UKC

Is there anything wrong in just enjoying the long easy Mountain routes up to V Diff in your mountain boots?
Lots of people now seem to be driven by grades....

In reply to Gav Parker:

Nope

In reply to Gav Parker:

No. Routes you know you can breeze up; you enjoy them for the ease of climbing, the moves, the view, the company.

In reply to Gav Parker:

I bloody love east mountain routes. Having a girlfriend that doesn't climb often, doesn't care about grades and just wants a good day out is a good excuse to go do them.

In reply to Gav Parker:

Yes!

Having fun indeed.

No chance.

In reply to Gav Parker:

Yup

In reply to Gav Parker:


No, and up to any grade you can manage is fine. I've done plenty of HVSs in bendy mountain boots, it's a good exercise in careful footwork and also comfortable and warm on stances and when you come down.

In reply to Gav Parker:

Not at all but I've always chosen to climb most 'mountain' routes in rockboots!

In reply to Gav Parker:

I use stiffer boots in the mountains so find routes significantly more fun in rock shoes personally. People driven by grades alone are quite rare I think...

In reply to Gav Parker:

These types of outings are my idea of mountain heaven. I'm also driven by grades.... easy ones.

In reply to Gav Parker:

Loads of people do this.

But it isn't the same game as climbing hard, which is a more intense experience. It's a bit demeaning to say "driven by grades" when you're talking about the vast majority of climbing which is done for the challenge to the individual (which might be at VS, E2, E5 or E10). I think my experience is common - the harder the routes, the better they are, the better experience they've been, the more memorable, the more rewarding. Climbing just gets better the better you get at it - more, better routes open up: you look up at the biggest, most impressive, steepest crags and decide: yes, I'm doing that route today. And you have all the anxiety and trepidation of that decision to overcome. You don't get this from staying within your comfort zone.

Fundamentally, it's not the numbers that drive people to climb hard, it's the experience of climbing hard. I'm not saying that *you* should do that, but it might be helpful to understand better why most climbers do.

In reply to Gav Parker:
Nothing wrong at all.

It's lovely very often.

There is also nothing wrong with challenging yourself with challenging leads on single/multipitch. In fact, as long as you are not damaging the rock, you're safe and being honest about the climbs, it's hard to think about climbing in a "wrong" way.

Hope you have lovely days on the mountain!

In reply to Gav Parker:

A rhetorical question - because of course it's not wrong. But, saying that, I do think that, if you go down a bunch of grades, routes that seem "easy" can sometimes be a bit disappointing...

I enjoy being there, sharing a climb with my girlfriend who rarely climbs, watching the hawks buzzing crows in the trees below. But, if the climbing feels like a path, I often feel the need for some personal mental challenge - e.g. climbing very smoothly, moving quickly and efficiently, appearing confident and certain about objectives and rope systems rather than faffing and hesitating, and taking good care of my partner - e.g. carrying the ropes and the rack up the hill; carrying the sack and my shoes up the climb; not placing any poor gear and not placing unnecessary gear; making sure they're comfortable throughout, etc...

I've also found that the challenge and experience of covering lots of ground in a day is great. With a friend I climbed Sub-Cneifion Rib, Tennis Shoe, Lazarus, Groove Above and Central Arete, before heading down to have a go at a line up Milestone Buttress (first pitch of the Super Direct into the Direct). That was one of the best days of climbing I've ever had, for sure - a beautiful place, good lines, and lots and lots of climbing. Happy and knackered by the time we got to the Vaynol Arms!

In reply to Gav Parker:

No. The scenery and the walk with a relatively light rucksack make for a great day out. Also, as someone who's never come across a pair of rock shoes that weren't excruciating after half an hour, I love climbing in boots.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

This is true, but the technical difficulty of the climb is only one way of challenging yourself. There are many other things that can make a route challenging such as length, route finding, conditions, the nature of the location (for example climbing in remote or exotic locations)

For example a couple of my most memorable routes are the Cuillin ridge in a day and the traverse of Jebel Rum in Jordan, neither of which are particularly hard climbing.

Also whilst I do quite enjoy having some aspect of challenge to my climbing I think its also perfectly OK to just enjoy cruising up easy stuff and having a relaxing day out.

Climbing is a broad and varied sport, which people do for all sorts of different motivations and that's one of the things I love about it!

In reply to Andy Long:

I love big rambly mountain routes and link-ups, but I've never really got the thing for climbing them in big boots, unless you're specifically in training for the alps or something. I'd rather wear light approach shoes for the walk-in and comfortable stickies for the climbing, and have a wider range of climbs that I can do in my comfort zone as a result.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thanks to all for the discussion!

Yes understand where you coming from Jon....

In reply to C Witter:


Sounds like a great day out, what a shame it had to end in disappointment!

In reply to C Witter:



Wow! Did you then go back over to Llanberis after all that? That's a pretty full day, and you certainly earned your pint in the Vaynol!

In reply to Gav Parker:

No indeed. Nothing at all.

It's the kind of route and the kind of day I like best, though I do wear rock shoes. As long as the rock isn't loose the only other criterion is that the route has a sunny perch for lunch. Other than personal satisfaction, the only real benefit to climbing harder was that it opened up more routes for me.

I stopped climbing for over a decade because everywhere I went, climbers seemed more motivated by numbers and letters than by a day's pleasure. I confess that during those fifteen years I'd pretty well forgotten why I stopped.

Maybe it's just a new unfamiliarity (this year's the first in all that time that I've pulled out my ankle-high Asolo Canyons) but now everybody seems a lot more accepting of differences in motivation as well as ability: this time around I don't feel as though I'm regarded as inferior for never having climbed harder than a mild VS. Perhaps it was only ever me...

In reply to Gav Parker:

I don't get out enough to push grades. Long easy mountain routes are what I love most. Just as well really!!

In reply to Trangia:

We went to the pass the next day for Direct Route and the top two pitches of The Cracks on Dinas Mot; but, it was very windy, so we then went back to Ogwen for a go at Monolith Crack - which was a hell of a struggle. We had to ab off because I couldn't squeeze my ass into the chimney of the third pitch. Defeated by a Welsh severe... Somewhere there is a video of me swearing my way up it, but my climbing partner hasn't dared to show it to me yet...

In reply to Gav Parker:
Certainly not. A great place to go for this is Ennerdale, maybe stop at Black Sail YHA, but you need to know the right people.

Also remember that people who do climb harder at whatever grade, should not "have" to do easier routes, this is why getting the right partner is so essential. I have partners for big V Diffvmountain days, hard (for me) single pitch, Big Mountain VS/HVS , etc. I think of it as a bit like golf (not that I play) and selecting the correct bat, I try and chose the correct partner for the route WE BOTH want to do on that weekend.

In reply to J1234:

Thanks Steve I totally agree....

And perhaps the Black Sail YHA would be an ideal place to stop for a weekend in the future...

Cheers Gav

In reply to Gav Parker:

Definitely not. Makes for a great day out.

In reply to Gav Parker:

That's how easy mountain routes were done in many cases! Climbing in boots is a mountaineering skill. As for extra wear and tear on the routes I think dry tooling /winter ascents would be far more damaging.