UKC

Hello

Anybody had experience of dealing with a degenerative meniscus.

How you managed it and whether you still climbed.

Regards

Dave

As far as I understand, that's a type of osteoarthritis. I've got that in both knees. The interesting thing is that I had it diagnosed via MRI scans 11 years ago. I was 49 at the time and my doctor was 59 and he had a similar condition. He seemed very happy to tell me he had got 10 more years out of his knees than I had! I kept getting fluid on the knee every 3 or 4 weeks after spending a day on the fells every week. I had to take a few weeks off the fells every time. Then I started taking glucosamine sulphate with chondroitin and calcium. After about a month of taking the tablet my problems stopped and haven't returned. I'm 61 next month and my knees are fine. It's worth a try, as my cartilage was so thin way back then that I was told that fellwalking would soon be out of the question. Just buy a jar from Savers or Poundstretcher. Cheap as chips and you've nothing to lose. I hope this helps.

Very timely post. I have just come off 4 months of physio and am starting to ride my bike again. Going climbing with my daughter later this week, so will let you know. Doesn't really feel like there is enough bend in it, but we'll see!

I might give the glucosamine a try, like Groak suggests

Just make sure it's glucosamine with chondroitin and calcium. I forgot to say I originally tried glucosamine on its own and it didn't work as well. I'm spreading the news, as i firmly believe it's made a massive difference. How else would i have gone 10 more years with no further problems? I wish you both all the very best for the future with your knees.

Had mine removed around 20 years ago, after completely destroying them. Took glucosamine for a while but never seemed to make much difference. Still cycling, skateboarding, kitesurfing and occasionally climbing in mid 50's.

Joints will re model. Slow rehab is the key. There is no evidence for glucosamine or any other supplements. Save your money and climb what you can. 
Speaking personally, my knee took a few years to get back to relatively normal function but o never stopped climbing ( initially with a knee brace). . 
good luck. 

Is glucosamine not also indicated in dupytrens?

It could be one of those things that "on average" does nothing, while some people report great results and some get dupytrens? 

Out of curiousity - do you use walking poles? 

I've used them for years to reduce the wear and tear on joints, particularly if carrying a heavy trad sack, and have never had knee problems (although I do have back problems). 

I often hear friends saying they're "not old enough for poles" or are "holding out until they need them" but i wonder if there is evidence that used proactively when in your 30's they remove future knee problems in later years? 

Near twenty years for me.

Rest, physio and continue exercise. I did have a meniscus trim, but I gather this wouldn’t now be done with change of thinking in recent years.

As Allovesclimbin mentions, slow rehab. Patience is required! I’ve had two cycles of knee problems and each has taken some 3 yrs to settle to a new norm. I never really stopped doing some form of exercise, but significantly adjusted what level and how frequent I did it. I still climb, but less and at a much lower level (have been on consultant list for knee replacements for 3 yrs, but still think that is some time off yet by continuing exercising).

LOADS OF POSTS ON HERE ABOIUT KNEE PROBLEMS,WELL WORTH A LOOK

As a physio my thoughts on them are mixed.

If they keep you going when you otherwise couldn't then all good.

If you use them to offload prior to issues then you are offloading your joints and muscles. They will get weaker as they are not getting the same stimulus.

For hiking they change loading/movement a lot. For running less so.

My partner and I have used poles since 1997. Usually carrying pretty big loads by UK standards.

Almost 30 years later one of us has pretty debilitating knee issues, and the other, pretty painful knees on big descents.

(I'm resting today after two 1600-1700m ascents/descents over 3 days.)

We both now manage our knees (as best we can) by no longer using poles on descents.

I think 30 years of pole use on descents has meant the supporting muscles were not engaged properly, and the forces of every downward step have slammed into the joints.

When your knees are knackered, you can really feel the different dynamics when using or not using poles, even for a single downward step.

With poles, your legs feel stiff and jarring. Without, they feel fluid.

We can't wear mountain boots anymore, only soft shoes, and stay slightly flexed and stepping down onto the ball of the foot.  Like barefoot running, I imagine. I call it trotting down hills.

So, yeah, poles have enabled us to power up and down hills, but most probably at the expense of our poor knees.

I used to swear by them (people would joke that I was a Leki rep), now I am more cautious.

Of course there are many ways of doing anything, and we have probably just been a bit too reliant on the poles.

Best of health to everyone's knees

n=1

The rigorously assessed evidence for glucosamine is extremely unfavourable.

Association is not causation.  Taking glucosamine and a knee improving does not mean glucosamine caused the knee to improve.

No. Read the evidence . 
You’re better off saving your money for Totem Cams. 

However...

Pain is not very well understood, although that's improving. 

But what seems to be more and more accepted is that pain is more a mind-body problem, than certain ancient Greeks would like us (and much of western medicine) to believe.

So if you feel that doing a particular "something" seems to help your pain, then that is a great thing. As long as it doesn't destroy the rest of your life, or other people's.

It is your body; your mind; and your pain -- that nobody else can ever experience.

Good post!  The-mind body problem.....we could open up a huuuuge new thread on this fascinating topic!  I had to write an essay on it once in the early 90s and it still haunts me!

Well yes. The basis of the placebo affect. And yes it’s a whole emerging field , absolutely we have masses to learn about this. However, I think the OP was concerned with rate of tissue healing and return to normal function which is a different issue. 

I understand that biomechanics is complex, but I would tend to attribute the knee problems to the heavy loads. The anecdotal evidence I've heard is that backpacking is problematic in the long term.