UKC

Hi,

I was reading another thread on here about offline maps I was wondering if anyone had a link to a good overview on electronic maps for GPS and phones, the  pricing, how to use them with pre-loaded routes and so on.  I know that there's a thing called view-ranger, I've seen mention of OpenStreetMaps, I can see the OS have made their maps available electronically, I have a small handheld satnav, I know that the newer smart-watches can show maps.  I know you can share routes and load them into these devices but I'm not sure what services I should subscribe to, what the cost is, how I'd use them in practice and so on.  Any takers?

Might be a good article in this UKC?

Thanks,

David

I first used anything other than a conventional paper map when I started using mapyx quo on my pc. I've been drawing routes and printing out A4 maps using that for years. It's OS maps, which I like and, best of all, you just buy map tiles as you need them and then you own them. I like that it's not a subscription service (unless you want to subscribe to email tech support). There's none of the social media type stuff that you get with things like outdooractive (which has replaced viewranger).  For me this is a major plus. But ... it isn't always very user friendly. esp when trying to use the android app that works with the maps. I have managed to put many of the map tiles on my 'phone for offline use and they work well once they are on there. But the process of getting the right ones onto my phone is v clunky. And obviously if you want a lot of maps on your 'phone you need a lot of storage.

I've also used subscription services like OS Maps and Outdooractive on my phone. They work pretty well IME but obviously you either need a signal or to be organised enough to download the map sections in advance. I don't like the subscription model, although it's hard to avoid.

Eventually, I bought a watch that has maps. I like the fact that I can save the battery on my 'phone by using the watch and it's way easier to use in bad weather than a 'phone screen. On my watch, which is a garmin, I use talkytoaster maps. These are great and way better and cheaper than garmin's own offerings. You can use them on a pc as well, in garmin basecamp - which allows you to do things like plotting routes/courses to transfer to the watch. The screen is quite small so I usually also carry a printed map section or use my phone when I need a 'bigger picture'. Also, the entire map for the British Isles is always on the watch pre-loaded so no messing about downloading sections of maps in advance. With talkytoaster you either buy a map to install onto your devices (as many as you like), or subscribe so that you also get map updates. If your subscription ends your latest map will continue to work. They look very different from OS maps but I'm slowly getting used to that. I've also managed to get the map onto my android 'phone (to use with Orux maps). This works well although orux feels complex. Again, you can put the entire British Isles map onto your phone in one go, so no messing about with advanced downloads. But obviously you need the storage.

I think the key is to try and work out what things are the most important to you and how much you're willing/able to spend. All the different methods I've used have their pros and cons. I also don't mind spending hours fiddling about with the apps and software and gpx files- but many would find that tedious.

What satnav do you have?

Maps on my watch are great for a race or a wander along a track. You get the track and a direction arrow to follow. You can zoom out and they show the squiggly line of the route, but not much else. If you wandered off route, you'd have an arrow to follow, but not a full map showing features. I also have a widget for my (garmin) watch that will give an OS grid ref.

Try TopGps its really good. Better in some respects than the now defunct Viewranger, which was the best on the market at the time.

Topgps is easy to use and intuitive with some great features. You can buy individual tiles of OS 1:50000 scale and or you can get the whole of the UK at 1.25000 with an annual subscription of £24.

Sadly an article will go out of date quite fast. I've resigned myself to the fact that these products are now, effectively, ephemeral, as they live within the phone app ecosystem. 

So, Garmin obviously won't evaporate, but they are only a hardware solution: they don't have anything like an acceptable software offering. 

OS won't evaporate either, but obviously they are only a "solution" for the UK, and they aren't everything by any means. 

When VR announced it's transition to OutdoorActive, I did a scan around what was available, and came up with 4-5 real candidates for the stuff I do. Anquet, Memory Map, Xplorer, FatMap, stuff like that. Not one of them did a great job on everything. One had a hardware business making quite sensible-looking units for real outdoors folk, but I think I saw that (hardware) just folded for lack of processor availability. 

I can't remember what I was looking for exactly, but it certainly included...

- ability to download very large chunks of territory at at least 1:50km without a huge effort (as if you were going to spend a week in Assynt and assume that you won't get much WiFi) - OA is poxy at this, VR did it really well

- ability to plot a route and have an elevation profile - it was I think Anquet or MM that actually didn't do this despite being fairly competent otherwise

- ability to get a UK grid reference directly off the screen, painlessly - again, OA blows chunks 

What I am not looking for...

- some German tourists review of pubs in Lochinver from 2017 to pop up when I'm trying to plan a route

- a cr@p tonne of advertising taking over screen space

- a great big cross blocking everything within 100m of where I am, and/or a 6mm magenta solid line blocking everywhere I thought I might like to try going

- a £50/year fee (I'm feeling like £20-40 for UK OS is actually reasonable) 

- awesome slope angle coloration at all times (I ski tour - I care deeply about slope angles - Fatmap is amazing for this - but that can be done in the warm in advance - on the fly I can estimate from contours) 

What's my use case ? UK walking/climbing/ski touring. Not much overseas these days. I am sympathetic to small tech firms who have to renegotiate licence fees with dozens of awkward national/private map data providers, that's tough work, but currently the market is what I would call professionally "fragmented and immature" (= piece of sh1t for the consumer.) 

Good luck. 

Y

I use Locus.

I also use Locus, with my own external map.

4UMaps is a good option in it also.

This was a good article, hard to read but detailed. As said, going out of date now:

http://www.cumbriasoaringclub.co.uk/kb/osm.php

http://www.cumbriasoaringclub.co.uk/kb/osm.php#apps

I mostly use OSM but around here some use Swiss Topo or Outdoor Active, depends on where you live and what you do. Never tried the sledding maps though!

Having staunchly used the OS app for a number of years, I recently found AllTrails and I have to say that I was blown away by the 3D feature which really gets you into the topography, helping you prepare for your route in advance. Also helps to place yourself in the environment as it's easier to identify features.

I'm often comparing Locus on my phone vs OS app on my partners phone when we are out. I really miss the elevation shading that Locas adds to the OS 1:25 when i use OS's app. 

Quite interesting. I’ve recently taken on Outdooractive for my phone (plus a power pack) and still trying to get the hang of it, so far I find the planning tool pretty limited once you get away from the well trodden. E.g. it’ll effortlessly show you the path into Coire Lagan but is clueless about accessing the ridge from there.

But for €30 it gives me OS, Swiss topo, and various other national mapping solutions (but not the US as far as I can see) so I’m happy to persevere with it. 

Garmin GPSMAP 64s.   I'm looking at a Fenix 5 or 6 to get the maps (currently have a '3' which will allow a route to be loaded but no map details.

Hi,

Is the GPX file the route?  And can it be transposed onto any map?

For something like talkytoaster maps, do you load them into a watch or GPS?

Thanks,

David

Hi,

Can I load them onto a phone or Satnav or do you use them on a PC to create a route and then transfer that?

Thanks

David

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I'll take a look at the alternatives.

David

#1 Download Garmin Basecamp for free from here (it's maybe a little clunky .. but you grow to enjoy its quirks):  https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/  Windows or Mac

#2 Then you need a map to use with basecamp.  You can buy Garmin's own maps, which are excellent, albeit $$$ ... or you can install a free opensource map.  I do the latter and have done so for years .. I recommend it.  I have never found myself wishing I had a Garmin paid for map.

Full list here - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download

I use 2x maps:

1. https://garmin.opentopomap.org/
2. https://openmtbmap.org/  (Routable=yes)

The latter I happen to think is excellent.  

OpenMTBmap sources its content from https://www.openstreetmap.org/. So .. if you find fault with the map .. then sign up to openstreetmap and fix it.  OpenMTBmap run off a new version of the OpenMTB map ~2 weeks I think.  Install the new version when it becomes available and you'll be in business.

You can install both maps on a Garmin GPS device.  And you can flash the tracks/routes you create in Basecamp onto your GPS.

If using OpenMTB's map  .. it might be fair to donate a little to them.

Cheers.

I have a Fenix 5, and that shows the route, rather than an OS map. (Happy to be wrong on that one. Perhaps it can show an OS map, but I'm doing something wrong.)

Garmin Basecamp will be able to talk to both of your devices. You could load the same route or track on both, and see how they perform. Or even create a short local route on one and import it into the other (Routes and tracks are different.)

I have OS 25 & 50K on a card, that lives in my GPS. When I plug it into Basecamp, I can see the map on the computer. As soon as unplug the device, the computer doesnt show the map. (Probably something to do with copyright.)

Yes.

I guess so if you are using software/an app on your device that allows you to do this.

Talkytoaster - yes. If you look at the website there's a lot of info about what devices they work on. I don't have a handheld GPS but have made the maps work on a garmin watch, an android smartphone and a windows 10 laptop. On the phone and watch I can load a track, which then shows up as a route on the map that I can follow. On the pc I can create tracks which can be saved as gpx files and loaded onto the watch/phone.

ETA - the best way to do this so that you can install the map on numerous devices is to get a year's subscription to the British Isles HD Topo Pro version of the map. If you decided after the subscription period that you don't want to keep paying, you can just carry on using the maps you have. If you continue the subscription you can get updated versions of the maps as and when they are available. They're created from OSM data so they are updated very frequently. 

You can download 1;50000 tiles onto your phone and plot routes really easily on that. Or if you pay the annual fee you can download the 1; 25000maps onto the phone and plot routes on that scale. You can still plot routes if the maps have not been downloaded, biut you would not be able to access the maps if your phone lost signal.