UKC

Curious how people log extensions or link-up routes, if you've already done the route being extended, or part of the linkup. And yes, I'm aware nobody cares if you're not sponsored and climbing 9b, just curious what the ethics consensus is among regular folk.

Example 1:

• Route A: 20m at 7a : sent in a few tries -> redpoint
• Route B: a 10m extension to Route A, at 7a+ :  sent first go without beta for the 10m -> onsight? repeat? redpoint?

Example 2:

• Route A: 15m at 6a : onsight
• Route B: a 20m extension to Route A, at 7b : sent first go -> onsight? 
   

Would your ethics change if the grade disparity increases, or ratio between the routes changes?


Personally, I'm logging the style of the harder part, regardless of whether I've done the easier part. So I'd take onsight for both examples. 

Na, those are redpoints mate. If you wanted to O/S the harder grade you should have gone for the extensions first time up. It could be argued the it was only your prior knowledge of the lower section that allowed you to climb efficiently enough to have enough juice in the tank to get the top section first time on it.

In saying that, log as you like, no one cares.

Example 2 is easy - in the real world a 6a is going to make bugger all difference to success or failure on the 7b, so take the onsight.

Example 1, hmmm definitely not an onsight. About the best you could say is you'd flashed the upper section (flash = first go).

just write what you did? flash is very broad, it just means you had info. id log it as a flash and write 'previously done the 7a, onsighted the extension'.... ultimately no one cares but yourself (is how i generally see things!)

your example is not great because if youre onsighting 7b, the 6a bit is totally irrelevant. its making no difference to the climbing whether or not youve done it before... if it was two different 'hard' extensions out of a 6a (like you may get in kalymnos?), i would log them as both onsight...

I’d expect that was precisely the point the OP was making with that example. Still, it’s a shame to spoil a 7b o/s by separately doing the irrelevant 6a first.

Could be the 6a onsight was a few years prior, when your limit was 6a.

What if the first part of example 2 was only 5a (that you did a few years back, when weaker). Would you still take only RP for the the harder send?

Like surely there's a threshold where the easier part is completely immaterial. 

Yes. On the basis that prior attempts of part of a climb invalidated an o/s.

Full disclosure. A lot of things that I’ve recorded as o/s should properly be considered flashes due to various infringements. You and the OP are welcome to record such climbs as you see fit. If you are asking what is the letter of the unwritten rules then it’s more black and white than the infringements we allow ourselves.

Perhaps we need a new category: “more or less o/s”

For example 1 it's easy. If you couldn't onsight the bottom section then you wouldn't have been able to onsight the whole thing, so it's got to be redpoint. Maybe if you didn't do them the same trip and couldn't remember the beta for the bottom section you could justify it, but if you do them in a short space of time then the challenge is not comparable to onsighting a 'normal' 7a+.

Example 2, IMO it's not taking the piss to claim this as an onsight. Yes there's a threshold where the first section becomes relevant, but I don't think there is a black-and-white answer. You can often sort-of tell anyway - if the 6a was unusually pumpy with no rest at the chain, and you were right at the limit of your endurance on the extension, then you probably wouldn't have onsighted it (though it's hard to imagine a 6a this pumpy). If instead of a pumpy 6a it was a slabby technical 6c with a sit-down rest at the chain, followed by a steep extension on juggy tufas, it may not have made a difference. If you're being strict you probably can't claim OS in either case, but I wouldn't give my partner, or myself, a hard time if they tried to.

As others have said, noone really cares, and you just have to be honest with yourself about what you did and why you care. If it's for bragging rights, do what you want but don't let anyone find out how the sausages are made! If you want to onsight 7a+ because you view it is an intermediate goal to doing Right Wall (for example, I have no idea of the sport grade of RW), then you're kidding yourself if you do example 1 and consider it ticked

Consult the oracle: https://darth-grader.net/Calculator

Example 1: 7a + 6b to 6c+ (depends on the rest between the two parts) = 7a+. The 7a first part is harder than the extension in isolation so knowledge of the first part clearly makes the route easier. Redpoint. 

Example 2: 6a + 7b = 7b. The 7b grade does not change by adding a 6a to the start even if there is no rest between the two parts. Flash. 

But it does give 7b/b+ if the 6a is hard, with no rest before going into a hard 7b.

Unless the route is in Chulilla and then the crux of the 7b might be the 6a.........

Darth Grader suggests 10 consecutive hard 6as with no rests (hat tip to Fraser) would be 7a+, so probably 7b in Chulilla. Plausible but you might need a 100m rope to lower off safely.

So when do we book our flights then?