UKC

When ever we rock up at a new crag, even with our guide books, we bump into people who talk about all the new routes that have been put up since the guide! Somehow, they are all able to show us printed topos showing the new routes and without exception they tell us they simply downloaded them from UKC. 

Well my eyesight isn't as good as it was but I'll be bu***rd if I can ever find the topos for said crags whenever I look! Am I missing something obvious on UKC like a big red button that says "Topo Downloads even for Dunces" 

I'd really appreciate any help about where to find latest topos please. The most recent needs are lower and second levels of Penmaenbach Quarries and also Penmaenwest Quarries. We have North Wales Limestone and A55 Sport Climbs (2nd ed'n) which have clearly missed masses of new routing! 

Ah, they'll be local topos for local people.

Same issue as you! As far as I'm aware, the only UKC topos for Penmaen Bach are in the photos section for the crags, where the new routes from the lower levels and main slab have been drawn on with yellow lines.

Before I ditched Facebook, there were a few in a group called North Wales New Routes Dump, which might still be going? Not sure how much use it'll be but I remember seeing some in there. 

Wouldn't it be amazing if UKC implemented a 27crags style online topo system. Currently we have this mess of google drive pdfs, websites that people put up and then go offline after a few years, photos on ukc, etc etc. We need everything in one place. 

Most of the stuff on the crags you mention is in the crag photos. Just browse the photos for the crags you are interested in and you will see if there are any.

You seem to have missed out on their business model somewhere...

Many thanks Harold. Other climbers seemed to suggest there was a place on the UKC site where topos are held, I didn't realise it was just in the photos of the crags. Much appreciated, especially having climbed dozens and dozens of your routes ! Thank you. 

I AM local! These are my local crags )

This is pretty much what we are doing with the Rockfax app and there are already 60,000 routes available.

We are happy to accept topos from people and add them to the app. Currently, the upload has to be managed by us but the app does have a revenue system built into it so that we can pay in proportion to app usage. Alternatively, we can also make it free so that even users without subscriptions can view the topos.

I agree that we need one place, let's make that place UKC/Rockfax.

Alan

Would be even better if people in the UK would just embrace 27 crags, save the redundancy 

Not wishing to be critical - but - I took out a subscription to 27 Crags last year, and.....  let's say I was little underwhelmed at the quality and coverage of a lot of areas,

Chris

27Crags have a decent user-contribute system but they have no coverage in the UK hence there isn't any duplication taking place for much of the coverage. Even in non-UK areas their focus is mainly bouldering.

Rockfax - 35,000 routes and problems across the whole country
27Crags - 728 boulder problems in North Wales

Also, they don't have a UKC equivalent. By all means, use them if you want but surely the average user on UKC is better served by supporting UKC and Rockfax?

Alan

But the non - UK coverage is extensive, so if we want all the information in one place they seem to be a step ahead. 41,180 routes and 55,109 boulder problems according to their website - which you can use to look at problems, unlike rockfax. Somewhat more than your quoted 35,000. The maps are also substantially better IMO - gps based nav to boulders which Rockfax doesn’t offer even for whole crags the last time I used it. Yes, the UK coverage of 27 crags is poor - but it’s my go-to on the continent.
 

The rockfax app is good, I’m not trying to talk it down - but if we want all info in one place 27 crags seems to have the lead unless you live in the UK. Myself, I’ve always preferred a definitive guidebook produced locally anyway when I can get it in a language I can read Regardless, the rockfax app is a good one - not saying otherwise!

I've never looked at 27crags before. For France it suggested there were only two climbing areas although the map showed more. But it was still a pretty poor coverage - nothing in the NE where I used to live (Vosges, etc), only Ceuse & Ailefroide near where I now live. Compared to the RockFax it has a very poor coverage, maybe the descriptions are better but from what I can see its not worth a subscription to find out

Rockfax has 60,000 routes if you include the non-UK areas. I suspect if you cut out Sweden and Finland from the 27crags tally it would be a good bit less than this, and a long way if you cut out Fontainbleau. They have bitty sporadic coverage from a few crags dotted all over the place. Our coverage is much better for crags which are significant for UK users.

Don't understand what you mean here.

I must be missing something since I can only see Google maps on 27crags. We have extremely detailed climber-specific drawn maps for everywhere which are geo-located (on iOS, soon on Android) and have been for a couple of years.

27 crags is a good initiative but, for professionally produced topos and climbing information, they aren't close to the volume of data we have.

Alan

You're welcome. The thread may help others to find them as well.

OK this is interesting but I was under the impression that the app was just the guidebooks. Are you saying that someone could upload topos for any crag they wish and make them free or monetise them?

I think this is correct, Alan will be along to clarify - I assume he would want the topos in the Rockfax format. I have added places like Santorini, Mello the Ötztal, Tenerife and random Catalunya crags to the App - all areas that aren't covered by our books,

Chris

As Chris Says, we have an increasing number of app-only areas now. Chris has produced the ones he mentions, Mark Reeves has produced a number of other Spanish areas, there is the whole of Siurana and a load of crags in Cataluyna and significantly updated and expanded coverage for Pembroke.
https://rockfax.com/climbing-guides/category/app-exclusives/

We are also now expanding book areas to cover more in the app - 18 extra full crags and many extra routes on the main areas in the latest Peak Limestone book.

However, what you are asking for is more akin to the work we are doing with the SMC where we are gradually adding their Scottish crags to the app. There aren't yet many examples of crags that have been supplied by local enthusiasts. One is Pandy Quarry (Pen y Fron) which Harold very kindly sorted for us.

So the answer is, yes, we are keen to add local crags from anyone who wishes and we can monetise them. Returns are likely to be small at present and a single crag is probably better done on a one-off payment although it is possible to allocate a commission per crag.

What we don't have yet is a system where people can upload directly. That is on the ToDo list but is a lot of work and won't be around for some time yet. One of my jobs for the next week though is to produce a step-by-step guide for potential authors. It is a relatively easy procedure that just requires a decent crag photo, a version with the topo lines drawn on and a crag and route list properly uploaded to UKC Logbook.

Alan

Looking forward to these developments ... in the end, this might be a move away from ukc to a more generic platform worldwide, with a slightly different business model as well. Just thinking ... we might be in for increasing change from climber-bought to tourism-board sponsored content in many places ... good if the content is still climber-produced.