UKC

My Squamish select was my climbing routes 'bible' for all my climbs at Squamish.

Sadly it will soon be kept more as a souvenir and a great memory.
Are there any out there for me to buy for the Peak District once I am back in the UK?

In reply to atlantis:

The rockfax eastern and western grit books are probably the closest thing at the moment. Both are very good books.

Not sure what is out there for peak limestone, but that's all either chossy and 'orrible or nasty and polished. *flees*

In reply to atlantis: Both the Rockfax and BMC Peak guides are so good in their own ways its hard to choose.

For the casual visitor - Rockfax I guess. If you visit an area a lot thern also get the lovewly BMC guide - I look at them as complimentary.

In reply to David Hooper:

Thanks to both of you.

What is best for grit crack climbs out of those two guide books?

Don't tell me both of them or I will have to buy both.

In reply to atlantis:

Western Grit has all the cracks on the western side of the Peak and Eastern Grit...... well I am sure you can guess!


Chris

In reply to atlantis:

With Rockfax, you get a selective coverage of the Peak in 2 books, albeit that selection is huge and covers pretty much all the best routes, and you actually get stuff up on the moors that is not covered in other books at the moment, as well as stuff in Lancashire.

The BMC guides are definitive, covering all the routes and all the bouldering but you will need 4 books to cover the whole area.

Both Rockfax and the BMC are excellent guides, so it's a tough choice.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Errrm Eastern Grit has all the cracks on the Eastern side of the Peak perhaps?

In reply to atlantis: The BMC guides have some fun lists such as 10 best cracks etc if thats what you are looking for - but honestly you couldnt get a cigarette paper between Rockfax and BMC for quality - they both really are that good - guess you need to go and fondle them in a shop

In reply to atlantis: Surprisingly there is more to the Peak District than gritstone and should you be interested, Rockfax also do a selective guide to the Limestone of the White Peak called "Northern Limestone". It covers the Yorkshire Dales and Cumbria as well but 2/3 of it is in the Peak.

In reply to pec:

It is also out of print!


Chris

In reply to Monk:

Rockfax for sure then, I like the best routes. Classics are my favourites.

It sounds a bit like the Squamish Select in that you get all the routes in Squamish including the Chief, Chekamus Canyon (sport climbs there even on a rainy day as some are sheltered from it due to the rock faces), though quite intense level climbing there, I tried to second someone there once in the rain but it was too hard for me, he was doing 5.11's. I think I seconded two 5.10's with him and that was it as I couldn't do what he was doing, so just belayed him.

Squamish Select also includes climbing routes at Whistler and Pemberton which are another 30-60 mins drive away from Squamish.

I thought Rockfax was just an online guide until now, so thanks for that. Be a good one for starters I think.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Thanks Chris, I won't go near this one then. Rockfax sounds good.

I may venture toward limestone climbs again too. Funny, not touched it since I left the UK as mostly granite here (Squamish area), and Smith Rock where I climbed is (go and see for yourself):

http://www.ubc-voc.com/wiki/Smith_Rock

Some loose rock anyway, I found out many locals down there are scared to climb loose rock climbs at Smith, but having done my first climbs at Symonds Yat I did not find it scary. It was no different to climbing that really.

Not sure I will like limestone so much, I have a bit of a bad memory of a first climb on the way down to Avon once, some guy from UKclimbing.com (can't remember who now) but he saw a climb on the way he had wanted to do for ages having not managed to do it before, was harder than he thought and I struggled with it. Found out after from a more experienced climber that the reason I found it so hard was because there was no protection on it! I have to say, almost near the top but the hardest part of it, I only managed to get to the top after climbing the rope as the other climber could not hear me (not the one to climb with I think) as I had been dangling for ages and there was no other way I could get up it.

And once up I still remember shaking (scared).
Not a good memory of mine for limestone.

In reply to atlantis:

I am full on with Peak Limestone, due out this summer so you may be in luck. Currently it is looking rather good.

I have climbed extensively at Squamish (best route Grand Wall to Bellygood) and Smith Rock (best route Pioneer on Monkey Face) - both great venues. I think Peak grit and lime might be a disappointment!!!!


Chris

In reply to atlantis: There is a guide book called "Peak District: Climbing" by Vertebrate that has a decent overview of everything that the Peak has to offer but it only has routes upto HVS/E1 for trad and 6c for sport so it depends what grade you are climbing at. Personally, I would (and did) just buy Western Grit, Eastern Grit and Northern Limestone from Rockfax then you are covered!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Ahh Monkey Face

A good climbing friend of mine over here, in Calgary who worked for SAR for years there, did me an online map to print out of a road trip to follow from North Vancouver down to Smith Rock and up through the Rockies, I did it mostly, and he said I had to climb Monkey Face.

The partner I had down there (from Smith Rock, who was the one that fed back to me how the locals there find the loose rock too scary as they aren't used to climbing loose rock), had me practicing for the aid part of the route part of the day before(3rd pitch I think it was).

I was all ready to second him the next day (no way I was leading any of it) and I like to get familiar with something like that first anyway, it rained and it did for the next 2 days and I had my trip tightly cut out so that was that, I wasn't happy. But I said I would be back for definite at some point as I have to do it (and wanted to). Circumstances changed though and now I can't see it.

Well thanks, I will add you as a partner on here and catch up with you when I get back to get some limestone climbing in in that case. Summer for sure. That is two of you so far, another for crack climbs.

In reply to weakdave:

Thanks Weakdave.. are you weak then?

Why not strongdave??

I did not know you had to buy parts of it.. why can't it just come as one book with all routes in there?

In reply to Chris Craggs:

You're above my level by the way, you wouldn't catch me climbing Grand wall, I was more 5.8, 5.9,and 5.10's were my max for seconding.

Though I know you get easy and hard 5.9, 5.10, 5.11 etc

In reply to atlantis:

There is another book that might suit you better than any mentioned so far: On Peak Rock the best of grit and limestone across the area and across all grades. If you are climbing a lot in the peak Rockfax are great but the BMC selective guides are better (speaking as a co-editor of one of them

In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks, I will have to check them all out I think, and I will take note of that one you feel will suit me better.

I don't care for anything above 5.11 to be honest, I am never going to be leading any of that, likely never seconding anything above 5.10 either (not strong enough), and don't tell me it is all technique as it is strength too you know

I need to get re-familiarised with the UK grading. I know it is on here.

In reply to atlantis:

Just noticed your lead grades... there is another really good book for sub 5.10 leaders. Vertibrate Graphics' Peak District: Climbing (they also have their updated bouldering guide out soon). Peak grit is blessed with wonderful guides.

In reply to atlantis:
>

Because it would be nearly 1000 pages long and cost £65!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Heh. And too big to carry..

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Comfortably over 2000 pages and a good bit over £100 more like!

In reply to atlantis:

Its not quite as impressive as it sounds... almost anything climbable is listed and most routes are in the 10-20m range (and the BMC guides contain nearly all the bouldering).

In reply to Offwidth:

That book sounds appropriate for sure. 'Vertibrate Graphics Peak district: climbing' Noted and written it down. Thanks.

I like a bit of bouldering too for strength building, though done a very limited amount of it outdoors.
I liked to do some in the gym straight after an indoor climb.

In reply to Offwidth:


That's funny.

I imagined like Squamish select you could get a book on any area like that one, but I guess not. Selected routes and many classics in there I believe.

In reply to atlantis:

Peak bouldering is really good and not as highball as stuff on the other side of the atlantic can be at mortal grades. Our website might be useful alongside the guides (hopefully updated later today): http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/home.html

In reply to atlantis:

Peak bouldering is really good and not as highball as stuff on the other side of the atlantic can be at mortal grades. Our website might be useful alongside the guides (hopefully updated later today): http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/home.html

In reply to Offwidth:

Not very high then. Culture shock. It's okay though, I mostly like single pitch routes, exception was the Chief.

Are the routes clean?

In reply to Offwidth:

That's great. Thanks for that link, saved to my favourites on the laptop.

Just viewed your profile, envy that you climbed at Utah, I had that one on my agenda, a very popular great person and climber, well known on rockclimbing.com lived in Salt Lake City and offered to be my guide when I got down there for some climbing, he encouraged me too not that I needed much..

Sadly he died, and not from ice climbing either, he was big into that as well as rock climbing, but had some heart defect that he never knew about himself, and was found by his room mate. The response on rc.com was phenomenal, everyone loved him, but he interacted with you so much (not just me, but many).

In reply to Offwidth:


From that link, Froggat area looks fun.

In reply to Offwidth:
Yep. I was easing him into it with a deliberate underestimate

In reply to Offwidth:

Agreed, I wondered why nobody had suggested this?

In reply to atlantis:

Utah sandstone is amazing but quite scary for someone of my occasional 5.9 onsight leading ability.. a guide would be useful, and on that subject very sad to hear about your friend. I've only done bits in Zion, and around Moab. However, anyone able should climb Ancient Art/Stolen Chimney to that astonishing corkscrew summit (tough 5.8 A0 overall).

In reply to Offwidth:

Oh good, be good to climb with you at the Peak district too then if you are around that level

Though US 5.9s are harder and more like 5.11 aren't they? Oldskool there.

That friend was unique in that, though many of us never had the chance to meet him (and a lucky many did), mine was coming and then was lost permanently and I was gutted, but he was one of those people you felt you knew all your life, and that was the same feedback many gave on him. He really supported me well through our interactions when I went through a tough patch in a job over here once too, made you feel stronger.

In reply to Offwidth:

Without a doubt I know I would have found Utah scary for climbing too, but always easier when you climb with the 'right' person.

In reply to Al Evans:

I'm still really fond of it although its less flashy than the modern colour topos. Its really like a treasure chest in places. I also forgot to mention the old Steve Ashton 100 Gritstone Classics guide (with several hundred routes including Yorkshire) best descriptions for grit routes ever as yet.

In reply to atlantis:

More than happy to meet up. The peak has its own 5.9: HVS (same grade oddly enough)

In reply to Offwidth:

That book sounds good too, another one for me to check out. Though not sure I will be getting as far as Yorkshire in the near future. Sounds terrible saying that when I am on the West coast of Canada right now I know but..

In reply to Offwidth:


Great, I look forward to it too.

And even better I don't need to convert my grading system there then

In reply to atlantis:

lol. It's quicker for me to get to some Yorkshire crags than some Peak ones living 30 mins drive SE of the Peak District! The Peak is surounded by good motorways but driving in can be slow. Peak stuff averages 40 mins to 150 mins. Yorkshire 80 mins to 180 mins.

In reply to Offwidth:

One other question if you don't mind. How much are ropes over there nowadays?

I am out of touch with it there to be honest.

I think it would cost me around $150 for another Mammut 70m rope over here, still miffed my last one got stolen, and pretty new too.

In reply to Offwidth:

Oh gosh! I didn't know. Thanks for enlightening me.

In reply to Offwidth:

By the way, this is that guy from Utah SLC, I think you can see it from this link:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=stymingersfin...

In reply to Offwidth:

A matter of onion of course, I think the RockFaxes are better, speaking as author of all of them!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Onion? Did you just 'spring' a 'leek' ;-? People can judge for themselves but your guides are getting a bit beyond selective, they are pretty comprehensive for the best bits of the best crags and you will eventually need 4 for the peak (inc Limestone and Bouldering not available as yet) vs the eventual 6 from the BMC (Moorland and Limestone not yet available) so I think keen people on a budget should opt for the set that suits. I think the new BMC Peak guides have more detail that locals and keen visitors will want, have the mix of bouldering and climbing that suits the individual areas better and more features and more spirit/ je ne c'est quoi but are less functional (no symbols, colour codes, some routes on different pages to tops etc). So it depends on your preference unless you are keen like me and Lynn.. we have getting on for a hundred peak guides, including 4 Chatsworth's in various states of disrepair..

In reply to atlantis: That includes walk-in times btw: its a long journey to the awesome moorland classics at Kinder Downfall from my house.

In reply to Offwidth:

Are you aware of any plans for a single volume selective guide for the Peak? An updated version of On Peak Rock in the same vein as th elatest definitive guides? I'm pretty sure there is a market for it (as this thread proves!)

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Also I'm sure you mean you are an editor/author as no single person will have climbed and written-up all those routes. All modern editors stand on the shoulders of giants. That of course gives another difference: your Peak District works are more uniform in written style as well as visual style, BMC tend to have a more varied character from the local experts who contribute. Some folk like one side of this, others the other: best to sample and see.

In reply to Monk:

I'm aware of the market but On Peak Rock is an ace book and still meets most of this need and is available from the BMC shop for a snap at £15.

In reply to Offwidth:

Not everyone is a guidebook afficionado though, and to many new climbers On Peak Rock looks very dated now. I guess you have a point though - the BMC isn't out to make money, so there isn't the same drive to produce a shiny selective guide based on the new definitive series.

In reply to Monk:

I wasn't until you mentioned it - interesting thought.

Chris

In reply to Offwidth:

As long as you know what I mean that is just fine.


Chris

(Author of BMC guides to Bamford, Stanage, Baslow, Gardoms and Chatsworth.)

In reply to Chris Craggs:

They certainly are the best selective guidebooks i've come across... Fancy a trip north of the border, some area's SMC books are looking a little dated, that is if their even still in print!

In reply to Monk:

I don't think you need to be anything like an afficionado. Some occasional visitors I've seen who got it fairly recently, tell me they really like it and don't miss colour topos when they have so much colour in the text. They are self selecting though: those who prefer more modern styles won't buy it in the first place.

I try my best to be balanced when I give my views (ie take other folk into account... so I can have a chip on every shoulder . I guess there is a slight bias these days when I don't ask every Rockfax owner questions (where I used to when Gritstone East first came out) but I do tend to ask those I see using On Peak Rock and The new VG book or the volumes I helped with how they find them. I can't remember the last time I went climbing to a new area in the peak with one guide.

I also have tons of respect for Chris Cragg's efforts... some say he is a contender for the biggest climbing guidebook machine who has ever lived . Irrespective of my love of banter, we really are lucky folk with the quality of guides we have now compared to when I started in the 1980s.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Again, I'm sure you mean Editor/Author, as even on home territory you must have had a few ticks left, certainly a team of co-workers, and a few descriptions jumped editions, non?. Plus you forgot Birchen, amongst a few other crags.

Lynn and I were/are a little unusual as co-editors as we may be the least (climbing) technically able definitive guide editors ever (certainly in recent times). So we are very aware that for all of the sum of our not-inconsiderable time spent (most spare moments for several years outside hols) the sum of the time spent by all the chapter authors was larger and the sum of time from all their helpers (some of whom never even got acknowledged) was larger still. Then of course we have Grimer for whom it's a day job: with the layout, most photos, a lot of the editing work and being an all round gritstone inspiriation and the links to the BMC and its committees. Then the sum of the previous teams' works was larger than all this. Shoulders of giants (of which you are one .

In reply to Offwidth:


I wholeheartedly agree with that! I started climbing in the 90s, so grew up on pre-Rockfax guides (and will often still use them now). However, no matter how you look at it, modern guides are superb and are certainly easier to use than pre-rockfax guides. Nowadays, I would think twice before buying a pencil-drawn topo guide, let alone a guide without topos at all!

In reply to Offwidth:

Baslow/Birchen - I get confused (it is an age thing), though I don't think I ever did Baslow. My head is full of the Blanca stuff at the mo, just been out photoing the Penon and Toix!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Must get back there soon (Blanca that is .

In reply to David Hooper:

That's what I intend to do, and the other books recommended

In reply to Offwidth:

Oh very nice.. Aren't you the lucky one
Got a spare room there then? Heh


I had a friend that lived right near the smoke bluffs at Squamish too (he has since gone back to Jasper) but it must be nice to just 'walk in' when ever you want.

In reply to atlantis:
Its fairly out of date but a nice book all the same.
Of course all Peak climbers are guide book freaks and you'll be needing Northern limestone, east and western grit. The BMC definitives so you can cross ref then the bouldering guides. Sorted.

In reply to blanchie14c:
Peak Pocketz do sound up your street for now though :-D

In reply to Offwidth:

I like the sound of that book more and more..

And I can see Chris craggs will also be great to climb with.

In reply to atlantis:

Indeed!

Site updated now btw, currently bug fixing but most of it seems to works OK.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Noted. I'd still prefer one single book like the Squamish Select one, that covers many of the popular ones and classics, which is easy to carry with me in the bag with ny gear when out climbing.
Very user friendly, with little icons next to the name of each route that tells you the grade, each icon to inform you in advance different things depending on the route and climb, such as 1,2,3,4,5 star rated (5 being an extremely popular classic climb), 1 rated as best avoided extremely unpopular (I didn't climb any 1 star climbs either.
Whether it's a technical face climb, overhang climb etc (just by symbols next to the name of each route such as a tiny square picture of a quickdraw to tell you e.g. it's a traditional climb using nuts and camming devices), and the key to the symbols at the front of the book, but very informative.

Little paragraphs under each route name, to tell you the height of the climb, example:

Bold print the (name of the route) 5.10b/c, 5 (5 star rated) and quickdraw symbol (for trad) or sport climb symbol next to the rating symbol.

(Detail of climb) 9 bolts, 7 bolts (2 pitches). From the flake at the base , climb the left hand bolt line in two pitches, both mid 5-10. Excellent climbing on excellent features.

Other routes are longer detailed depending on the route. But it is very quick and easy to get an idea of the climb and not have to waste too much time reading the book.

There is also a photographic picture of the climbing area related to the climbs on a given page, with a detailed white line going down it to show you the layout of the different pitches of the route etc, and circled numbers between each pitch, with a word like crack, dyke, often wet, next to it to give a good idea of what it is like. Also some black and white sketches of the same climbing area next to the photographic pictures which are more detailed.
262 pages long not 10,000 (slight exaggeration I know). The last page at the back listing all the classics, that you can tick off as having climbed them.

That is the sort of guide book I want, and just one book not 4 different ones.

I'll let the editors hurry up and develop it, then I will go and buy it
$15 is a reasonable price (sorry 15 pounds).

I guess I will just have to look at all those recommended to me in this thread until then and pick the one that seems closest to it, and covers the areas I most want to and can climb.

In reply to Offwidth:

Good call