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Right, so i have 1 50m Single dynamic rope, and 1 60M Static rap rope, can i tie these together and descend the full 55m on them? or is it more technical than that?
cheers
Sam
cheers
Sam
In reply to blob737:
I'd be wary of tying the two together and going on both as the difference in flexibility and diameter will affect how well the knots work. I'm pretty sure you need to use a certain type of knot to be safe.
To be honset, a simpler system would be to use the dynamic rope as a pull-line, so you only weight the static. If you do a search on here, you should find a description of how to do it.
I'd be wary of tying the two together and going on both as the difference in flexibility and diameter will affect how well the knots work. I'm pretty sure you need to use a certain type of knot to be safe.
To be honset, a simpler system would be to use the dynamic rope as a pull-line, so you only weight the static. If you do a search on here, you should find a description of how to do it.
In reply to blob737:
The short answer is Yes you can do this.
The longer version is that of course you would need to be competent in passing a knot after 5m of abseiling, and also that because the ropes behave differently you may well find in some situations that, if you've just passed the rope through a krab or ring at the anchor, you may see some slippage as one rope pulls a little more than the other. This would mean that the knot would most likely creep down slowly as you descended, with the result that your dynamic rope could end up being a little shorter than your static one when you arrived at the bottom. Any such creeping would also cause both ropes to rub against the rock at any contact point, with potential abrasion issues.
So yes it's possible, but be aware of the issues and make sure you don't leave yourself stranded 4m above a rocky landing, on ropes which are shredded to the core!
ps. I don't mean to be alarmist - by far the most likely outcome is that the abseil will work entirely as normal.
The short answer is Yes you can do this.
The longer version is that of course you would need to be competent in passing a knot after 5m of abseiling, and also that because the ropes behave differently you may well find in some situations that, if you've just passed the rope through a krab or ring at the anchor, you may see some slippage as one rope pulls a little more than the other. This would mean that the knot would most likely creep down slowly as you descended, with the result that your dynamic rope could end up being a little shorter than your static one when you arrived at the bottom. Any such creeping would also cause both ropes to rub against the rock at any contact point, with potential abrasion issues.
So yes it's possible, but be aware of the issues and make sure you don't leave yourself stranded 4m above a rocky landing, on ropes which are shredded to the core!
ps. I don't mean to be alarmist - by far the most likely outcome is that the abseil will work entirely as normal.
In reply to blob737: Much better to just do 50m abs, no need to pass a knot then.
In reply to blob737:
The answers have been a little weird so far, but unless they have spotted a typo I haven't, heres my tupence.
You want to ab 55m, ye? And you have one 50m dynamic which you will use for climbing, and one 60m static rope.
Surely, as you won't be climbing on the static, you can just anchor one end of it to the top and ab down? then collect it once you've finished?
DC
> Right, so i have 1 50m Single dynamic rope, and 1 60M Static rap rope, can i tie these together and descend the full 55m on them? or is it more technical than that?
The answers have been a little weird so far, but unless they have spotted a typo I haven't, heres my tupence.
You want to ab 55m, ye? And you have one 50m dynamic which you will use for climbing, and one 60m static rope.
Surely, as you won't be climbing on the static, you can just anchor one end of it to the top and ab down? then collect it once you've finished?
DC
In reply to blob737: why complicate things? just tie the ropes together at their ends with a suitable knot like the reef knot with single fishermans backup (which uses about a meter of rope to tie) tie the other end of the ropes togetther so you don't slip off the ends and just ab the full distance possible which will be shorter than 55m I suspect given all the knots!
I presume you mean so you can retrieve your ropes?
pass on rope around tree / through anchor etc..
Tie each rope together with a double fishermans knot.
Thread as normal through belay device, with the knot above (on the anchor side, not the rope below). This means you'll have 60ish metres on static below you, and 50ish metres on the dynamic.
By the time you are at the bottom of the dynamic, you should gain at least 5 metres on rope stretch.
This gives you 55m useful length and still be able to abb and retrieve both ropes, without having to pass any knots. which is kinda pointless in this situation, (for the 5m extra distance, which you'd get back in stretch anyway.)
Don't forget a prussic and a knots in the end though.
Why can't you just abb on the sixty tied off at one end, and leave it in place? I could only assume you were doing this if you had to abb in from say, one side of a gorge / whatever, then climbed out the other side and didn't / couldn't walk back the the original point.
pass on rope around tree / through anchor etc..
Tie each rope together with a double fishermans knot.
Thread as normal through belay device, with the knot above (on the anchor side, not the rope below). This means you'll have 60ish metres on static below you, and 50ish metres on the dynamic.
By the time you are at the bottom of the dynamic, you should gain at least 5 metres on rope stretch.
This gives you 55m useful length and still be able to abb and retrieve both ropes, without having to pass any knots. which is kinda pointless in this situation, (for the 5m extra distance, which you'd get back in stretch anyway.)
Don't forget a prussic and a knots in the end though.
Why can't you just abb on the sixty tied off at one end, and leave it in place? I could only assume you were doing this if you had to abb in from say, one side of a gorge / whatever, then climbed out the other side and didn't / couldn't walk back the the original point.
In reply to Duncan Campbell:
> (In reply to blob737)
> [...]
> [...]
>
> Surely, as you won't be climbing on the static, you can just anchor one end of it to the top and ab down? then collect it once you've finished?
>
I'm with you on this (or feeling sorry for the poor soul who has to carry 60m of static up the crag)> Surely, as you won't be climbing on the static, you can just anchor one end of it to the top and ab down? then collect it once you've finished?
>
In reply to blob737:
Tie the ropes together at the top, then tie the ropes together at the bottom, throw theropes down. With the top knot next to the anchor start abseiling. Slightly less than fifty metres down the ropes (due to the knots) you will come up against the other knot. Then just let the longer rope through the belay device, you will be able to reach 55m.
Tie the ropes together at the top, then tie the ropes together at the bottom, throw theropes down. With the top knot next to the anchor start abseiling. Slightly less than fifty metres down the ropes (due to the knots) you will come up against the other knot. Then just let the longer rope through the belay device, you will be able to reach 55m.
In reply to Duncan Campbell:
That's a very good point! I just presumed he must be wanting to retrieve the ropes at the bottom, but reading it again now maybe that isn't what he meant.
To the OP: Abseiling on a single static line should be fine, albeit maybe a little slicker than using two ropes, so if you don't need to pull both ropes down with you just use the static to ab on and carry the lead rope down with you still coiled.
> Surely, as you won't be climbing on the static, you can just anchor one end of it to the top and ab down? then collect it once you've finished?
That's a very good point! I just presumed he must be wanting to retrieve the ropes at the bottom, but reading it again now maybe that isn't what he meant.
To the OP: Abseiling on a single static line should be fine, albeit maybe a little slicker than using two ropes, so if you don't need to pull both ropes down with you just use the static to ab on and carry the lead rope down with you still coiled.
hi, thanks for all your replys. I was asking the question because i was wondering how you would get off multi-pitch routes with the gear i had. In the end one of my friends has a 10.5 50m Dynamic, which i assume will match up well with my 10.2 50m dynamic, and so i take it it would be best to ab off using both of them?
Cheers
sam
Cheers
sam
In reply to blob737:
Not by carrying 60m of static rope up the route with you for no reason other than retreat.
In the end one of my friends has a 10.5 50m Dynamic, which i assume will match up well with my 10.2 50m dynamic, and so i take it it would be best to ab off using both of them?
That sounds like a much more sensible idea.
> hi, thanks for all your replys. I was asking the question because i was wondering how you would get off multi-pitch routes with the gear i had.
Not by carrying 60m of static rope up the route with you for no reason other than retreat.
In the end one of my friends has a 10.5 50m Dynamic, which i assume will match up well with my 10.2 50m dynamic, and so i take it it would be best to ab off using both of them?
That sounds like a much more sensible idea.
In reply to blob737:
Definitely do not carry your static rope up a normal multipitch climb unless you are in training for something. They are heavy!
Which multi-pitch routes have you got in mind? It's quite rare in the UK to need to abb off a multipitch route, unless you get in trouble. I'd be loathe to carry an extra single rope 'just in case' as it will slow you down and make you more likely to need it. However, if this is the system you are going for, then you can do a 50m ab by simply tying the ends together with a nice neat overhand knot about 50cm from the end (and you can back it up with another overhand butted up against it if you want reassurance.
> hi, thanks for all your replys. I was asking the question because i was wondering how you would get off multi-pitch routes with the gear i had. In the end one of my friends has a 10.5 50m Dynamic, which i assume will match up well with my 10.2 50m dynamic, and so i take it it would be best to ab off using both of them?
Definitely do not carry your static rope up a normal multipitch climb unless you are in training for something. They are heavy!
Which multi-pitch routes have you got in mind? It's quite rare in the UK to need to abb off a multipitch route, unless you get in trouble. I'd be loathe to carry an extra single rope 'just in case' as it will slow you down and make you more likely to need it. However, if this is the system you are going for, then you can do a 50m ab by simply tying the ends together with a nice neat overhand knot about 50cm from the end (and you can back it up with another overhand butted up against it if you want reassurance.
In reply to Monk: Right so the general concensus is that the static rope is not the best of ideas, and that id be better to go with 2 dynamics instead.
Thanks everyone, now its just the v old argument of how to join the ropes, im most familiar with the double fisherman, but a lot seem to use the double overhand, il have a read through the forum to find out more,
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks everyone, now its just the v old argument of how to join the ropes, im most familiar with the double fisherman, but a lot seem to use the double overhand, il have a read through the forum to find out more,
Thanks,
Sam
In reply to blob737:
As others have implied, the only real use for a static rope is setting up an abseil to get to the bottom of a climb (e.g. sea cliff). Climb on (dynamic) doubles and tie them together to ab off if you need to escape more than 25m. Try to avoid abseiling over a knot if you can: if you have a 50m and a 60m then try to stick to 50m abseils.
I use a double overhand knot (i.e. an overhand knot tied treating both ropes as a single strand, with the two ends coming out of the same side of the knot), backed up by another two of the same. (A total of two double overhands is probably fine, but abseiling is scary enough already.) If I'm more worried about the two types of rope differing than the ropes snagging on something when I pull them down, then I use a double fisherman's to join them. [My own preferences are derived from personal experience and advice of unknown provenance, and should not be treated as gospel]
As others have implied, the only real use for a static rope is setting up an abseil to get to the bottom of a climb (e.g. sea cliff). Climb on (dynamic) doubles and tie them together to ab off if you need to escape more than 25m. Try to avoid abseiling over a knot if you can: if you have a 50m and a 60m then try to stick to 50m abseils.
I use a double overhand knot (i.e. an overhand knot tied treating both ropes as a single strand, with the two ends coming out of the same side of the knot), backed up by another two of the same. (A total of two double overhands is probably fine, but abseiling is scary enough already.) If I'm more worried about the two types of rope differing than the ropes snagging on something when I pull them down, then I use a double fisherman's to join them. [My own preferences are derived from personal experience and advice of unknown provenance, and should not be treated as gospel]
In reply to blob737:
Double fishermans or double overhand knots are pretty robust, but bulky and more likely to catch on something when you pull them down.
Many people (myself included) use a single overhand knot. Looks terrifying, but it's plenty safe enough (even if it is affectionately known as a European Death Knot) and it's less likely to get stuck.
Double fishermans or double overhand knots are pretty robust, but bulky and more likely to catch on something when you pull them down.
Many people (myself included) use a single overhand knot. Looks terrifying, but it's plenty safe enough (even if it is affectionately known as a European Death Knot) and it's less likely to get stuck.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
Single overhand? Well you've made me look like a total jessie now. Although, of course, if a single overhand has sustained your bulk without rupture, I know it's safe for me to use.
Single overhand? Well you've made me look like a total jessie now. Although, of course, if a single overhand has sustained your bulk without rupture, I know it's safe for me to use.
In reply to crossdressingrodney:
Har de har har.
You are a total jessie. I remember all that moaning about Wrecker's Slab being loose and terrifying...
Har de har har.
You are a total jessie. I remember all that moaning about Wrecker's Slab being loose and terrifying...
In reply to victim of mathematics:
+1
> (In reply to blob737)
>
> Double fishermans or double overhand knots are pretty robust, but bulky and more likely to catch on something when you pull them down.
>
> Many people (myself included) use a single overhand knot. Looks terrifying, but it's plenty safe enough (even if it is affectionately known as a European Death Knot) and it's less likely to get stuck.
>
> Double fishermans or double overhand knots are pretty robust, but bulky and more likely to catch on something when you pull them down.
>
> Many people (myself included) use a single overhand knot. Looks terrifying, but it's plenty safe enough (even if it is affectionately known as a European Death Knot) and it's less likely to get stuck.
+1
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
In reply to JoshOvki:
Recently watched a test on a rig with a 10.5mm and an 8mm and it didn't show any signs of slipping, so personally, I'm happy with a single OH knot.
It also was as strong as stacked barrel knots on ropes of the above diameter. (Thin rope through/above fat rope)
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
>
> I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
Recently watched a test on a rig with a 10.5mm and an 8mm and it didn't show any signs of slipping, so personally, I'm happy with a single OH knot.
It also was as strong as stacked barrel knots on ropes of the above diameter. (Thin rope through/above fat rope)
In reply to JoshOvki:
How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters? I've never done it in 10+ years of climbing.
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
>
> I thought the issue with the EDK is if you are using ropes of two different diameters? It is more likely to slip.
How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters? I've never done it in 10+ years of climbing.
In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
OK, let's try again:
How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters in the UK?
OK, let's try again:
How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters in the UK?
In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
Do you know of any online sources that back this up? I'm planning on abbing off my new 9.1mm and my partners 10.something this weekend. I'm not sure about using an EDK due to the size difference, but I don't want them getting stuck on a big knot. Before I use an EDK, I want a little more reassurance than 'a poster on UKC said it would be OK'
Do you know of any online sources that back this up? I'm planning on abbing off my new 9.1mm and my partners 10.something this weekend. I'm not sure about using an EDK due to the size difference, but I don't want them getting stuck on a big knot. Before I use an EDK, I want a little more reassurance than 'a poster on UKC said it would be OK'
In reply to Hooo:
I'd suggest a search, there have been many endless threads on the subject. Most seem to go for an overhand knot these days, at least of those who posted on the threads, while admitting that you need to leave long tails as there is some slippage. It seems to be what is taught on courses.
Personally I don't fancy the idea of slippage so I always use a double fisherman's knot which doesn't slip. Each to his own though. I have often tied different makes of rope with a little difference in diameter with no problem but not 9 and 10.
I'd suggest a search, there have been many endless threads on the subject. Most seem to go for an overhand knot these days, at least of those who posted on the threads, while admitting that you need to leave long tails as there is some slippage. It seems to be what is taught on courses.
Personally I don't fancy the idea of slippage so I always use a double fisherman's knot which doesn't slip. Each to his own though. I have often tied different makes of rope with a little difference in diameter with no problem but not 9 and 10.
In reply to Hooo:
A quick scout round Youtube reveals these and other tests.
Same diameter rope, I couldn't find any for different diameters.
Dry rope - Fails at around 22Kn (Approx. equal to 20 people hanging on it)
youtube.com/watch?v=gt74KX4t9xc&
Wet rope - Fails at around 13 Kn (Approx. equal to 12 people hanging on it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=0XZHZpNqF70&NR=1
> (In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet)
> Do you know of any online sources that back this up?, I want a little
> more reassurance than 'a poster on UKC said it would be OK'
> Do you know of any online sources that back this up?, I want a little
> more reassurance than 'a poster on UKC said it would be OK'
A quick scout round Youtube reveals these and other tests.
Same diameter rope, I couldn't find any for different diameters.
Dry rope - Fails at around 22Kn (Approx. equal to 20 people hanging on it)
youtube.com/watch?v=gt74KX4t9xc&
Wet rope - Fails at around 13 Kn (Approx. equal to 12 people hanging on it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=0XZHZpNqF70&NR=1
In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
I did a test at the local wall. I tied a piece of 5mm accessory cord to a 10mm climbing rope using an overhand knot. It didn't budge when I hung on it.
I wouldn't trust this particular combination for real, but it does give me trust in an overhand knot to tie more closely matched ropes (eg 10.5 and 8mm)
I did a test at the local wall. I tied a piece of 5mm accessory cord to a 10mm climbing rope using an overhand knot. It didn't budge when I hung on it.
I wouldn't trust this particular combination for real, but it does give me trust in an overhand knot to tie more closely matched ropes (eg 10.5 and 8mm)
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to Hooo)
>
> I'd suggest a search, there have been many endless threads on the subject.
Indeed there have, but I still haven't found any answers with a reliable source. Once you discount all the posts from people who are absolutely set on one particular method, opinion seems to be pretty evenly divided between OK and not OK.>
> I'd suggest a search, there have been many endless threads on the subject.
In reply to Hooo:
If you are worried about the different diameters, you could always set it up using the thinner rope as a pull-line.
If you are worried about the different diameters, you could always set it up using the thinner rope as a pull-line.
In reply to Hooo:
I'm not sure how you differentiate ? what is the difference between the OK side and someone wo is set in their opinion ?
To be honest who really cares ? anyone wityh any actual experience of abseiling in different environments will have found a system that works for them. Pretty much all abseil accidents occur because of operator error, and never through properly tied knot failure.
I'm not sure how you differentiate ? what is the difference between the OK side and someone wo is set in their opinion ?
To be honest who really cares ? anyone wityh any actual experience of abseiling in different environments will have found a system that works for them. Pretty much all abseil accidents occur because of operator error, and never through properly tied knot failure.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
Fairly regularly as it happens: I have an 8.1 half and a 9.2 single. If partner has a half that's fine, but if he doesn't we go climbing on The Odd Couple, so to speak. They work fine together as a pair and abseiling, tied with an overhand. If faced with along run out, it's always the thicker rope that gets clipped at the preceding runner - funny that. Maybe it should be a question on that fear of falling survey
> (In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet)
>
> OK, let's try again:
>
> How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters in the UK?
>
> OK, let's try again:
>
> How often do you find yourself climbing with two ropes of significantly different diameters in the UK?
Fairly regularly as it happens: I have an 8.1 half and a 9.2 single. If partner has a half that's fine, but if he doesn't we go climbing on The Odd Couple, so to speak. They work fine together as a pair and abseiling, tied with an overhand. If faced with along run out, it's always the thicker rope that gets clipped at the preceding runner - funny that. Maybe it should be a question on that fear of falling survey
In reply to GrahamD:
A lot of people seem to say 'I always use so-and-so, whatever the circumstances'. I'd call them set in their opinion. Some have tried a variety of methods, so I'm interested in how they found them.
I care, because I have very little experience with abseiling. I dont want to gain experience the hard way!
> (In reply to Hooo)
>
> I'm not sure how you differentiate ? what is the difference between the OK side and someone wo is set in their opinion ?
>
> I'm not sure how you differentiate ? what is the difference between the OK side and someone wo is set in their opinion ?
A lot of people seem to say 'I always use so-and-so, whatever the circumstances'. I'd call them set in their opinion. Some have tried a variety of methods, so I'm interested in how they found them.
> To be honest who really cares ? anyone wityh any actual experience of abseiling in different environments will have found a system that works for them. Pretty much all abseil accidents occur because of operator error, and never through properly tied knot failure.
I care, because I have very little experience with abseiling. I dont want to gain experience the hard way!
In reply to Hooo:
OK, fair enough. What I mean by not caring is that there are a number of knots which will work to join ropes and its not THAT important which one. As far as I can tell the main No No is a fig 8 used instead of an overhand.
Ultimately,though, you will have to make your own mind up on the overhand knot - as I did 15 years ago. I swapped to it once a friend had shown it me and I've not looked back.
You can experiment if you want at a wall by hanging from ropes run from a krab on the lowest bolt. I did this to see how the overhand knot would deal with widely different rope diameters - even with silly mismatches I couldn't get it to fail under my body weight.
OK, fair enough. What I mean by not caring is that there are a number of knots which will work to join ropes and its not THAT important which one. As far as I can tell the main No No is a fig 8 used instead of an overhand.
Ultimately,though, you will have to make your own mind up on the overhand knot - as I did 15 years ago. I swapped to it once a friend had shown it me and I've not looked back.
You can experiment if you want at a wall by hanging from ropes run from a krab on the lowest bolt. I did this to see how the overhand knot would deal with widely different rope diameters - even with silly mismatches I couldn't get it to fail under my body weight.
In reply to blob737:
always a great believer in keeping things simple on the crag
.overhand knot with a long tail is the one for me.A reef knot with double fishermans seems a bit too much knot for my taste,and "knot" (get it) the easiest to tie and release .
always a great believer in keeping things simple on the crag
.overhand knot with a long tail is the one for me.A reef knot with double fishermans seems a bit too much knot for my taste,and "knot" (get it) the easiest to tie and release .
In reply to GrahamD:
I think I'm pretty much convinced by the arguments for an overhand now, even with a 1mm difference in rope diameters. I'll probably back it up for the first few goes though.
I think I'm pretty much convinced by the arguments for an overhand now, even with a 1mm difference in rope diameters. I'll probably back it up for the first few goes though.
In reply to Hooo:
I tried this out yesterday. My brand new super-slippery 9.1mm Beam Joker, tied to a 10mm Mammut Galaxy (handles like an abseil rope), using an EDK with 1m tails. I watched the knot while my partner abbed down first, and it didn't move at all.
I tried this out yesterday. My brand new super-slippery 9.1mm Beam Joker, tied to a 10mm Mammut Galaxy (handles like an abseil rope), using an EDK with 1m tails. I watched the knot while my partner abbed down first, and it didn't move at all.
In reply to Hooo:
You have a very trusting partner.
> (In reply to Hooo)
> I watched the knot while my partner abbed down first,
> I watched the knot while my partner abbed down first,
You have a very trusting partner.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
It was his punishment for throwing the ropes into a tree
We backed it up with a double fishermans further down the tails though...
> (In reply to Hooo)
> [...]
>
> You have a very trusting partner.
> [...]
>
> You have a very trusting partner.
It was his punishment for throwing the ropes into a tree
We backed it up with a double fishermans further down the tails though...
In reply to Hooo: this has been test by various people with an 8mm and 10mm combo. It's fine. The issue is the rope creeping through the rap ring because the 8 feeds through the belay plate faster.
In reply to David Coley:
> (In reply to Hooo) The issue is the rope creeping through the rap ring because the 8 feeds through the belay plate faster.
So you should always put the thinner rope through the ring then, so that the knot doesn't jam. And knot the ends of course. In reply to Hooo:
Put the thicker rope through ring/tape so it DOES jam - then you won't get any movement.
Chris
> (In reply to David Coley)
> [...]
> So you should always put the thinner rope through the ring then, so that the knot doesn't jam. And knot the ends of course.
> [...]
> So you should always put the thinner rope through the ring then, so that the knot doesn't jam. And knot the ends of course.
Put the thicker rope through ring/tape so it DOES jam - then you won't get any movement.
Chris
IIn reply to Chris Craggs:
Oh no, another dilemma What if the knot gets stuck in the ring and you can't pull it?
> (In reply to Hooo)
> [...]
>
> Put the thicker rope through ring/tape so it DOES jam - then you won't get any movement.
> [...]
>
> Put the thicker rope through ring/tape so it DOES jam - then you won't get any movement.
Oh no, another dilemma What if the knot gets stuck in the ring and you can't pull it?
In reply to Hooo: If it gets stuck, pull the other end. The trouble with trying to use only the thick rope as the one threaded, is that one normally alternates the rope threaded so you don't drop the rope down the cliff, or have to keep re-tying it.
In reply to blob737:
In any serious rappel situation, tie an auto block (like a prussic but slides better.) below your rappel device. Clip it to either your leg loop or waist band. When you start your rappel and go over the edge you can actually pull the knot towards you allowing the other rope to slide up. keep doing this as much as you need to prevent the knot from jamming. (the person below lets you know if one rope is in danger of being too short) ONLY DO THIS IF THE ANCHOR HAS METAL RINGS, NEVER WITH NYLON RUNNING OVER NYLON. Your controlling hand holds the rope just above the auto block.
Good rappelling.
In any serious rappel situation, tie an auto block (like a prussic but slides better.) below your rappel device. Clip it to either your leg loop or waist band. When you start your rappel and go over the edge you can actually pull the knot towards you allowing the other rope to slide up. keep doing this as much as you need to prevent the knot from jamming. (the person below lets you know if one rope is in danger of being too short) ONLY DO THIS IF THE ANCHOR HAS METAL RINGS, NEVER WITH NYLON RUNNING OVER NYLON. Your controlling hand holds the rope just above the auto block.
Good rappelling.
In reply to David Coley:
Interesting. So if I am escaping off some tat, should I be wary of the different diameters creating a sawing effect on the tat?
> (In reply to Hooo) this has been test by various people with an 8mm and 10mm combo. It's fine. The issue is the rope creeping through the rap ring because the 8 feeds through the belay plate faster.
Interesting. So if I am escaping off some tat, should I be wary of the different diameters creating a sawing effect on the tat?
In reply to Monk:
That is an interesting question. I haven't seen any test data, so I guess I don't know. However, I would think that the friction at the tat would be great enough to ensure there was no creep, but I haven't tested it.
However the issue is not likely to arise. As Chris said, just put the knot on the thin rope side and there should be no movement. This is easy to do with tat normally as the knot will pass through the tat loop so you can place it either side (unlike with a metal ring).
> Interesting. So if I am escaping off some tat, should I be wary of the different diameters creating a sawing effect on the tat?
That is an interesting question. I haven't seen any test data, so I guess I don't know. However, I would think that the friction at the tat would be great enough to ensure there was no creep, but I haven't tested it.
However the issue is not likely to arise. As Chris said, just put the knot on the thin rope side and there should be no movement. This is easy to do with tat normally as the knot will pass through the tat loop so you can place it either side (unlike with a metal ring).
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