight just means climbed without prior knowledge of the route and clean first time right. Style of ascent is orthogonal??

In reply to noteviljoe:

I wouldn't worry about it.

In reply to springfall2008:

>Style of ascent is orthogonal??

I've tried to log my ascents as orthogonal but I can't find the box to tick.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

It made him trust his gear more, but he didn't rest on it he said. To me that isn't dogged - but I don't care enough to mind about differing opinions.

In reply to noteviljoe:

Of course it was dogged - you should be ashamed. What's next, a dabbed flash?

In reply to noteviljoe:


Keep quiet and develop amnesia immediately afterwards

At the end of the day, it's only a hobby. Just have fun and enjoy the ride.

In reply to aln:


Anything that's a traverse...

In reply to aln:

Groan

In reply to Timmd:

Me neither but if you're asking the 'did I od did i not dog it?'question then you know what the answer is really!

In reply to Bulls Crack:
It depends on whether you're right to be asking I guess?

From a philosophical point of view - not all questions we ask ourselves are warranted.

We many find some peace by not asking ourselves some of the questions we do... ' ping '

In reply to HeMa:


See that letter you use at the end of the word "ding"? You could use it instead of all those final apostrophes. Just a thought.

In reply to bpmclimb:

I can? Oh the horror, I've been mistypin' all this time...

In reply to noteviljoe:

Log as onsight and add a note to it?

In reply to HeMa:

Just curious, really. It's pretty unusual to use apostrophe instead of g by default. Is it because that's how you talk? Or is it an inverted-snobbery sort of thing?

In reply to bpmclimb:

It's because " ' " is easier to type for me than " g ", and oddly enough within the bastardization of english (see, English (US)).

In reply to HeMa:

Fair dos

For anyone who was worried about my integrity I logged it as dogged with a note.

Would have been my first VS

Sigh

In reply to noteviljoe:

It is onsight in the sense that you presumably just turned up and went for it after looking at it (from the ground).

In reply to noteviljoe:

Why not just claim the piece of gear you weighted was a belay you were testing but decided you were unhappy with and carried on to look for something better? Does it count as dogged if you belay more often than the FA?

In reply to noteviljoe:

In my experience most just lie. Have friends who have been hauled up on second and said how easy and nice the route was, others have fallen off, pulled on the gear, top roped a route repeatedly and claimed onsight. It only matters to you! Don't worry about what you put in your logbook, it is only an ego trip in there.

In reply to Oujmik:

We've had that discussion already.

Search 'are belays classed as aid?' In summary, yes

In reply to Oujmik:

Good ploy as long as it isn't a hanging belay.

In reply to noteviljoe:

I was wondering the other day about the difference between a rest and a fall. I mean in particular for sports climbs I think it's quite normal to take rests. But if you climb the route with rests but no falls surely that's "better" than with falls, but we count those both as dogged (red X) on the site...

In reply to springfall2008:

As others have said, the game can be anything you want it to be and in the end it is only really relevant to the individual. However, for most sport climbers I would say that doing a climb with rests or falls is the same thing. i.e. the route has not been done clean. Slight rests on gear is also the same thing. i.e there has been assistance.

In reply to springfall2008:

Rests is only better if the gear is so doubtful that it wouldn't hold a fall. Otherwise there's no difference and arguably better to do a route with a fall as at least you'd gone for it onsight rather than just giving in.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

For trad maybe, but for sports you have bolts so resting is almost totally safe. Surely if you don't fall then you have managed all the moves correctly first time, but you just didn't have the stamina for the route?

In reply to springfall2008:

Yes but stamina is just as important if you're going for the onsight. You could fall off due to being too pumped despite being able to read and do the moves.

In reply to noteviljoe:


Sorry, I do sympathize - it can hurt a bit to see an ascent greyed out - but the fact is that your ascent was dogged. Clean lead means no tight rope and no weighting of gear, and as far as UKC definitions are concerned, "onsight" means clean onsight, with no prior knowledge except that gained from a guidebook entry.

In reply to johncook:


Maybe you happen to know a lot of liars. In my experience most use UKC as a handy place to keep an accurate record of their climbing. Lying in your own logbook is pointless and stupid - where does it end? Maybe I'll just check every route at Malham, hit enter, and log them all as onsight leads (I've never even climbed there).

In reply to bpmclimb:

It is a number of acquaintances who I know for sure fib a bit. Made an unfortunate extrapolation.
I keep my own private honest log, and note any variations from the norm in that, and will tell others if I dogged a route, or practised it. I am climbing purely for my own satisfaction so only my honest opinion of me is important.