UKC

i remember leo holding contemplating it but it never happened. would the onsight of indian face be the greatest trad ascent in the uk?

In reply to Anonymous:

Weird 7b+ climbing in certain serious injury/death zone.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

so you think nobody? do you think anybody is good enough?

In reply to Anonymous:

Plenty of people good enough, but is it worth the risk? Is the climbing that good?

In reply to Anonymous:
Yes

In reply to Anonymous: I did it last weekend - solo! I had completely forgotton to tell anyone until you reminded me.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

for a person that liked the mental challenge of a hard, legendary route i would think it was worth it.

In reply to Jon Dittman:
good for you. when you going to post the pictures?

In reply to Jon Dittman:

Unfortunately, when passing customs from Wales to England, my slide film got fogged by the X-Ray machine.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Really? Ben Heason is the only one I can think of with the required cool and track history of nailing techy 6c things first go, when in a dangerous position. But then I'm about 10 years out of date generally... You can't 'ground-up' this one with a pillow posse!

In reply to Anonymous:

Didn't James McHaffie try to onsight it almost on a whim a few years back and get stranded off-route in a potential death situation and have to call for a TR (which led to an epic story of endurance and almost a failed rescue etc)? Or was that another hard line on Cloggy?

In reply to JonC:
Nah, masters wall mate the E7 off to the right

In reply to Wuckers: yeah the bloody puff. just like that jerry moiffat-he was a bloody puff too. i was going to do it once but my mate got gripped on troach so we went home

In reply to Anonymous: is there any picture with this climb clearly marked on it?

In reply to djviper:
the topo in the cloggy guide. why? you up for a go?

In reply to Anonymous: Plenty of debate/suggestions here....

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=75325&v=1#1005069

In reply to Anonymous: im very tempted probably wont onsite it but i wont leave till its done! i dont have the cloggy guide tho do you have a link at all that outlines the route?

In reply to Jon Read:

I can think of a few others, at least 5.

In reply to djviper:

Can we come and watch?

In reply to Derbyshire Ben: im commiting to nothing till i have seen the route clearly on a picture lol

In reply to djviper:

What is the hardest route climbed onsite? I'm sure it's not E9.

In reply to SC:


No, but it should be, people claim to have onsighted 8b+/8c and then dont pull their fingers out and try some pathetic F7b trad like Indian Face and Meshuga. Bunch of pansies. And they get paid for it.

In reply to Ricardo Lopez:

It doesn't matter when you fail on a sport climb, you just loose the on-sight. Failure on most E9/E10 trad routes means death or at least a long stay in hospital.

In reply to SC:

well if noone has had a go at o.sighting meshuga by the time i am 30 then i will throw myself at it.

perhaps i will feel differently then though!

In reply to Ricardo Lopez:

Not sure what you mean by 'claim to'. There have been a number of 8b+ onsights including Steve Mclure and only (afaik) one 8c by Yuji Hirayama. Since theoretically 8b+ corresponds to hard E8 and 8c 'easy' E9 then the fact that no-one has onsighted E9 doesn't seem that big a suprise - particularly given that majority of the British top trad climbers are arguably not that strong / fit compared to the top sport climbers (not that YH is just a sport climber!).

In reply to Anonymous: can nobody mark me this route on a picture?i would like to try it but cant if i dont know where it goes!!

In reply to Ricardo Lopez:

Can I watch?
Have you seen what you land on if it all goes wrong?
What size/style coffin would you like?

In reply to SC:
No need for a coffin, just a waterproof sack to scrape them into

In reply to Anonymous: can no one show me this route??

In reply to djviper: I would think that not having a topo would be the least of your worries. If that's your only excuse for not going for it, I wouldn't try too hard to get hold of one if I were you!

In reply to OP: I think IF won't be onsighted for at least 20 years. I reckon it will be by someone under the age of 20 - so said person is still but a twinkle.

In reply to djviper: I can explain to you where it goes if you are really that interested, but you really should have the guide to Cloggy if you are operating at that level and are seriously interested.

Have you been up there before?

In reply to crippin:

I will give it a go as soon as it's equiped with bolts at spacings of no more than 3 feet.

In reply to Anonymous: i dont usually bother with gredes or names and the such i usually see something and if i like the look of it and belive its within my capeabilities i will have a go!

In reply to SC: That would be the only way I'd be leading it too I reckon!

In reply to djviper:

this is not within your capabilities.

In reply to djviper: <cape-abilities> are you Superman by any chance? Certainly you'd need some supernatural levitational help on IF!

In reply to smithaldo: please dont take this the rong way but why not?? whts so hard about the route?

In reply to djviper:

You should be ok if you can climb 6c+ indoors, Indian face is only 6c tech grade.

In reply to SC: all i can find on it is its super exposed about 45 m high and forget about any gear??

In reply to djviper:

You should also find that it has scared the sh*t out of some of the worlds best climbers.

In reply to djviper:

http://www.johnnydawes.com/Indian_Face.htm

Why not go and read some climbing history instead of peppering this thread with daft questions..? I doubt you'd get more than 3 feet off the floor though

To the OP: There's more than a couple of people who have contemplated it otherwise it would've seen more headpoint ascents than those by Neil Gresham and Nick Dixon. It'll get done one day, probably by someone without a big reputation...

In reply to Derbyshire Ben: daft questions?? all i wanna know is where the route goes and why its so hard?

In reply to djviper:
and why its so hard?

Because the holds aren't very big.

In reply to djviper:
Either:
a) You're trolling, in which case why should anyone bother.

or

b) You are immeasurably stupid in which case nobody is going to do anything to encourage you to go near it!

In reply to Serpico:

And there aren't many of them.

In reply to djviper:
djviper. With respect, if you're not trolling you're asking very silly questions. Why don't go away and read some of the literature on IF? The current cloggy guidebook in particular has a wealth on information on the route and the vast amount of history behind it (and the whole of Cloggy).

If you can't afford to buy it go into a climbing shop and just read the first few pages, where Neil Gresham decribes his ascent. That should give you enough of an idea whether you want to try it or not.

In reply to Alun:
https://www.cordee.co.uk/cgi-bin/blurb_nw.pl?Cordee_Ref_No=CCW002

In reply to djviper:

>all i wanna know is where the route goes and why its so hard?

OK, I'll answer your daft question.

It goes up the blank looking section of the Great Wall on Cloggy.. it features very tenuous and technical climbing throughout with an awful English 6c crux section and here is the list of gear on the entire route.

"the RURP in the top overlap. It is in only an eighth of an inch, but is tied off with 2mm Perlon. The RURP is at about 100ft. Above that there is no gear that would hold body weight. Thirty feet below there is an RP2, and this, on "shock tape", provides the crucial gear. This is backed up by a Chouinard one-half biting in a loose flake, and below this is a 2mm Perlon sling and an RP zero. For the other rope RPs 3 and 4 in poor placements and a situ nut l0ft above, which came out. At 45ft there is a Stopper 6 (filed down on Kevlar rope) between two fins - the best runner on "Master's Wall"

To date it has had three ascents, the second and third resorting to extensive top-rope rehearsal, pre-placed gear including taped down skyhooks...

For many people, even before it was finally completed (earlier routes took exits) the route represented a pinnacle of traditional climbing in the UK and it has been a source inspiration and controversy for the last three decades..

In reply to Derbyshire Ben:

Put it another way to even consider a headpoint ascent you want to be climbing probably at least 8a+ on sport routes (it's "only" 7b+ or so I've heard) and have plenty of E8's under your belt - the subsequent ascentionists had all this in spades and still found it something of an ordeal..

In reply to Anonymous: im not a troll at all all i have seen of the route is a bad picture on here! as for silly questions i dont think asking if some one has a picture of the route or asking why its so hard to be silly!
if i have come accross this way i am sorry its not intentional

In reply to djviper:

Dear all

The type of person who will onsight Indian Face will have to have a combination the technical ability of a sports climber and the attitude of djviper. It will be done, or climbing in the UK will be finished.

Norrie

In reply to Derbyshire Ben:



In fairness to the guy it isn't such a daft question. The daft statement was "i'd like to have a go at it" !!

In reply to Norrie Muir:

I agree - see my earlier post. It'll be donw by a keen youth who doesn't have the burden of history resting on their shoulders. djvipers too old

In reply to Alun:

OK, OK, we're splitting hairs, but at least I answered his question!

In reply: ah norrie can you please explain this route to me

and in reply to giving it a go being a daft thing why is this so ?? is this because you dont have the bottle? at the end of the day if the mountaineering comunitie said no to every thing that seams a hard challange we would indeed be a sad bunch!

In reply to djviper:

Just curious.. did you read what I wrote about the route (where it goes, why it's hard etc.). What else would you like to know?

In reply to djviper:


Because you will die. It's doubtful you'd get far enough up it to make a quick death too, there'd probably be a fair amount of pain first.

If you don't die, you will most likely be eating your food through a straw for the rest of your life.

Idiot.

In reply to Derbyshire Ben: it poped up just after i posted mate
small holds and no protection,
all i want is someone to mark it on a photo for me lol
i probably wont be able to do it but id rather have a go at it than not!its just who i am as a person

In reply to Derbyshire Ben:

Dear Ben

Right, I missed it. It is also a sad reflection on the climbing superstars of late, that it has not been done yet. Just think of the additional sponsorship they would get.

Norrie

In reply to Anonymous: i dont get this because im not sitting there going "oooo im too scared to atempt it" im an idiot?? guys thats such a pathetic thing to say

In reply to djviper:
mate no one thinks you're an idiot for wanting to try , but neither is anybody taking you seriously. What's your hardest lead outdoors? If it's anything below E6 onsight and/or at least sport 7c, you probably wouldn't get off the ground on the Indian Face. Though I must admit, as Norrie and Ben have said, all credit to your ambition.

In reply to Alun: ive truthfully got no idea what i climb at outdoor i dont pay anyattention to grades! if i see something and like the look i climb it! im not even saying i can/will do if all i am asking is for someone to mark it on a pic for me so i can see for meself

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie,

What's the history of the climb to date? Unti I read this, I thought it HAD been onsighted. But that must have been a headpoint, no?

In reply to Anonymous: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/djviper_thc/8956.jpg

is this the correct rout marked??

In reply to djviper:
No it's nearer green line

http://www.alunthomasevans.co.uk/alstuff/8956.jpg

though you can't really tell that closely on that photo - there are several other lines on that section of the cliff (Great Wall), the easiest (I think?) being Great Wall the route, which goes at E4.

In reply to djviper:
no- too far left. It finishes halfway up the center of the crag at the top of the rectangular slab right in the centre of my photo.
Get the guidebook- it has several photo topo's and pictures of routes adjacent to the indian face- and lots and lots of beta, history and stories. Probrably the best guidebook in the universe.

In reply to JonC:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/mag...

In reply to djviper: Ummm - Im not casting aspersions on your climbing abilities - but could you please tell me the name and grade of just one route that you have led? Thankyou.

In reply to David Hooper: i truthfully havnt a clue mate

Al Siddons... there's a copy of the radio broadcast between Redhead, Dawes and I think Gresham and Dixon discussing the FA here on Redheads website..

http://www.fachwen.org/seriousclowning/broadcast/index.html

In reply to Anonymous: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/djviper_thc/5b8ddf04.jpg

is this closer???

In reply to djviper: If you truthfully havent got a clue - leave an attempt on The Indian Face until you do. You will die and the way you offhandedly talk about the route belittles the great achievement of the 3 (?) people who have climbed it.

OK - if you dont have a clue what you have climbed - do you know where you have climbed ?

In reply to David Hooper: ok fine i wont climb it i would sugest no one ever does because it too hard!!!

i have to be honest i find this attitude pathetic! all i have asked is for one picture with the route marked on it im not belittleing any acheivment by any one i am mearly suggestin god forbid that i have a go!!!

In reply to djviper: Where have you rock climbed outdoors before?

(In reply to David Hooper) ok fine i wont climb it i would sugest no one ever does because it too hard!!!

P.S. Tuck your bottom lip in

In reply to David Hooper:
wales mainly snowdonia range
ben nevis lawers and ghlas
winter accents of belcotte and surroundin peaks in le plagne
and accents of quiet a few cliff faces on the isle of white, all my accents to date have been free atempts with no protectin at all

In reply to djviper: Have you scaled Mount Snowdonia or Mount Ogwen? With or without ropes or protectin?

In reply to djviper:

P.S. Free atempts???...........you mean the cliff inspectors didn't try to sell you a ticket???

In reply to David Hooper: snowdon no protection quiet a few times including a winter accent straight up the crib

In reply to David Hooper: lmao

free attempts no rope or protection

In reply to David Hooper:

I did ~Snowdon once ...... had a train pass me ( unroped too)!!!

couldnt believe it???!!!

In reply to djviper:

Dear djviper

On an earlier post I posted "The type of person who will onsight Indian Face will have to have a combination the technical ability of a sports climber and the attitude of djviper". I omitted an other attribute, the climber to onsight it has also to have bottle or if it is a male they have to have big balls.

Norrie

In reply to Anonymous: Wow, you mean you bunked onto the cliff without paying and conquered them without ropes and protectin..................I'm impressed...........I retract my original comments re The Indian Face. I bet you could scale and conker it.

By the way have you conkered the Mount Alum Bay range on the Isle of White or Mount Langdale in the Lakes. I myself have nearly scaled Mount Coniston but am still building up to conker Mount Langdale???

In reply to Norrie Muir: i dont suppose you have a picture of the route marked do you??

In reply to David Hooper: mate im not trying to impress i dont even care what you may or may not think of my ability all i wanted was a marked route!

In reply to djviper: I could introduce you to this little bloke called Johnny Dawes - he has conkered mount Snowdonia and could point out the Indian Face and maybe hold your rope.........would you like heees fonne nomberr???

P.S. Have you scaled Mount Moel fammau in the Clywydian range.......I have scakled this many times in summer and winter without ropes but with my dog sometimes and sometimes and orange heavy guage plastic bag (for descent)

In reply to djviper:

You got one! It's here

http://www.alunthomasevans.co.uk/alstuff/8956.jpg

And even in more detail here:

http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/CHAY-4U5PUP/cloggy.jpg

becuase you can see where it continues where Masters Wall ducks out of the hard bit...

In reply to djviper: On a serious note - go to an outdoor shop and have a look in the back of the Cloggy Guide?

Have u climbed Mount Ogwen......if you have climbed Mount Snowdonia I would have thought you would have done

In reply to djviper:

Dear djviper

Sorry I haven't. I walked below the face once before it was climbed, you should have a look at the face for real. I have seen steeper rock, but it was out of my league. You should go for it.

Norrie

In reply to David Hooper: mate which is it of you link a pic i will tell you

In reply to Norrie Muir: ill probably go and look at it and decide from there mate thanks for the only sensable responce

In reply to Anonymous: P.S. I have just phoned my best friend (apart from Pete W and JCT) who is editor of TRAIL magazine ......the famous magazine for mountain conkerers and cliff scalers. He said that in three months time when Cloggy is dry they may be printing an article on climbing the Indian face with a diagram so that the TRAIL readers can go and conker Indian Face.

In reply to djviper:

Sorry M8 LOL I dont understand this post???

In reply to David Hooper: Oh sorry yes I do..........Mount Ogwen is that rocky one with the two big rocks on top that look like people........I think cliff climbers call them "Posh and Becks" and if you can jump from one to the other you get the freedom of Mount Ogwen.......have you ever done that.........I would like to be brave enough to but I would need my speshull sticky boots I think LOL

In reply to Derbyshire Ben:

Thanks - what a brilliant find. I'm looking forward to this. Cheers mate.

In reply to David Hooper:
Dear David

Please refrain from any more mushrooms tonight. You are replying to yourself.

Norrie

In reply to David Hooper: are you talking about the "leap of faith" ??

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

Ohhhh but I'm really having fun..........shroom season isnt till autumn and anyway I'm much too mentally unstable to dabble with pychotropics.

I am however mainly eating roast winter vegetables with a Parmesan Sauce.

have you free scaled Mount Snowdonia in winter without ropes and protectin Norrie???

David

In reply to djviper: Isnt that a sponsored abseil for the RNIB???

In reply to djviper: It may be that.......it is where you scale Mount Ogwen right to the very top and then you jump from one rock to another (Posh to Becks) with a 3000m sheer cliff all around.......if you make it alive you get the Freedom of Mount Ogwen

David

In reply to David Hooper: yep i no it as the leap of faith

In reply to Anonymous:

I'd just like to congratulate everbody who partook in this thread for having kept me highly entertained throughout an otherwise very boring afternoons work.

Thanks.

In reply to djviper: So you have done the posh and Becks "leap of faith" on Mount Ogwen......thats f*ckin brilliant mate.........was it really scary......can you give me any tips cos when I have trained enough I want to atempt it also?

Thankyou mate

David

In reply to Matt Rees:
Shucks Matt......its just a gift i expect.....I want to cook me tea but cant tear myself away from the entertainment.

In reply to David Hooper: i honestly couldnt tell you if its even the same one your talking about mate all i can tell you is ive been on the top of a mountain with two pillars on top abou 2-3 foot square on top with a big a dam scarey jump from one to the other

In reply to David Hooper:

Dear David

To my eternal shame, I have not even did it in summer, even though I climbed in Cloggy. I did fancy coming down and doing Great Slab in winter, I would have used a rope, but no protection. I was never very good at using protection.

Norrie

Norrie

In reply to djviper: Yeah yeah thats the one mate......have you done it.......it looks scary???

Your mate

David

In reply to Anonymous:I find the whole idea of egging people on to do dangerous climbs rather distasteful. I have no problem with people doing them for there own satisfaction but media attention is a bit sick. I don't think whether people have onsighted 8b+ is the relevant issue. What matters is to be able to never fail on 7b+. I'd guess a lot of people who onsight 8a+ with 50% chance still occassionally fluff 7b+.

In reply to David Hooper: yes if thats what your on about and its only scarey if you think you will not make it!
belive you can make it and jump!

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

If you would scale the Great Slab Face of Mount Cloggy in the Snowdonia Range (not the Isle of Wight) in winter with no protection - then why bother with the rope.

Best regards

David

P.S.

I bet you have done the free (with no rope and protectin) Leap of faith from posh to Becks in winter tho havent you?

In reply to stone:

Dear stone

All climbs are dangerous, except most routes on the grit, where one can jump off them before one falls. So what really is your point?

Norrie

In reply to djviper:

Thankyou for the encouragement djviper......I will focus on this and make it my main ambition for this summer........could you give me any further details that will aid my free ascent of the Posh and Becks leap of faith.....could you post a picture or give me any more info.....I would really appreciate this as I have wanted to have a jump with Posh and Becks for ages, but have been too shy

In reply to David Hooper:

Dear David

Even before they were named Posh & Becks.

Norrie

In reply to David Hooper:
I have wanted to have a jump with Posh

Dear David

I nearly vomited at the thought.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

Were they not christened Posh and Becks in the Golden Age of Mountaineering by that great climber, pycholgist, Christian and manic depressive fudgepacker J Menlove Edwards?

Shirley you are younger than that Norrie?

Nuff respec for making the "Leap of Faith"....bet it was well scarier than anything you did in Scotland ....right???

Regards

David

In reply to Norrie Muir: Yes.....it is difficult to control ones nerves before a serious attempt to Mount Beckham.

In reply to David Hooper: god now thas sick!

In reply to djviper: Norrie is sick (although he is Scottish)..........he deserves the mountaineering communites ascent for jumpimng Posh and becks when it was cold.........as well as conkering Mount Ben Nevis

In reply to David Hooper: Sorry that should have read Norrie ISNT sick.....typo error

In reply to David Hooper:
that great climber, pycholgist, Christian and manic depressive fudgepacker J Menlove Edwards?

Dear David

I soloed one of J's routes once and the bunch of fairies who watched me were going to give me a kiss. So I never did any more of J's routes, in case I was accosted again.

Norrie

Dear David

I soloed one of J's routes once


You mean you went up Menloves passage unprotected???

In reply to Anonymous: Dear DJ Viper..........I have to go offline to finish my dinner but I really would appreciate any info you can give me in helping in my quest to jump Posh and becks this summer..........I look forwards to your replies.

Thankyou in anticipation

Your mate

David

In reply to David Hooper: hahahaha cunny funt

In reply to djviper: Oi who you calling cunny funt.......Betty Swollocks!!!

In reply to David Hooper: u do realise i no im probably going to need a top rope lowered to save my arse on IF but when im ready im still going to try and will keep trying till i get up it even if not onsite

In reply to djviper: ive read this thread and i think you are trying to wind up some people on here,if you dont know what routes you have done indian face will never be one of them
i climb with only 1 person who very realistacilly could o/s indian face and i doubt even he is that stupid.he's os numerous e7's including f.a's.done upto e9 too.
even lookin at it would scare you.
try masters wall if you are stil alive have a go.

In reply to djviper:

I am apalled that these people are belittling your commendable ambition to onsight Indian Face. I would however suggest that you take a leaf out of Leo Houlding's book and gain a familiarity with the style of climbing on this wall with a quick warm-up on Master's Wall.

Good luck.

In reply to Jamie B.: belive me mate im not going to atempt it till i feel i am fully ready but i will have a go and i will give it my all

In reply to djviper:

You will definately need to give it your all. Leo Houlding is one of the world's most talented on-sighters on adventure terrain, and he appears to have binned the idea.

If and when you pull off the onsight it will be lauded as one of the greatest climbing feats of all time. I hope you will be able to deal with the media attention.

In reply to djviper: Dear DJ Viper.......could you please give me beta on leap of faith.......I will swap you for Johnny Dawes phone number. Please let me know when you are going to attempt to conker Indian Face as I would love to come and give you moral supprot as I am sure would many other contributors to this thread.

In reply to djviper:

Warm up shmarm up.
What are you man or mouse? Its simple really, have yourself a monster omlette in petes, have a wander up to cloggy, squeak your boots and off you go. The problem is with rockfax folk is they have no faith. You're quite clearly capable of it if you keep your shit together, the gear is obviously bombproof, and its a piece of piss to escape. I reckon you should go for it mate, you have my full support.
Now go forth and climb, and god speed.

In reply to Jamie B.:

Dear Jamie

I think you have the wrong route and location in mind. It is not a 30' grit problem.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

You seem to have a rather large problem with grit. Do sloping holds scare you?

Bomb

In reply to bomb:
Dear Bomb

I have few problems with grit, in fact I travelled nearly 300 miles to climb on it quite a few times. I was never scared on the grit as I could always jump off the routes when it got too difficult for me. I don't use chalk on grit as I don't sweat on sloping holds, as I am not scared.

What problems I had climbing related to jamming cracks, that is why I came down to the grit, to learn how to jam. Mind you I had a struggle when I soloed The Rasp, but my jamming had improved I did not need to jump off it.

Norrie

In reply to djviper:

Make sure you take a bouldering mat so when you come off you don't hurt your ankles, it doesn't sound like you'll need anything else.

In reply to squeek:

I think you're missing out some creature comforts:

What about a chalk bag? Sandwiches? Thermos? Bivvy bag or tent in case of benightment, bad weather or illness? A laminated topo so as not to go off route? Maybe some Kendal mint cake? Spare socks? A book? Headtorch, of course? Some good tunes on the old IPOD? Copies of Deep Play and Touching the Void to stimulate the imagination?
Some spare clothing, of course.

In reply to al siddons:

And a fecking great big ladder....

In reply to Matt Rees:

Better still: a cherry-picker. That way, one can climb it without the risk. Same view, just a slightly different approach.

In reply to Anonymous: I'd like to see this djviper onsight an easy E1, me thinks he'sa vdiff climber (who's top roped a vs but can abseil E6

In reply to sloper: Nah---he is well cool---he has free scaled and conkered Mount Ogwen and jumped Posh and Becks on top---leave him alone

In reply to Anonymous: at the end of the day guys time will tell,but i promice you all this i will let you all know when im going to climb it if i sucseed i get to the top if i dont at least i proved mildly amusing!

In reply to djviper:

How about a big event, you could sell tickets, maybe even get sponsored, I'm sure Co-op Funeral services would sponser you. Let us know when, I want to see this.

In reply: why is it that someone comes forwards with ambition and drive that he gets slated by every one?

In reply to djviper:

I'm right behind you djviper.

I truly, deeply believe that only a climber with vision and willingness to try could onsight the Indian Face.

I only hope that your knees aren't too brittle for the job.

In reply to djviper:
I have to say this thread has made me laugh a few times, nice one Djviper - good troll!

In reply to djviper:


Looking at a couple of your previous postings suggest you are almost certainly full of sh1t:

"has anyone been over there? thinking of a weeks playtime and just wondering what gear to pack any suggestions?"

"i love dmm but am realy taking a shine to zero g at the mo"

In reply to Anonymous: right im not a troll at all just a bloke with a lot of ambition im sorry if this is causing offence to any one

In reply to GrahamD:

how have you come to this conclusion?? im going somewhere and am asking for advice from anyone who has been there how is this sh!t???

and i do like zero g there cheap gear and the same spec as some higher priced brands

In reply to TimB:



That's spooky, I thought there was an element of Louise about this to.

In reply to djviper:

What did you do on the isle of wight? all big soft chalk cliffs, not really climbing is it (unless ur using dry tooling gear?) Just interested

In reply to Rob in a Field: not realy climbing at all mate but good fun to try to get up none the less, usually gets a little loose at the top though

In reply to djviper:

Dear djviper,

Your profile tends to suggest your outdoor interest are in mountaineering. Perhaps you could outline your rock climbing experience in more detail, considering you are after all proposing to undertake some rather serious rock climbing.

Best wishes, Paul

In reply to djviper:

Loose at the top? and the bottom, middle and all the rest in between! where on the island were you climbing/scrambling?

In reply to paul hesketh: my main thng is mountaineering mate hence im so stubborn and refuse to give up lol

as for my rock expereance i dont have a huge amount of expereance but if you havnt guessed im probably the most stubborn person any one will meet and belive me i may not be able to do this this year but i will do it!

In reply to Rob in a Field: i dont know the actual name of the area but i can tell you that it was near to the white mouse inn lol

In reply to djviper:


'cause you sound like a crack-pot mate.

In reply to catbaiter: a fair point mate im not though im just encredible confident

In reply to djviper:

And presumably not averse to being a great deal rounder and flatter too?

In reply to catbaiter: i have to admit it wasnt in my "grand life scheme"

In reply to Anonymous: Dear djviper - have you heard of the famous climber Walter Mitty?

In reply to David Hooper: nope but ive heard of a fictictious charicter by James Thurber why ??

In reply to djviper:
or that guy (Ken Macullogh ?) who put up a whole series of new routes on Gogarth ?

You sound about as plausible (or I'll admit an amusing troll)

In reply to Doug: nope that name doesnt ring a bell either mate

In reply to djviper: As a serious and deturmined monutaineer, I think that you should update you profile to ED2+, AD really is not 'way out' or 'knarly' enough for some one of your clear ability and deturmination.

As for Indian Face, I will have a go, as a highball boulder problem. How badly can I hurt myself if I can't get more than 8 feet of the ground (thats my hands not my feet).

In reply to Stormmagnet: as ive said before mate i dont have a clue when it comes to grades the ad is just a guess lol
but i am starting my 7 summits in august with an uportered accent of elbrus if this helps?

In reply to djviper: Not an expert on Elbrus but just done a quick search which would suggest an alpine grade in the region of Facile / PD- ? Does anyone know any better?

In reply to Stormmagnet: sounds about right im not sure of the grade myself but it looks like an enjoyable 10 days

In reply to djviper:

Are you sure you're not Louise in disguise?

In reply to Derbyshire Ben: whos louise??

In reply to djviper:
A tragic girl, could have been a world leader in many sports, including climbing, but for a debilitating illness...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22brittle+knees%22&btnG=Goo...

In reply to Ridge: hmmm!

In reply to Anonymous:

viper you are clearly crazier than a bag full of badgers. or a troll. either way your posts amuse me greatly so keep them coming. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious but what you are proposing to do might be a touch unrealistic...

A while ago I wrote up a transcript of that radio programe about 'The Indian face'. Might be of interest to somebody...


http://www.therockzone.co.uk/therockzone/moveonrock.html

In reply to belmonkey: i am certifiable mate!

In reply to djviper: i suggest you go up there and try it cos you are boring me now.

In reply to Anonymous:

I'm mad me!

In reply to Anonymous:

Does anyone else find that self proclaimed insanity as a form of personal flattery is irritating to the point of homicide? Or is that just me?

In reply to catbaiter:

Me? i'm bonkers

ohohooooooa hahah haa opfkoodjf

In reply : im joking and trying to take thing lightly and if the thred is boring you cat dont read it!

In reply to Gfunk:
Well we know that G!

Think Nick Dixon commented that to onsight Indian Face would be to `commit suicide'. Well what does he know - what's he ever done on grit <sic>? Seriously think positive - anyway sounds like a hell of a way to go. Someone else on one of the other threads said something absolutely brilliant, (because it would make a classic story if it happened this way), that a potential onsighter would have to spend a lot of time onsighting everything else on cloggy, getting used to the place and the rock, which is a bit weird apparently. So just like trad climbing then. Maybe you even need a bit more than the ability to onsight juggy Frog 7b+ sport routes on bolts, and the head for it.

In reply to djviper:
In 'The Villain' JIm Perrin writes of a guy who took a fall on pinnacle flake(?)- a route on the wall above the great wall & IF. His anchor failed and he fell the full length of the crag onto the scree below and survived (just!). But I think he may have been lucky.

In reply to Paz:
i was thinking the same. lots of cloggy experience would be needed to give you any chance.

i look forward to this route being onsighted.

In reply to Anonymous: if any one needs me i shall be living in a tent infront of cloggy for the next 6 years

In reply to djviper:

You talk a lot about gear for someone who claims they don't use it.

In reply to djviper:

I suspect a bouncy castle might serve you better.

In reply to djviper:
let me know if you need any rps or stoppers -i hear they are useful. and remeber anything less than the onsight has already been done. no top roping and no pre-inspection!!

In reply to catbaiter:

Trampoline would be better, then you can just bounce back to where you fell from.

In reply to SC:

Good thinking, I just happen to like bouncy castles.

Of course he'd have to climb in his socks, everyone knows that you're not allowed shoes on trampolines or bouncy castles.

In reply to GrahamD: just because i usualy dont use it doesnt mean im foolish enough not to carry it and know how to use it!

In reply to DJViper:
If you are going for the 7 summits I bet you must have a well paid job

On a more serious note looking at your profile would suggest that you have done some summer and winter walking and scrambling - in the old days before the advent of climbing walls this is how most people started their rock climbing apprentiships so good show for this!!!

Unfortunately your self stated confidence would seem to far outweigh your competence (no slur intended) which would at best teach you some hard lessons early and at worst you will die.

Go and have a look at Indian face and if you are inspired that is great - we all have dreams and ambitions. But before you attempt it get the mileage in. join a climbing club or go on a course. Learn about protection and ropework, start climbing at a grade which is comfortable for you and then work your way through the grades---start training and hard bouldering, you will need to be fit---start doing routes with longer and longer runouts,you will need a cool head. Climb all the other routes on Cloggy first maybe. You will probably need to be a ble to solo (free climb is a misnomer by the way) E6 or E7 first.

And do let us know how your progress is going.

I dont think you are a troll - you are real.

Best wishes

David

In reply to djviper:
Hey man. Care to place a wager. I bet that after all this muscle flexing your doing on this thread you never actually go for it... ever. Id really like to do a few knarley sends, but I wouldnt resort to barking on and on about them like an excited 12 year old. Bad karma dude.

In reply to David Hooper: thank you for giving the first real answer mate

i do understand i have a lot of learning to do before i am capable mate i do go to the indoore wall about 4 or 5 times a wwek at the mo and probably spend about 3 hours in each sesion, i do also enjoy the bouldering cave there my outdoor experiance is limited as such at the moment but i am getting out more and more. i realisiticly dont expect to be able to think about the onsite for at least a couple of years yet


thanks once again for a sensable answer

In reply to djviper: Just out of interest ---what harness do you own and what knot do you use to tie in with?

In reply to David Hooper: ive got a petzle caldris because its the only one thats fits me comfortable and all the gear loops are at the front and bottom of the harness (for use with a sack) and i tie in with a figer 8 retied (cant spell) whay do you ask??

In reply to djviper: Yes it is probably very sensible to leave IF for at least a couple of years

In reply to djviper: Just checking your basic knowledge - Im off to work now but Ive really enjoyed contributing to your thread - thanks for the entertainment and i really do hope you manage to Onsight IF one day - that would probably be the crowning achievement in world rock climbing

In reply to David Hooper: He may want to tuck his tousers in his socks to stop the excrement making the climb even more tricky

In reply to Anonymous:
I don'tknow what is more sad. The fact that you've spent 3 days arguing about something ridiculous or that I've just spent an hour reading it all!

In reply to Joe_white:

Dear Joe

Either you should have made up your mind sooner or learned to speedread, then you would not be a sad person.

Norrie

In reply to Joe_white:

Ditto

In reply to David Hooper: You seem to know a lot about the hard routes in Snowdonia. Do you think it's a good idea to build a scale model of Cloggy East Buttress (complete with detachable flake and John Redhead painting) in my garage? It wouldn't be as tall as the real thing, but I could begin with a sitdown start.

PS Does anyone know if that corner in the Llanberis Pass has been climbed yet? Looks to me like it might go with a bit of aid and a bolt or two?
PPS Any beta on the South Face of Mount Ogwen would be appreciated. It must be well hard if the Huber Bros failed on it (poor old Heinrich Huber - the less well known little brother - lost several fingers through frostbite)

Seriously, though, I wonder if there's anything in Mr. djviper's totally naive approach to climbing? Forget the grade and the history and the reputation and just have a go?

In reply to Marc C:
Probably..many people say rhe hardest thing about climbing the North Face of the Eiger is dealing with the weight of history, rather than the actual climbing.

In reply to John Alcock:

Yes, but when have you heard of a successul ascent by someone who just saw it on TV? There'd need to be some technical ability, nerves of steel and the experience to minimise objective danger, no?

In reply to John Alcock:

Personally, if I happened to on it I suspect the large blocks raining down around would me would seem more problematic.

In reply to John Alcock:

Dear John

I turned back when I was trying to solo it, not because it was hard or the stonefalls. There was no stonefalls, but I bottled it thinking my luck won't hold out as the face has a history of stonefalls. When I got back down, I laid down looking at the face for 5 hours and never saw or heard a stonefall, I was tempted to go back up, but the decission was made.

Norrie

Norrie

In reply to Lizard:

>In 'The Villain' JIm Perrin writes of a guy who took a fall on pinnacle flake(?)- a route on the wall above the great wall & IF. His anchor failed and he fell the full length of the crag onto the scree below and survived (just!). But I think he may have been lucky.

You sure? This is how Hugh Gair was killed, is it not? Or did he just fall while scrambling around below Octo - actually I think he did. It was Terry Taylor and/or someone else who fell off Pinnacle Flake and went the distance, I think?

jcm

In reply to jcm:

Hugh Gair? you jest surely...
an unfortunate name if not

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

What is your hardest lead/solo on grit?

Bomb

In reply to andynonymous:

Yes, I was wondering about this Huge Air. Is he for real?

In reply to djviper:

Erm i hate to piss on your isle of white expedition theories but the white mouse inn, is in fact nowhere near the only climbing on the island, near the needles.
It has a nice beer garden though.

However, despite your extensive falsehoods on this subject, I am convinced that you are the right man for Indian face, and feel I must warn you thus:

All your postings and queries on the route have resulted in a wealth of information heading your way. One could argue that all this information would be classified, in climbing terminology, as "beta". If you have read this "beta", and judging from your replies one would suspect you have, then your opponents could argue that you would no longer be able to claim the on-sight ascent, having had prior information, and would only qualify for the flash.
I therefore recommend that you now choose a different route, and without telling anybody about it beforehand, because whereas an on-sight of indian face would have been indeed ground breaking (quite literally), a flash would be nothing more than trivial.

You and your big mouth.

In reply to bomb:
Dear Bomb

I never used a rope on the grit, so I only soloed on it. As I stated on another post, I found The Rasp the most difficult for me. I may have climbed more technically harder routes, as they suited my style of climbing - slopey holds, balance and no jamming. What they were I don't know, as I climbed 10 hours a day without a guidebook. I did enjoy climbing on the grit, but

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

Did you ever solo time for tea at millstone? When that starts getting scarey you cannot jump off.

Bomb

In reply to bomb:

Dear Bomb

Have you?

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Dear Norrie

No, but knowing people who have and knowing a bit about the route would bring me to think the above.
So, have you?]

Bomb

In reply to bomb:
Dear Bomb

No, I have not did it. That type of thin crack climbing is not for me. There are plenty of other great crack lines at Millstone that I have not done either.

Norrie

Dear djviper: thought you might like to read this account from Johnny Dawes' website



'...The next day I was much better prepared mentally and physically, but deep down knew something primitive was being expended on each effort: I was getting psyched out rather than familiar. The wall's mechanics were becoming exterior and disconcerting; there is never a place to get into the rock, no groove to shadow your fear. Just blankness and no gear. I abseiled down the climb a third time, got the holds clean, practiced the entry to the upper flakes, where I had gone wrong twice previously and had to down-climb 30ft on side-pulls and smears to escape.

I tested the RURP in the top overlap. It is in only an eighth of an inch, but is tied off with 2mm Perlon. The RURP is at about 100ft. Above that there is no gear that would hold body weight. Thirty feet below there is an RP2, and this, on "shock tape", provides the crucial gear. This is backed up by a Chouinard one-half biting in a loose flake, and below this is a 2mm Perlon sling and an RP zero. For the other rope RPs 3 and 4 in poor placements and a situ nut l0ft above, which came out. At 45ft there is a Stopper 6 (filed down on Kevlar rope) between two fins - the best runner on "Master's Wall".

The climbing itself is hard, and with eight bolts would rate about E6 6b/c but there is only half a bolt and that stares at you while you laugh at your runners, a tribute both to a man's vision and to his shortsightedness. John Redhead's voyages on this wall deserve special praise. He had already done The Bells at North Stack and was working on the sweeping scoop right of Midsummer. He had one near-fatal fall from high up when, placing a small wire, his foot slipped on a smear, the resin worn off his Canyons. The Stopper 6 took the fall and back up he went. This time he lowered off the Stopper 1, which skated in its placement. Another visit had him jumping for a 9mm abseil rope.

Redhead, frustrated but proud, placed a bolt like a dog pissing to mark his territory, and retreated to recover. An 80ft cameo, fresh but incomplete, The Tormented Ejaculation (E8 7a) rests in his portfolio. But the line remained.

Jerry Moffatt arrived, chopped the bolt, and the Master's Wall remained. Before that, there had been other efforts. Ray Evans and Hank Pasquill had tried the line on sight; failures more impressive than latter successes perhaps; while Mick Fowler had climbed an impressive route in Spreadeagle, which starts in the groove left of The Master's Start and finishes left of the upper section of Moffatt's route. It was my turn to struggle with obsession.

There comes a time when the romance of the climb is crowded out by the raw danger of the route, and this happened on the third day. On the fourth I walked up walk down again, somebody's son and friend.

Imagine the wall. It is a random-woven wire mesh, tilted so that it steepens towards its top. At the base two thick cables disappear in the turf. The lights in the town flicker as you touch the rock. Each move forms an electric circuit between your hands. As you move, you worry about the outcome of that move, the tension a dull hum. Then I make a false move and the rock barks out a spark. I try another hold - but which one to use? Use the wrong one and retreat may be impossible. The gear is poor and a bad mistake could mean a death-jolt full across the heart. So you move, taking note of your position and the holds, but as you move higher the voltage grows and amongst the myriad connections there lie false trails that can kill.

I went up with sticky rubber soles which do not conduct electricity and two friends who knew the score.

At 70ft I felt OK. An automaton in a plastic bag, my brain floated out in space behind me. It had slim threads which blew in the wind but didn't seem to be catching on anything; so I continued. As I climbed I felt as if I was not there, but I wasn't somewhere else either. Just nowhere; alone on the surface. I arrived on the flake, the moves a blur, the body smudged over the rock. I was playing chess with the Woubits gort. On the way up to the crag for only three steps the eyes of the gort are visible: the first and last steps see it wink, the middle step sees its full centuries-stare. I could see it no longer, but I knew it was there with its dagger ears.

In went light pieces of metal, fiddling with unfIoured pastry on the top of my mother's birthday cake when I was twelve. The asymmetric stopwatch was complete.

All the time my mouth would give out these little tunes which disappeared. Then heavy breathing, and then short jerky gulps: shallow panting. In went the RP2 just above. I climb up and begin to live dangerously; steep and sequency climbing on undercuts and dimples just below the point of commitment. I'm l0ft from gear and decide to downclimb as if on the last training traverse on the climbing wall. I come level with the gear. "Slow and smooth," my mouth says as I lower off for a rest.

The release of tension was enough to make me want to stay on the ground, but I knew I would only be back next year. I had no choice. Twenty-five minutes rest and a cigarette and the two sides of my feelings still did not converge. I need to do it, but I desperately want to walk home happy. I knew that would be a lie so I go up to die a little more; homeopathy.

A hundred feet up, out over the last gear, I'm faced with the first of the hardest moves. My anxiety has made me enter the moves before reflection and the rock is all in the wrong place. My body feels heavy and lumpy. I slap out right, a move that should be static, and am committed to the crux, a precarious mantel onto a rounded boss. If I fell on this move the gear off to the left would rip...
I was there for half an hour; totally alone, the overall crux ahead, yet my position physically comfortable. Rescue twenty minutes away. I would have to say 'Yes' and 'No' to the finish five or six times by the time they had reached the top and lowered me a lifeline.

I went for the crux, the motion startling me like a car unexpectedly in gear in a crowded parking lot. I swarm through the roundness of the bulge to a crank on a brittle spike for a cluster of three crystals on the right; each finger crucial and separate like the keys for a piano chord. I change feet three times to rest my lower legs, each time having to jump my foot out to put the other in. The finger-holds are too poor to hang on should the toes catch on each other. All those foot-changing mistakes on easy moves by runners come to mind. There is no resting. I must go and climb for the top. I swarm up towards the sunlight, gasping for air. A brittle hold stays under mistreatment and then I really blow it. Fearful of a smear on now-non-sticky boots I use an edge and move up, a fall fatal, but the automaton stabs back through, wobbling, but giving its all and I grasp a large sidepull and tube upward. The ropes dangle uselessly from my waist. Arthur Birtwhistle on Diagonal, I grasp in cuts and the tight movement swerves to a glide as gravity swings skyward.

Indian Face is climbed and I can rest and feel proud:


© Johnny Dawes Ltd.

In reply to al siddons: thanks for this insite but ive already been pointed towards his web site earler in this post

In reply to bomb: stand in the door way of the white mouse inn walk in a straigt line throught the famers field infront of you and you will fall off a cliff face this is climable!

as for your comments about your definition of onsite, are you seriously sugesting that if you resurch a climb it can no longer be onsite??? does this include reading a route book? surely you will gain far more information from a route guide than off this post i mean how many people have suggested this?

In reply to djviper: I think your abilities are been doubted becasue not many people manage to climb E8 without noticing the grade or route they are on- but iIgnore them- you'll be fine- all the IF needs is someone stubon enough to keep going. Just remember if you get stuck go a little higher and it is bound to get easier.

brilliant thread!!- i feel we are back to the great days of RT







Ps (in case you try this and die- i didn't mean it ok?)

In reply to djviper: go for it, dont listen to the negative unadventurous UKC posters, they are just too scared to try it themselves

In reply to djviper:
yes, but I wanted to make it one step easier for you to read it.

In reply to al siddons: thank you for your thoughfull concern mate

i have to say im kinda supprised at the responce generated by someone claiming that they will complete a climb when they feel there ready!

In reply to Anonymous:

I'm very in awe of the Indian Face climb as described by Johnny. And well done to Mr Viper for demonstrating such keen ambition.

Can anybody shed some light on why 2mm perlon was used for some runners (in Johnnys write up) when stronger options were available. It seems strange.

Thanks.

In reply to Erik B:
Too f***in right, i prefer to keep my life in return for only doing easier routes than IF

In reply to Graham T: why is it presumed its a death route when noone has died on it?

In reply to Erik B:
Cos very few have tried it, and only then those who have top-roped it first and can do the moves

In reply to Erik B: because of something said by someone most people have never met! (joke)

from what i can tell its due to a lack of usable protection

In reply to Erik B:
Cos only 3 people have climbed it, and all them agree that if they had fallen off the crux, their chances of surviving a 100ft fall onto the boulders and scree would have been fairly slim.

In reply to Alun:

what pessimists.

In reply to Alun: but better climbers may not think its a death route, so people should be encouraged not discouraged to try it. People who have been on the route have the right to make an opinion on its danger, but not UKC posters who havent been on it.

In reply to Erik B:

The people who've been on it are indeed qualified to comment on how dangerous it is. They're agreed that it's dangerous.

Since these are the experts, and the only experts, only a stubborn positivist would require his/her own death as a sufficient minimum standard of proof to back up what the experts already believe.

In reply to al siddons: an ex is a has been and a spurt is a high pressure drip!

In reply to djviper:

Thanks for the witty semantic analysis.

1. Expert: you're a brave man, so you can deal with the extra flak you'll get for saying so.

2. Spurt: no. A spurt isn't a drip. It's more like a jet. An ejaculation, if you will, but not necessarily a tormented one. A high-pressure thing.

To call a spurt a 'drip' is just as wrong as your analysis of the climb you're hell bent on tackling. But please continue to undercut your credibility and to give further life to this top-drawer thread.

In reply to Anonymous: so then mate what would you suggest?? that every one who wants to aspire to do some of the most challenging climbs should just forget it? hmm!

In reply to djviper:

Classic! A drip under pressure maybe?

Mr Viper, do you speak with an accent? I read your posts with a strong Greek twang, they sound even funnier.

In reply to Gfunk: hmm! ive actualy got a kind of cockney accent

In reply to djviper:

If it's okay with you i'll carry on using my Greek accent.

In reply to Gfunk:
Lol! Genius.

In reply to djviper:

Mate I really hope you are joking about any kind of actual climbing on those cliffs because, and I kid you not, I have ridden a mountain bike down them, yes, straight down, and they are basically sand, and not what one would call climbing.

We are talking about the smae wight mouse inn aren't we? On the old roman road between ventnor and freshwater? Near whale bay?

In reply to bomb: bottom section was kinda of a hard chalky substance which had some heinous loose stuff in the last 20 or so foot and there near as dam it vertical

In reply to bomb:

Shht. Don't tell everyone about this undiscovered next bouldering mecca.

In reply to djviper:
In reply to comment on the porno thread .
I'm not sure we're the most knowledgeable collection of climbers in the UK but there are a few serious experts on here.

Would you walk into the Manchester United dressing room and tell them you hoped to score the winning goal in the world cup final although you'd actually only played 5 a side football , didn't know who against and didn't know which position you played because "I don't care , I just go on and kick the ball about " ? More to the point , would you expect them to take you seriously ?

If you were a kid or showed evidence of exceptional talent I hope they would have the good grace to enourage you in your dream .

If were 25 with absolutely no reason the think you would ever graduate from pub football they might politely suggest that you set your sights a litle lower and build them up later if things worked out .Alternatively they might just have a good giigle .

In reply to Postmanpat: at the end of the day thats your view mate

In reply to djviper:


well observed. He might have a point though...?

In reply to CJD: im 25 people are still climbing in there 50+60's ive got a lot of time!

In reply to djviper:

indeed.

In reply to Anonymous:

No...that would be Middlefell Buttress which still hasn't seen an un-aided ascent by a Latvian dwarf called Simon.

I await news of Simon's advances with keen anticipation.

In reply to djviper:

djviper: remember - procrastination is the thief of time.
don't let someone get in there before you.

Oh, but there's also a Spanish proverb: morning is wiser than evening, meaning you should sleep on things instead of acting in the heat of the moment.

It's tantalising. Do it now, or wait? which will it be, djviper?

In reply to al siddons: as said before mate i no im not ready to do it now but at one point i will atempt to climb IF

In reply to djviper:
This thread has been brilliant.
When (and indeed if) you go for it on Indian Face, I wish you the very best of luck - I fear you will need it in excess. I trust that even if you lack the willingness to back down on something as inconsequential as a message forum you will be blessed with the sense to perhaps follow the path of discretion when faced with the actuality of a problem beyond your capabilities (should that prove to be the case).

I remain as ever etc etc

Keeg

In reply to djviper:

Will you be attempting said face in Ski boots, it should not me too difficult in them, as i know a guide who regularily climbs 6a with them.

So you are not too tired on the walk in use burpers, ( sound stout fellows and very loyal!) to carry provisions you wanna be fresh for the onsight.

The best of luck with your endeavors.

In reply to Dru: ha ha ha ha funny!

In reply to Anonymous:

Dear DJViper - this has been a great thread reminiscent of the "good old days" of RT.

A genuine offer and suggestion now. If you are serious about on sighting IF at some time in the future, as a mountain instructor I will offer to teach you all you need to know about ropework and placing protection etc, IF one of the high grade technical climbers on this forum matches my offer by promising to do performance coaching with you to take you to the required perfomance grade. I am also going to phone Johnny Dawes today and tell him about this thread and see if I can get him to contribute.

For your part , I would like to see you do some kind of ongoing blog/thread here on RT to entertain the masses who I am sure would all be rooting for an unknown to rise through the ranks and be the first to onsite IF.

I must make it clear that I can only be responsible for teaching you sound ropework and protection skills and could not be held responsible for your injury or death.

This isn't a wind up , but rather a social experiment along the "Eliza Doolittle" lines if you like.

Are you up for the challenge and your shot at immortality Mr DJViper???

Yours

David

In reply to David Hooper: as im not a complete fool and if you are serious i would most definatly take you up on this because despite peoples thoughts i have become rather attached to my life!
and as for your responsability for my life how could i hold you resposable?
thank you again for this kind offer

In reply to djviper: OK I have phoned Johnny Dawes but he is tied up at a race meeting at Brands Hatch at the moment but he is going to check the thread later.

We will need to find someone to do performance coaching with you and you must be prepared to serialse your exploits here on RT..........if thats all OK then weve got a plan.

Are you OK with that?

David

In reply to David Hooper: Im now gonna ph the late great JCT who is heavily into her writing at the moment and see if I can get her to write this all up if it comes off......

Ahhh the golden days of RT could return..........

In reply to David Hooper: thats fine with me mate any training or advice from anyone is allways welcome
i also have no problem with having a blog on here kept up to date with progress reports

In reply to Anonymous:

<It was Terry Taylor and/or someone else who fell off Pinnacle Flake>

Belatedly (it may have been covered elsewhere on this Mother of All Threads):

It was TT. Unfortunately his second, Greg Lyne, was pulled off with him but he didn't make it.

In reply to djviper:

You're a star. Go for it, djviper. Your life is about to change forever. There could be a book, a film -- who knows where this could end?

Only one thing: what if someone beats you to it? All that effort, down the pan. Could you bear the heartache?

In reply to al siddons: mate im not doing it for that reasn and realy dont care about any books and films for the like, if i wanted that i would of been an actor or the like!
im doing it for the climb and,to prove to myself i can no other reason!
If some one does it first which they probably will they get my fullest congratulations!

In reply to djviper:

good thinking. if you do it, you'll be able to have a second career as a mind-coach for climbers. not that you're thinking about these lucrative spin-offs.

It's great that this thread has a guaranteed future. it's going to hit the 500 club before we know it.

In reply to djviper:

Now that you are well and truly on the road to dawes-esque stardom, I hope you remember that despite all the cynics and non believers on this forum, who never gave you a chance, there were a few of us who believed in you from the start.

In reply to Anonymous: Well is one of you superstars out there gonna offer to performance coach our djviper or what???

In reply to David Hooper:

I would love to but E3 isn't going to get him up indian face.

In reply to bomb: Hey its a start Bomb - its looks like hes only scrambling at the moment - although his stated wall grade looks like a start.

In reply to David Hooper:

Yup Latin sports grade 44 is definitely a guid stert!

In reply to djviper: can you onsight every v6 or v7 boulder prob you try if not i would get some training in before your mum and dad bury you.

In reply to Anonymous: pont one log on mate if you wna to comment let us know who you are
point 2 read the thread where i have been offered training and have graciously accepted


bad troll F- must try harder!!

In reply to djviper: I thought your trolling was good, B = potential for long term and sucessful bridge dwelling career

In reply to MattG: ooo do i get a gold star??

In reply to djviper:
It a sunny day out mate, and I'm taking a break from the gardening. Get yourself out there and get some training done, sieze the day!

In reply to Ridge: if i wasnt at work mate i would already be out! off to the wall after work though to consolidate my self at missing all the good weather

In reply to djviper:
will you be doing the indian face before august? i'd like to come and watch and was thinking if you'd tie it in at the same time as my climbing holiday in wales (last week of july) that would be grand.

thanks

In reply to djviper: it was me,i know what im talking about,you need more than training to climb I.F.you either have it or you dont.i know for deffo which catagory you wil fall into.
ive done some scarey shit,but would never even dream of trying to do what you think you are capable of.

go back to your scrambling up mountains as someone else said.
i think you are a troll anyway

In reply to moonboy: not a hope in hell before august

In reply to mark s: you know for defo which catogry i will fall into ?? i find this hard to belive based on comments made on an internet forum

if you think i am a troll this is your opionion, but there are some rather respected people who will remain nameless who would seam to disagree with your point, and do belive that the removal of the "Elistist" attitude would help progress the sport no end

In reply to djviper: Jesus mate, OK my spelling is not great, but yours is truly poor.

OK just go and climb it when your ready, I think you are all hot air, only way is to do it and prove us all wrong.

In reply to moonboy:
LOL. I trust you're takin the piss!

In reply to Iain Ridgway: a lot of people think the same as your self and to be honest im kinda getting use to it now!

In reply to moonboy: you are joking i hope
have a look at his rockfax posts

In reply to djviper:
ok, i've taken it back. sounds like a nervy climber to me though

In reply to moonboy: i donbt know mate i cant tell from an internet forum

In reply to djviper:
so viper, to answer the OP. will your onsight on IF be the gratest UK trad ascent ever? i think it will so i hope you're feeling proud of yourself!

In reply to moonboy: it cant be the greatest if its already done! and there have been far more important accents in this country than this one!

In reply to djviper:
it's not been onsighted yet though!! what do you consider to me more important than the OS of IF then?

In reply to Anonymous: i've had another thought. people sometimes rename climbs after the first onsight. will you be renaming IF after the onsight?

In reply to moonboy: any of the early pioneering climb
anything we do today is in my opionion uncompareable with those accents,think of the gear they were completed with! far more important than this climb as this climb is unlikely to shape the sport in the way the early stuff has

In reply to Anonymous: if i do it (BIG IF) no i wouldnt and would hope that any else that beats me to it wouldnt

In reply to djviper:

BIG IF? mate that doesn't sound very positive! i can't imagine you'll onsight the indian face unless you start believing in yourself. maybe you should add self assertiveness classes into your training schedule?

hint: shouting 'i am jhonny dawes! i am on top rope!" at the top of your voice could be the key to onsighting the indian dace!

In reply to moonboy: ha ha ha h afunny man no please stop it hurts

In reply to djviper:
well it works for sebb so why not you?

In reply to moonboy: i was laughing at your comment about me beliving in my self have you read the thread?

In reply to djviper:
are you a real dj by the way? maybe not you could not only os the if, but do it whilst also carrying a mixer and a couple of decks, scratchin away to some trip hop. Id pay to see that mate!

In reply to Smelly Fox: yea i could srtap a couple of speakers to my back oh i tell you what shall i sove a broom up my arse and clean it whilst i climb?

In reply to Smelly Fox: oh and yes im a real dj

In reply to djviper:

the broom would not be part of a standard climbing rack and would probably lower the grade, wether it was shoved up your arse or note.........

In reply to moonboy: i cold use a toothbrush and wiggle my arse more??

In reply to djviper:
What ever floats your boat mate. Might save you some ebarassment on the crux if you plug your arse with something, a broom might not be too comfy tho. Speaking of putting things on your back, what do you think about strapping a mattress on your back when you go for it? Might save you serious injury if you bollox it up. Or a small parachute maybe. Wonder what the ethics police would make of that!

In reply to Smelly Fox: i can just see the rite up protection used - air force issue parachute and large arse pillow! lol

In reply to djviper:
And large butt plug.

In reply to Smelly Fox: hmm or not ;~)

In reply to Smelly Fox:

dude, your website is top quality. who designed it? it is completely off the wall. I love it. is that song a cover or are these new lyrics?

In reply to al siddons: i think its the rathergood.com team. Theres some other good shit on there website man... you have to filter through the shite tho. The adventures of blode are pretty good!

In reply to Smelly Fox: another good one for that kinda stuff is nearlygood.com

i love the one in audio files where a "garage" calls a woman up about here car absolute classic!

In reply to djviper:

Back to the original subject: IF. When does the training start?

In reply to al siddons: ive already increced my indoor work and am waiting to sort out dates with people

In reply to djviper: I have just got back from a days climbing - have u been climbing today DJViper - cos you should have been!!!!

As soon as some kind soul offers to do the performance training with you then we have a plan and I will sort out a leading rock course for you.

Sooner rather than later I hope cos you have a lot of mileage to get in.

BTW where do you DJ...............and pleased ont say in your bedroom

In reply to David Hooper: i wish pissin working! but im off on tuesday so will be down the indoor for a couple of hours
indeed mate and thanks once again for helping me with this

at the moment no where i did play out a lot but im turning more to music production

In reply to djviper:

er, rather more gear than you're going to get when you do Indian Face...

In reply to Simon Caldwell: muppet!
they had gear that was probably more of a hinderance than a help!
and remember ill be doing it in stickies not hob nails!

In reply to djviper:
Dawes did Indian Face in hobnails ? Good effort !

In reply to Postmanpat: read the post engadge brain then comment!

In reply to djviper:
Oi you ,get down the gym !

In reply to Postmanpat: i will be most of tomorow as im off, any one good at packed lunches lol

In reply to djviper:

Hmmm, interesting thread this one. Fair play to you for having such confidence I really do hope you succeed.
Though the Darwin Awards do spring to mind...

In reply to Anonymous:

is that you jhonny? you going to lend the boy a hand?

In reply to Anonymous: mate ive got the will to sucseed i just hope that someone takes dave,s theory and takes us up on it

In reply to Anonymous:

No, it was me.
And no I won't be lending him a hand, I get scared on Severe terrain, so if think any help I could offer wouldn't be worth having! Unfortunatly I don't get out climbing all too often, so am consequently fairly rubbish.

Good luck to Mr Djviper, you are obviously far far braver than I.

Regards

Keith

In reply to KeithWakeley: i dont think brave is the right word!
i can think of a few others.
all it will take to shut him up is to stand underneath it and look up.
as ive already said i climb with alot of very good climbers and they wouldnt even consider it.
theres nothing wrong with goals but they should be do able
i want to shag kirsty gallagher but it aint goin to happen so i will shut up about it.

In reply to moonboy:

care to explain why im a nervy climber?

In reply to djviper:

Entertaining thread.

Seriously though, if memory serves, the route was graded prior to the permanent loss of a vital hold.

In reply to Anonymous: Put my money on Dave Birkett, probably got the most E8 & E9s to his name and can consistiantly climb F8a equivalent trad routes in nasty positions. Would be great to see some nutter go for it tho'.

In reply to Paul R: what about Si O'Connor?

In reply to sloper: What.. who?