UKC

I bought some crampons on ebay, and they confuse me. I assumed due to the basket around the heel that they would be compatible with B2 boots. However, the toe bail is strange and I can't see this arrangement on the Grivel website.

I would like to know if anyone has seen this set up before and if it's safe to use with my B2 boots (no toe welt).

https://imgur.com/a/HrAtkcI

No, not safe if you don't have a toe welt. They'll fall off.

even with the steel strap? they feel pretty secure to me

Your choice, but they are designed to lock into a welt.

I have a pair of these.....are they older G12's? Good crampons but as the other poster says you need boots with a welt....

I do not think these will be safe.  As Jonathan says they need to lock into the toe welt to be secure.

Just because crampons are B2 compatible does not mean they will fit all B2 boots.  You need to get the correct binding for your particular boots.

This binding is not strange.  G12 crampons (which I assume these are) come in three bindings.  See https://www.grivelgb.co.uk/products/crampons/g12/.  What you have is the cramp-o-matic binding which are incredibly secure on the correct boots (I have that binding on my G14 crampons for waterfall ice).

You need to change the crampons (or boots).  My strong recommendation is to go to a good retailer with your boots and they will ensure you get the correct fitting crampons.

Also, the steel strap is not there to secure the crampons.  The cramp-o-matic is designed to stay on the boot when the front cage is locked into the toe welt.  You actually don't need the strap to secure them - this is just a failsafe in case of a failure of some other part of the crampon so they do not totally fall off.  So just using the steel strap will not secure the crampon - it is just a fail safe.

+1 for not safe without a toe welt. The toe of the boot will be able twist out.

Grivel make a converter bail that you might be able to fit. You should also check you have enough strap length to reach the loop as it will be a further distance than the loop on your current steel strap.

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing-Equipment/Winter-Alpine-Exp...

Your boots will bend and it'll fall off when you need it most.  Or  You'll break the crampon walking on uneven rocky ground.  Either way you'll likely end up stuck somewhere and need rescuing - please don't.

I think it is!

Don't think i've seen before a crampon with basket type attachement at the rear and wire toe bail at the front. Can't see anything like that in Grivel's website either. If i were to guess i'd say somebody mix the fronts and backs from diferent crampons, or we are looking at one of the fabled chinese fakes.

  FWIW I really can't see that staying on even with a toe welt.

+1 to all the other advice you've been given.  With this kind of attachment system they have to fit perfectly on the right type of boot or they can pop off with the kinds of heavy impacts they will get in use.  I know because it happened to me - fortunately without harmful consequences.

You're right.  I was mainly focusing on the front end and didn't see the back end. 

So they are probably more dangerous than I thought.  Looks like cramp-o-matic front end and new-matic back end?  Very odd.

To the OP - I would return these as not fit for purpose.

Yes, it looks like someone has put together the back-end of a crampon with the new classic binding, and the front end has the cramp o matic binding. With that back end it wouldn't even work well if you had a toe welt. The only thing I could imagine is they're a DIY job possibly for ski touring boots, where the walk/ski lever gets in the way of a standard clip-on heel bail.

Those are the g10 crampon not the g12, over the years grivel have done some special binding systems for things like snowboard boots and telemark boots, it might be the strange hybrid is for something like that.

Actually, i just had more of a look at the pics and i'd put my money in that they are fakes, and not just that, they look so badly made as to be dangerous. I'd be surprised if those points last for more than a few hours before bending or snapping off altogether.

If i were you i'd contact Grivel or their UK distributor whoever that is tomorrow to confirm, followed by reporting it to ebay and asking for your money back.

These parts don't look like any made by Grivel though. Holes for bindings in the wrong places, points at diferent locations, of diferent shape and dull looking, obvious flaws in the metal...

Looks like they have 12 points, the G10 has 10.

Hard to tell fully from the photos but my first look at them made me feel uneasy. Looks like it could be a cheap knock off with grivel attachments to make it look genuine, the fact the front and back attachments don't go together tells more of the story.

Thanks all for the opinions. I tried them on my ski boots and they actually fit perfectly.

With the possible exception of the plastic basket (not sure how to judge that) all the parts seem to be genuine and super solid steel, with various quality looking grivel markings. So think someone guessed right with some hybrid job for ski touring.

 That's what you get buying on eBay I guess...

6 at the front 4 at back - I'm not brilliant at maths, but I think that makes 10!

I don't think so - that's how the new classic bindings looked previously - might be 10 years or more old though.

I dug around a bit to try and remember what weird bindings Grivel have come up with for ski boots down the years - these for example https://grivel.com/collections/crampons/products/ski-tour and the wide fitting ones, but on further reflection I reckon I know what happened here - the bloke had some step-in G10s, got B2 boots with out a front welt so couldn't use the step ins, bought a pair of new classic G12s cheap (new classics bindings always seem less popular and get sold on sale). Kept the heel bail of G10s and added it to the front half of the G12s, basically producing a G12 New-matic, stuck the other bits together and flogged them off on ebay hoping to find someone who didn't know much about crampons (sorry tjn26! If it was like I reckon, I think that was very unfair by the seller.).

At first glance there are 8 at the front - but a closer look says there are actually only 6, the second pair from the front seem to be adjacent but they are actually on opposite sides. Maybe depends on your screen resolution

Looking again I'm really not sure how you can see 8! Possibly you need a trip to the opticians Simon! It happens to us all as decrepitude kicks in.

Maybe that's what it is, but what throws me off are things like the front binding running through a hole in the middle of the secondary points, the toe bail doesn't have the hogs tail thingy grivel bindings have, the rear pieces on their crampons all usually have the holes for wire bails which are missing here, then when zooming in you can see some poor machining at the base of the front points, etc. There's just too many oddballs for my liking

It's hard to tell and as you say it could be a host of different variations, which is why i'd contact Grivel to be sure. There's things like this going around https://www.thebmc.co.uk/dangerous-crampons-online and i'm sure i've seen photos somewhere that they are now including the branding in the straps and parts of the crampons to make them look genuine

I reckon they're just old. The toe bail looks like the ones on my mid-90s 2Fs, and my New-matic G12s bought 2001 look different from the slightly more complicated designs that came along later. The bails with curls in them are maybe only 10 years old? It was just a standard curved bar before then.

Woah, we are going way back. Ha, ha. Had a search for the 2f's and they had the curled wire bails by at least 2002 if these are anything to go by http://www.outdoorreview.com/product/product-archives/outdoor-equipment/cli... https://www.summitpost.org/outdoor-gear/2f-crampons/221

Came across this though, so it seems that front sectiomn existed at least for a brief time, in russia https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.trekkinn.com/f/13602/136026352/grivel-g10-cramp-o-matic.jpg&...

Edit: The pic link is actually direct from trekkinn, so they must have had them generally, not just in russia

Unrelated to the crampons, what boots are those?

Just cut a toe welt into your boot. Can't be that hard surely?

that was a joke btw. don't cut your boots

Looks like the front of a pair of step ins clipped to the back of a set of new classic.  Like mix and match crampons ?

https://www.kayland.com/en/shop-en/backpacking/cross-mountain-gtx-anthracit...

I like how this was weighing on your mind for 31 minutes whether I would get it was a joke :p

If the OP could post a link to the eBay listing* then it should be possible to determine whether they would have a case for rejecting the item as "not as described".

Depending on how the item was purchased the OP may be able to return it under the Consumer Contacts Regulations: AIUI it would have to have been bought from a trader, not a private individual, and as a "Buy it Now" rather than an auction (but if what you suggest is actually what happened then that sounds unlikely).

* There's an awful lot of Grivel crampons been sold on eBay in the last few weeks - too many to trawl through.

Those crampons look like a botch up of spare bits to me. You have a crampomatic front section which is designed to go on a B3 boot with a good toe welt. However, to keep it in place on the boot it needs a heel clamp back section as per the Grivel Crampomatic or Newmatic bindings. The back section you have is from a set of New Classic bindings and should have a New Classic front section to match (see: https://www.needlesports.com/Information/Need-Advice/BootCrampon-Compatibil... - scroll down). I suspect someone has mistakenly bought Crampomatic G10s cheap, realised they weren't suitable for B2 boots, got a some New Classic G10s and made themselves a pair of Newmatics (ie step in heel and basket on toe. They then sold you the useless left over bits. Either that or they are a cheap Far Eastern copy put together by someone who hasn't a clue how crampons work. There have been some dodgy crampons appearing on Amazbay recently. The problem with theory 1 is that I don't think Grivel have made Crampomatic G10s for over 10 years. Either way I'd demand your money back and threaten them with a black spot review if they don't cough up. 

Yup mix and match - thanks for the jargon words - they’re ok to to rake the leaves in the garden - lethal to wear on anything except the walk to Tesco if the pavement is a bit icy.