UKC

I'm hoping someone will be able to help even though abseiling technically falls outside the scope of this forum.

I have been bouldering for about four years now though I have never made the step-up to trad climbing. It is something I'm very interested in doing, however, but I am also very keen to try abseiling. Is it better knowing how to trad climb before learning to abseil? And, if it doesn't matter about learning trad first, where can people recommend lessons in abseiling in the Peak District?

Thanks in advance!

In reply to astraeus:

I've only been to a few of the peak district crags but of the ones i have been to you dont need to be able to abseil to climb there - you can usually walk down from the top.

As for learning how to abseil, I personally watched a few instructor videos on youtube, then found a hill with a tree on it and practised my technique there (the idea being if i mess it up i wouldnt fall and die!).

I try and avoid abseiling if i can as its apparently the most dangerous part of climbing as you can potentially get hit by rocks you may dislodge on the way down, and get knocked out etc.

Not sure about where to get lessons to abseil but as with learning to trad climb, a great place to start would be to join a local climbing/mountaineering club - there will be loads of people with loads of knowledge who im sure would be happy to help you with all aspects of ropework.

In reply to astraeus: I don't think abseiling really counts as a separate thing, it's more a skill that most trad climbers should have so that they can get out of sticky situations. I've never heard of someone 'going abseiling', certainly not a climber anyway, I know outdoors centres run that kind of thing.

If you were to take a trad course I'd be surprised if you weren't also taught how to abseil, it's pretty useful if the second can't get up a route or, for instance, you need to rescue someone. Me and my mate set up an abseil every now and then just to stay sharp should we ever need to abseil in an emergency.

Number one tip: Tie a knot in the end of the rope to prevent abseiling off the end of it. I imagine it would be quite a nasty surprise.

Thanks for the responses guys. I would like specifically to achieve the abseiling skill as I'm very keen on canyoning in the Blue Mountains at the beginning of 2012.

I will investigate what options exist in terms of mountaineering and climbings clubs - I'm sure there must be plenty with the veritable climbing centre that is Stanage Edge. What sort of cost can I expect in getting into trad climbing? And what opportunities does one have to climb as we approach the winter?

In reply to astraeus:

If you find a good club, you can learn all of this stuff for free (including abseiling!)

In reply to astraeus:

Buy a book, read a book, find a belayer, buy the kit, start easy, work up, learn abseiling as you go. As you start climbing more you'll realise that abseiling is generally viewed as a necessary evil and often avoided where possible.

In reply to astraeus: I taught myself. My technique was frankly bloody dangerous, though as I didn't kill myself my technique has improved since

It's a funny subject in the outdoor world. Climbers tend to see it as a means to an end (getting out of trouble or getting to otherwise inaccessible routes) but there are people who see it as a separate activity - a lot of outdoor activity groups do it as a "thrill" activity, even though under those circumstances, it's effectively like being lowered to the ground by an instructor.

If you fancy a grin, there's this old thread - the link to the group is long since dead, but it offers an indirect insight into the views of climbers vs "abseilers"

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=267867

Again, all useful input guys so I very much appreciate you stopping by. It is my first time actually posting on this forum and I must say I am impressed not to have received a single damning criticism on account of my clear lack of knowledge on the subject - I guess we all have to start somewhere.

Bearing in mind what has been said, I've already signed up to climbing lessons at a local indoor wall with a view to developing climbing technique. I am assuming, but please correct me if I am wrong, that abseiling is the mainstay of canyoning?

A very "noobish" question - will my Scarpa bouldering shoes suffice for indoor wall rock climbing?

In reply to astraeus:If you are new to climbing any shoes will do. As for abseiling it is a simple to understand principle if you are at all practical. Once you have been to the wall a few times, I think you will get the picture. A friend of mine and I just found a big bridge to practice from. It's not rocket science, but don't get it wrong!

In reply to astraeus: There is actually a group very similar to a climbing club who just do abseiling in the Peak. Can't remember who they are, but they are a friendly bunch and certainly seemed sensitive to the conflicts of abseiling and climbing. Try a bit of Googling.

In reply to EeeByGum: Thanks for that. I think I am of the inclination that holistic climbing tuition is probably the way forward.

In reply to astraeus: As someone mentioned tie a knot in the end but also back it up, learn systems such as prusiks, or locking off the belay. without these your a mess on the floor. Abseiling is one of the first things i tried out when i got my belay as i had unclimbable high rock faces near by but pleanty of sound anchors, so i see the fascination and its relativity easy to set up.

In reply to Jack Graham:

Number two tip: don't forget to untie this knot before you pull the rope down.

In reply to astraeus:

Don't know much about canyoning, but mainly the skills and judgement required for abseiling are about setting it up; fixed vs retrievable, ethics, when to ab, when to walk. Abseiling itself is mainly about sliding down a rope.

As others say, it's often avoided, most climbing accidents happen going down. I would disagree that it's only used 'to get out of trouble though'. It is a commonly used and sometimes necessary method of descent. I abseiled yesterday purely because there was in situ tat and I didn't want to get my shoes dirty walking down. Sounds lazy, but this is commonplace, depending on the venue.

So it's more a form of transport than an 'activity'. And abseiling in the peak normally only occurs on limestone crags.

In reply to astraeus: Not like this is a good start.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c9b_1308602695