UKC Forums - Harpur Hill Lower Tier route confusion

Harpur Hill Lower Tier route confusion

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TobyA 08 May 2022

Great day at Harpur yesterday getting in some mileage on plenty of routes and showing a couple of folk around the quarry for the first time. But when we did some of the routes towards the left end of Lower Tier we got a bit confused about which lines we were doing. Back home looking at Gary Gibson's site, the UKC logbooks and at the app topo I think I can see the confusion.

The relevant section of the logbooks is https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/harpur_hill_quarry-956/#the_lower_... and of Gary's website https://www.sportclimbs.uk/peak/buxton/harpur-hill/hh-anarchy-sector/ I screenshot that section from app below. The routes are mainly recent additions by Mr Gibson, so I presumed Gary's topo is the definitive. Looking between Sport Climbs and the Rockfax topo, Rockfax is missing a line in this section, Gary has 8 lines while Rockfax has only 7. We originally thought that there were two new "mystery" routes right of the ones shown on Rockfax but actually I think there is just one. So the the line completely missing from Rockfax is Bedrock Paradox (5b) (we actually thought it was more like 4 or 4+ and has very friendly bolting compared to elsewhere at HH, so good for newbies). This means the last line shown on Rockfax (claimed as Bedrock Paradox) is actually Anarchy in the UK (5c) (again really friendly bolting and I reckon more like 4+ than 5+).

This would mean all the other routes in that section on Rockfax should be moved 1 route to the right to fit Gary's topo. This makes sense in other ways, the first route we did in that section was what Rockfax marks as Mine Anarchy (5c). I onsighted it but it felt really tenuous and I was pleased not to slip off at a few points. Logbook voting has most people thinking 6a or even 6a+, which makes sense as on Sport Climbs, the topo shows that this line is actually Truculent Anarchist - which Gary gives 6a. The route that Rockfax is calling Truculent Anarchist 6a+ is Anachronism 5+ on Gary's topo. I didn't try that one yesterday (because I thought it would be a tricky 6a+!), but the logbooks suggest people saying it's quite easy, so that makes sense too.

Hope that makes some sense to others who have climbed some of those routes!

We think this is Bedrock Paradox (not marked on the RF app currently)

OP TobyA 08 May 2022

In reply to TobyA:

Just to further confuse things, Gary's little printed topo to Harpur Hill from last year agrees with Rockfax, not with his own website!

Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 09 May 2022

In reply to TobyA:

I will try and check these out in the coming weeks, thanks for the feedback,

Chris

Mike Stretford 15 May 2022

In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby, pretty sure it was you I was asking about this yesterday.... you pointed me at the correct line of 'Only Ken's Anarchy will do'. Did the first four routes to the right of the corner, and I would suggest the following (inline with what you say above):

Is Anachronism/Truculent Anarchist? 5c

Mine Anarchy 6a

Only Ken's Anarchy will do 6b+ (agree with the logbook consensus)

Always Break the Rules 5c

Cheers

Mike

OP TobyA 15 May 2022

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Hi Mike, yep that was me. Nice to meet you. 🙂

Joe was starting up the first route right of the corner but there was a jackdaw going into the corner crack just at that time so we figured there might be a nest there, so we left that for another day, but interesting you agree with Gary's grade for that, not the Rockfax 6a+. The next route Rockfax says is Mine Anarchy- I agree with you, 6a seems more like it rather than 5c in Rockfax.

Well done on getting up Ken's Anarchy! Sounds like a tough one.

Christheclimber 15 May 2022

In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby, in my notes I have noted Truculent Anarchist as 6a, Mine Anarchy as good 6a and Only Ken's Anarchy Will Do as definitely 6b+.

johncook 15 May 2022

In reply to TobyA:

I believe Gary is doing an update on his site to clear up the confusion in this area. I am sure I heard it will be done over the next few days. No doubt Gary will either correct me if I am wrong or put a note on here if otherwise. H

OP TobyA 16 May 2022

In reply to Christheclimber and Mike:

Thanks for your feedback guys.

When I was there on Saturday, I did the first route in the bay left of where we've been talking about - that Rockfax has as "Is Anachronism" (see https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=387079 ) while oddly the UKC logbooks call it just Anachronism (5c). 5c is about right for that, although I thought I might actually be a touch easier than that - but there or there abouts.

Then it seems like Gary's paper guide and Rockfax may be right, and Gary's website topo wrong - the first route in the bay we are talking about is Truculent Anarchist (6a+) but from what you guys are saying it's more likely to be 6a or even hard 5c than 6a+, as RF currently says.

Then we have (going right) Mine Anarchy (5c) but that's probably 6a rather than 5c - I'd vote for that! Then Only Ken's Anarchy Will Do (6b) but probably 6b+ or even 6c. Next rightwards you have the two 5cs that share the one lower off, and the printed topo and RF agree are Always Break the Rules (5c) and Snap Decision (5c) - I did Snap Decision for the first time on Saturday, and Joe onsighted ABTR (I did it a couple of years ago), and we both thought those grades were right. Then we have route 13 on RF or route 11 on https://www.sportclimbs.uk/peak/buxton/harpur-hill/hh-anarchy-sector/ RF says this is Anarchy in the UK (5c) which Gary's paper guide agrees with. We did this on Saturday and both thought the first third of the route was technical and hard - 6a not 5c. Above the first three bolts it eases up a lot, but the first bit is tricky and tenuous even for 6a.

To the left again there is only one more line on the RF topo, that they think is Bedrock Paradox (5b), but there are two lines of bolts here and both are shown on Gary's topos (printed and web). The lines there aren't quite in the right place on the printed Harpur Hill topo, but they are on Gary's website. I think they are both straightforward - probably 4+ or 5a? They are also the two routes with the very friendly bolting. Gary's website says these two friendly easier routes are Bedrock Paradox and Anarchy in the UK - but then his names and grades for all the other routes seem to be have been shifted 1 leftwards, hence what we think is Truculent Anarchist getting called Anachronism on his web topo.

UKC logbooks and the web topo both mention a mystery route UK Subs (6a). We did wonder if UK Subs is actually the route 13 on RockFax (currently Anarchy in the UK). The 6a fits with what we found climbing that line. Then the two easier lines on right would be Anarchy in the UK and Bedrock Paradox? 5c and 5b seem too hard for what those routes felt like to me, but maybe I was just having a good day - but still the grades fit the "routes on the ground" better than any others. If that was the case, then all the line left from there all seem to have the right-ish grades and descriptions in Rockfax.

Joe also hopes we did UK Subs last weekend because he said when he was a youth, his band was the support act for UK Subs on a couple of occasions - rock and roll synchronicity!

Post edited at 18:48