UKC

It's been ages since I've asked a stupid question about grades... This was prompted by a thread which mentioned "Temporary Lifestyle" DWS HS 4b.

What does the HS refer to on a DWS given that there's no gear going in? Is it just how screwed you are if you come off?

In reply to skeev:

HS on a gear protected route isn't just about falling off. It also represents how sustained the route is etc etc.

Deep water soloes get an S grade regarding danger.

S0 = safe
S1 = ...
S2 = ...
S3 = Don't fall

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

So what's DWS HS then?!?

Is it the grade for the route if climbed Trad? Which just happens to be climbed solo most of the time, and is over water?

So why isn't it graded, say, S1 4b?

Is is well confused innit...

In reply to skeev:

It is the same for sport climbs, there are many guidebooks that run trad and sport grades side by side. An example is Millemetre War at cheddar. It gets E6 6b, F7c. It has no gear. If it were soloed I guess E8 6b would be closer the mark. But since it is safe due to bolts, E6 6b just represesnts how sustained/the number of 6b moves.

Whereas, The Aardvark and the Ferret at Avon is a trad rotue and gets E6 6b but is only F6c+ to toprope, this is because it is dagerous. If it were bolted, it would get F6c+ and a corresponding trad grade of something like E3 6b...

The answer is, basically, that if a route is safe, the adjectival grade will only represent how sustained the route is.

That is not very clear sorry!

In reply to skeev:

In my personal opinion the difficulty and seriousness of a DWS are better reflected using french and 's' grades. So Temporary Lifestyle would be F3, S0

In reply to skeev:

It's just a quirk of the system based on the fact that a lot of the routes were not originally DWS, a lot were lead. It'll probably do out of fashion and be replaced with F grades as they make more sense, exactly the same thing happened with bolt protected routes

In reply to skeev:

In the Rockfax - a UK trad grade is usually given for DWS routes, the grade takes into account the seriousness/sustainedness of the route as per if the route was a normal lead, and routes that are bolted (but also possible as DWS) are given sport grades.

For safe DWS routes (i.e. S0/S1), the trad grad given reflects usually only the sustainedness of the route - i.e. graded as if it was a well protected trad lead, for example there are several DWS at Lulworth that are E5/E6 yet completely safe to repeatedly fall off, but are F7a+/F7b+ respectively in sport grade.

Really you need to look at the route in question and make your own decision whether or not (based on height, water depth etc) you want to climb it.

PS Temporary Lifestyle is completely safe at all tides.

In reply to Ben Stokes:

Hi Ben,

Yep, agree. Seems to make most sense having a 'physical' and a 'serious' grade.

Mick

In reply to Richard Horn:

Completely incorrect. At low spring tide you can stand in the water under the route.

In reply to Ben Stokes:

Yep, defo the way forward. French grade and S grade combined.

Easy

Job done

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

sounds like a good idea.

but something that gets me is when does dws start? for example there is a ton of stuff on portland which is only 4 about meters high and routes that simply traverse over the water. these would never normally get route grades over land, yet they do over water. highball bouldering at most.

so where do you draw the line, and is there established dw bouldering?

In reply to catt:

Well, its the same as sport climbing. Some are 4/5 metres high, but still get french grades. Where do you draw the line with them? Its only a guide anyway, not an exact science.

In reply to catt:


I gave some of my new routes/problems at Deep Zawn portland 'V' and 'S' grades. I considered them to be deep water boulder problems due to the length and general vibe.

In reply to skeev: Correct. It's a stupid question.

Hard Severe means exactly the same as it always means. The route is harder to onsight (on average) than everything graded Severe and below and is easier to onsight (on average) than everything graded Very Severe and above.

HTH

In reply to Ben Stokes:


agreed although it'd be more like F5, SO

PS You can grade any route with a UK adjectival grade, however some times it doesn't actually make sense to do it. As other people have said this is probably one of these cases.