UKC

I was in a wellknown climbing/walking shop yesterday in the Peak - I looked at a wall of climbing shoes and didn't recognise any of them as shoes-as-I-remember (I've always been a 5.10 man) so where to begin? What's happened recently (I've not been climbing much - hip and shoulder issues) ? Is it to do with bouldering/wall/ everything overhanging type things? Can anyone enlighten me?

Being a 5.10 man, you want to look at Unparallel. The Up VCS is basically an Anasazi. That said, I have found that modern shoes work better and are more comfortable on my feet for all terrains.

Tricounis and hobnails just don't cut it down the wall these days

Yep, everyone boulders now. No one does the route stuff.

Or that’s how it looks. I was a five tener for years. Great shoes till Addidas got hold of them. Yes I’ve tried Unparallel. Pretty rubbish fit. All the new shoes have loads of rubber over the toes. For toe hooking I guess. Do a lot of that on mountain routes. 

Scapa fit me pretty well, but come back five ten (original fit). You were great shoes 

My bug bear is the thickness of rubber both sole and rand, hence durability, has diminished under the guise of offering better performance. How long before soles are only 3mm thick as standard?

As always on these threads, Adidas has owned 5.10 since about 2010. Adidas are not the problem, shitty manufacturing to keep costs down is.

Think they’ve stopped making climbing shoes now????

Adidas were the ones who were initiated the manufacturing move. Hard to say they're not responsible!

I don't really understand your post to be honest?

What was the problem? The fact there was no 5:10 and you don't recognise the other brands?

I think the OP was just making the observation that there are a huge variety of climbing shoes available and then wondering why.

However, HB1 hasn't always been a 5.10 man as HB1's profile pic clearly shows him (assuming it is HB1) climbing in a nice pair of leather boots.

That's fair. Maybe I've missed the point!

Fwiw I am relatively often grateful for toe rubber when I'm trad climbing (inc. in the mountains). Mainly for toe scums that help me feel more stable when placing gear, but occasionally 'proper' toe hooks.

I’d argue there isn’t a large choice available. Most of the shoes you see now are aimed at bouldering. 
I know that’s a growth area but other types of climbing still exist 

I'd argue that's just not true to be honest. Off the top of my head...

Scarpa Generator mid and normal, Sportiva TC Pro, Tenaya Masai, Unparallel UP Lace, Boreal Ninja, Red Chilli Spirit VCR, Scarpa Vapour V, Tenaya Ra, Sportiva Katana and Lace.

Just 11 shoes that are definitely not aimed at bouldering and are widely available throughout the UK.

And for what it's worth any shoe can do any "genre" of climbing just depends on the user.

Totally agree. I do most of my climbing mileage these days indoors and out in Scarpa Veloces, a shoe whose marketing is aimed squarely at indoor bouldering. It's very comfortable and performs adequately on most things. I only find myself reaching into the bag for something less comfy when it comes to trying hard on something near my limit. And even then, the Veloces have been something of a "softer shoes" gateway drug for me, since that something less comfy seems to be increasingly Skwamas rather than Miuras.

I'm sure there is a wide range of shoes being made, but you don't always see a good range in shops. I guess that to carry a decent range means investing a lot of money in stock.

Since Adidas are the manufacturer (as far as the consumer is concerned), Adidas are the problem.

100% agree, stock holding is always an issue. Not just for the cost but also the space! Take the OP mentioning a well know shop in the Peak. I think we all know which one that is!!

With a huge footwear range as well as a Rock shoe range that is a ton of boxes!!

My understanding is that it was more complicated than this. Pre Adidas, I remember there were threads on here all the time about problems with quality and consistency of 5.10 shoes, with the UK distributors (who obviously had no control over the QC in the Mexican-was-it? factory) having to do a lot of damage control. 

FWIW, I was using a pair of cheaper Adidas 5.10 shoes the other weekend - that I reviewed two or three years ago. I used them loads until I started using the Scarpa shoes that I reviewed last summer. They work really well and have lasted exceedingly well. They also cost about 70 quid. I reviewed some Red Chili basic ones around the same time, that don't climb nearly as well and seem to have a design failing with the sole peeling away readily (Red Chili replaced the first pair, but the second pair started doing the same thing reasonably quickly). Same sort of price. I'd heartily recommend the 5.10 ones and wouldn't recommend the RC ones - so some of their shoes are well designed and well made.

Good knowledge! I haven't worn 5.10 for a long time so haven't followed the ins and outs very closely. Sounds like they're back on track these days.

Think you're thinking of a different boreal shoe (the crux maybe?)

The ninjas are pretty bouldering focused, though I daresay they'd be good for hard sport too 

I was in a well known Peak outdoor shop not long ago and thought a similar thing. Out of about 20 shoes, there was one I would consider trying on. The vast majority looked much too aggressively downturned for the kind of climbing that is popular just a couple of miles from the shop.

Their factory workshop was in Redlands just east of LA, totally agree that QC was not totally amazing back in the day, but fell off a cliff when production moved to China. I think this also coincided with them discontinuing a lot their most popular (in the UK) models in terms of Blanco, Anasazi and original dragon laces and replacing all of these with inferior products.

Ah yes, Duh.

Boreal Joker! That's the badger.

Bouldering participation has increased dramatically over recent years, I believe. I think this would affect the increase in shoes with more bouldering specific innovation or features. 

Outside by any chance?

Going by their website they stock 60 different rock shoes models.

Nearly half are flat lasted. And there are a bunch that are commonly worn on the grit for trad and bouldering.  I counted nearly 50 that are "suitable" for the kind of climbing that is popular just a couple of miles from the shop.

to the best of my knowledge they discontinued the Blanco as the UK was the only country buying them and considering MOQ from factory they didn't make financial sense! Shame really as they where a great boot.

Well, I can only speak for the cheapy ones I reviewed which were decent and definitely great value. But Rob G clearly really hated the new Adidas 5.10 moccasins when he reviewed them last year. He obviously didn't want to, but they very much weren't working for him! Steve McClure is still sponsored by them isn't he? I do often think when people say how terrible they are now that they don't seem to slowing Steve down at all!  

I had the opportunity to dig out my old stingmas from 10 years ago having left  both of the newer bouldering asymetric shoes at another wall recently. I can confidently declare that these vintage stngmas were great at the time (i bought them annew several times) but they aren't a patch on the new generation of asymetric shoes. The rubber is better, the thin soles offer greater sensitivity, the shape is close so no bagging, the over toe and over heel are great for hooking and scums and the materials are vegan. Don't morne your 5.10's. they have been superseeded. 

The assumption that soft, down-turned shoes are only suitable for bouldering seems old fashioned to me.  I find this type of shoe can be used in a wider variety of situations than some people assume.  They can be super comfortable and don’t need to go through a break in period.

I’ve put a few friends onto softer shoes in recent years and they’ve become converts too.

Personally I hated them as the fit was hopeless and the pair five tennie approach shoes were amongst the worst shoes I've ever owned (and regretted). 

Methinks the OP protesteth too loudly

There are plenty of flat lasted shoes in Outside. Going off memory they have Scarpa Generator and Vapour, LA Sportiva TC Pro, Katanas, Mythos, Finale, Ocun Jett, unparallel uprise pro, Up Lace, plus others I've missed, some Boreal and Evolv models. Every manufacturer sells flat lasted shoes. 

Oh and my personal favourite grit shoe, the Tenaya Masai. 

Masai FTW 🤟

I don't try on rock shoes on websites. Like I said, there was only one shoe in the shop that I was interested in, which I thought was a shame.

5.10 haven't made a decent shoe since the purple Quantum.

Change my mind. 

I have climbed almost exclusively in 5.10’s in nearly 19 years of climbing - moccs (synth, leather and 5x), pinks, green lace, Blanco, southwest, velcro, zlipper, blue quantum and dragons…and my favourite is the adidas era five ten Crawe

On my fourth pair now and use them for pretty much everything. They take a resole much better than 5.10s of old and still have the classic c4 rubber. It was the early 00’s shoes that had pretty terrible QC from my own experiences

To be fair, I loved my old moccs. 

People do talk fondly of the Crawe, it looks a strange shape to me, maybe I should get one on my foot? 

Also, you had Southwest's? I thought it was only me! I hated them, they absolutely could not do anything but stand on edges, but half the time I found that they couldn't edge because they wouldn't fit in the space in the rock. 

Outside is a shop, with a website. The stock is the same both in store and online. 

You weren't looking very hard if you didn't see a good range of flat-lasted shoes suitable for grit. That or you're talking about a different retailer I don't know about.

That's all well and good, but some of us have wide feet and/ or high insteps.

Sportiva are just too narrow for me, either they put pressure on the top of my toes, or anything wide enough to go on feels like a flipper.

Scarpa are more sensible, but they do make the Velocity which has a strap so short it won't do up over my foot.

Unparallel and 5.10 have taken perfectly good designs and made everything about their fit just slightly worse. They didn't need to do anything other than keep making the original Moccasyms and Anasazis.

Evolv never fitted that well in the first place.

Boreal have pretty poor finish quality, the stitching inside the shoes is on pressure points.

I am confident in saying that the range of fits available in climbing shoes has decreased significantly in the last 5 years.

I was referring to the complaint that there was only one shoe that was even 'interesting'....presumably not even getting to the point of trying them on. Maybe someone is particularly picky about their colourways?

Fit isn't universal across manufacturer's model ranges, it's worth trying every model. 

Have you tried Ocun a go? They are particularly good at offering a range of fits, the Ozone High Volume is designed specifically for wide feet and high instep. 

Finding the right shoe is such a personal thing. I've got a shallow foot (actually I've got 2 of them). If you remember back that far... the original Fires were just no good for me, they rolled round if I tried standing on an outside edge, but the Scarpa Cragratz which was a wide shoe, were just fine.

The original 5.10 pinks (and the whites) fit my feet just fine. The really annoying thing is that manufacturers have to "improve" things, so you then have to go through the whole process of finding out what now fits, rather than just buying another pair.

I'm not so sure. 

I think both Scarpa and La Sportiva use a range of lasts. I find some work for me and others do not, even from the same manufacturer. 

True. I have a pretty wide foot, but also have pretty bad osteoarthritis in both big toes. I've found that narrower shoes work best for me, I can cinch them up real tight to get a good edge performance, but leave enough room around the front of my big toes so that my toe joints aren't getting compressed and grinding away what's left of the cartilage there.

I tried on a pair of Strikers, the Zones looked more downturned than I was comfortable with. The Strikers were ok but I eventually settled on a pair of Scarpa Helixes (I specifically wanted something comfy for knocking about on easy routes when I climb with my girlfriend and to get my confidence back after a long lay off and some vertigo like issues that have finally died down).

The fires were old by the time I was born so I don't remember them!

Some Scarpa shoes don't fit, but having tried lots of Sportiva shoes in the past I gave up on them.

Frankly I want my 5.10 rogues back (stolen a week after they had been resolved), I could wear them for 9 pitches without needing to take them off and led several E1s in them (I tended to wear Vapours for harder stuff before my MTB accident).

I was a 5.10 loyalist (velcro Anasazi and Guide Tennies) for decades too and so the Adidas takeover was close to an existential crisis for me.  After a disastrous experiment with Scarpa Katanas (agony, no matter what I did to tough it out or stretch them) I moved to Unparallel Lace, which fitted me perfectly and were comfortable straight out of the box.

I did seem to wear a hole in the toe of these fairly quickly and, while they were being resoled I got some Up Rises for the wall and they did feel a bit odd with a bit of spare volume above my toes.  However, in a direct comparison they worked slightly better on tiny edges (before the others were resoled) and I've got used to them.

It's all very personal and some shoes just fit and others don't but I wouldn't give up on Unparallel.  They now have a replacement for Guide Tennies too...

A lot of modern shoes are downturned out of the box and flatten out pretty much instantly, while maintaining a lot more tension, which means that they fare much better on small holds without crushing your feet. You could smear perfectly fine on the old Vapour Vs (before they split the sole), you could edge well in them, and they were really comfortable, while being downturned. Relaxing your foot straightens the shoe.

My feet have been *far* happier since I made that realisation and stopped stuffing them in old fashioned shoes, I still have damage to my left big toe joint from wearing Anasazis for a decade.

Maybe I just need to try on some that don't initially look right and see how they feel. My toes can't take squeezing into aggressive shoes anymore.

To be fair, ages ago I had a pair of Sportiva Barracudas which looked very aggressive at first but could edge and smear well after a short while.

I'm sorry but you don't know what particular shoes I was looking at on the shelves on that particular day, and what I thought about how they would suit my feet. I'm reading ~60 types on the web-site, but there were ~20 on display. I was merely commenting that the selection was very biased towards aggressive looking styles.

T-Rocks we’re amazing for me a good few years back. I used to have about three pairs in half size gaps I guess I was predominantly climbing Limestone sea cliffs at the time. 
I tried a resoled one on recently - No way, not any more; the pain made me wonder why on earth I would have forced my feet into such a small space. 
 

 Plenty of rubber on the Muira lace ups and , in their price bracket, these shoes still perform much better than the offerings of most of the other manufacturers.

Thanks for all your comments guys! I was surprised to get a number of dislikes. A fairly uncontroversial subject I'd have thought, but what do I know! One or two somewhat condescending, but some practical suggestions too. Thanks Climber Bill and Lankman - you made me smile!

I think I'll stick with my 5.10s for a while yet - send at least one pair to Llanberis soon, and get my little-toe corns seen to - they're a big part of my problems with all my shoes!

Southwest’s were my second climbing shoe and first 5.10. They were sized too small on bad advice from the shop attendant. They had some weird stiffener in sole and like planks strapped to your feet, far from ideal for learning to climb on the grit - they delaminated before i could wear the sole out

I don’t think I have paid more than £87 for a pair of Crawes so that’s another bonus. A lot of shoes £120 plus these days.

Sounds like 5.10 have messed the Anasazi range up but lots of split sole shoes that are better fit out the box these days anyway as things have moved on

It Muira lace I use. Only 4mm sole rubber and delicate rand. I think the women’s version is only 3.5mm now…

edit: It’s the women’s Velcro that’s only 3.5mm

Plus, I find the Miura sole rubber fails in a peculiar way unique to them on my feet. I pivot quite a lot, and I end up getting a hole good cm or so away from the edge of the toe. I don't get that on any other shoes, at least not like that. Shame, as I love them.