UKC

Hi Folks,

Can anyone suggest any methods to avoid getting twists (i.e. one rope twisted over the other) when doing multi pitch climbs using double ropes?

We always start off with the ropes in separate piles with each of us tying in to the rope on the same sides, e.g. yellow on left, blue on right etc. However, by the time we're several pitches up there's invariably one or more twists appeared. On a big stance it's easy enough to slacken one rope off and flip it over your back to remove the twist but I'd really like to know how to avoid the twists in the first place.

I've trawled through several books including Libby Peter but all they seem to mention is the stance management side of things and nothing regarding how to stop the ropes twisting.

Cheers,
Fiona

In reply to Fiona Reid:
Twisting ropes kind of is part of stance management. Happens a lot if you have one person seconding the whole time. Picture this on a multipitch route, trending leftwards: Second arrives at stance, steps to left of belaying leader, attaches to belay. Ropes run through. Leader sets off, steps behind and to left of second (now belaying) and climbs. Instant twist!

Hi

we have not long got in to some big multi pitch routes , people told me not to flip the ropes over but to just go through them again, this has been ok for us even on a hanging belay, I would stack the rope into a sling then once my second has come up , with her help we would go through the rope again..

the other thing is to keep yellow on one side and blue on the other when clipping , and when going on to belay, as it is easy to put a twist in the rope at that point..

these are just the things that we do , I am sure that some of the other guys will be able to help more..

In reply to Fiona Reid: Two things

1. A few twists don't really matter that much. It is annoying but that is all
2. You just need to be very careful about how you move. If you have lead a pitch facing the wall and then turn around belay, you will have up in half a twist. If, when deconstructing the belay you make another half turn the wrong way, you will have a whole twist - etc etc.

Good luck

In reply to Snoweider:

We usually alternate leads so I think the twists are coming from turning to face back down the route to belay the second up and then turning to face up the route to belay second when they take over the lead.

I normally try to connect to the anchors with the ropes on the same sides as how they are connected to my harness but maybe I should try swapping these around to see if that helps any.

In reply to EeeByGum:

Ah, I think that's where our twists are coming from!

If you connect the ropes the opposite way around would that avoid the twist? or just create an even bigger mess? I think I'll try experimenting in the house rather that half way up a cliff.

The twists are just annoying. We always make sure the leaders ropes are twist free so it's just the belayer that has to faff with them.

Fiona

In reply to EeeByGum:

I think this is the biggest cause of the rope getting twisted. IME the simplest way to fix it is to make sure that the ropes are running untwisted when the leader sets off (I virtually always take them off belay and put them back on again to make sure this is happening and for other reasons). Then, when the second sets off from the stance they can untwist the rope, if necessary, by simply turning themselves round 360 degrees. For years I tried putting one rope over my head, or stepping over one, and it always seemed to make things worse in the end. It was a revelation when somebody pointed out the above! Turning all the way round works - obviously you have to turn the right way or you put more twists in, but it soon becomes apparent. It can make you dizzy though so watch out on small stances! I have found that most places where you can belay, you can also manage to turn yourself round but I guess it could be tricky on a truly hanging stance. The other thing that can work if you don't have room to turn around is to untie one rope and retie it, but untying always introduces a tiny bit more risk, so could be seen as having a downside, and I think it takes longer than 'a twirl'.

In reply to Fiona Reid:

It's the inadvertent turning round on the belays that does it. We tend to have a revolving 2nd at some stage who does a delicate pirouette or two or three, depending upon how incompetent we have been.

In reply to Fiona Reid:

never really worried about it too much. just keep them at the second's end by taking the leader off and putting him/her back on with the twists behind the belay device. doesn't usually get too annoying until after a few pitches. if it becomes too much, while on the stance, get the second to untie from one rope and unwind it.

In reply to Fiona Reid: I really wouldn't worry too much about it. It is definitely worth working on minimising the number of twists but as a rounded climber, a couple of twists in the rope should not be phasing you.

In reply to cathsullivan and other:

Cheers for the replies folks. It sounds like some twirling will be taking place on our next multipitch route.

Fiona

In reply to Fiona Reid:

Just a quick update: the twirling round method works a treat and is much easier than trying to flip the rope over heads etc - we tested it out a week or so back.

Thanks all

In reply to Fiona Reid:

It works for sure, I invariably find I twirl the wrong way the 1st time then the opposite direction to get the new and the original twists out!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs

I expect you twirl the wrong way when country dancing as well. We used to call it the kerfuffle shuffle, the words are banned on here.