UKC

Hi Guys

Been climbing for a few years but mostly bouldering and the odd outdoors toproping with people who know what they are doing.

I am thinking of doing some climbing nearby where i live and have setup a toprope at home to have a practice if you like before i do it for real. The crag has some trees above it which people use for anchoring and i wondered if the following setup i have done would be suitable? There is a link to view the setup here https://ibb.co/zR1LZ7F

I have two slings which would be used to wrap around two trees, they are shown in the pic wrapped around a piece of wood. The orange rope is a single 5metre static petzl push rope and is fastened to the sling on the left with a figure eight and to the right with a clove hitch and stopper knot via a locking biner. There is two figure 8s and two opposing locking biners for the climbing rope.

Any idea how i could improve on this or would you be happy seeing this and climbing off it?

Sorry if this is in the wrong place or it gets asked all the time, just looking for some decent advice before i do anything daft.

Thanks in advance.

Great that you're asking for help on this kind of question.  Hopefully you'll get some useful suggestions.

I'd add a locking krab between the black sling and orange figure of eight on the left.

I'd use a figure of eight on a bight rather than a clove hitch on the right hand locking krab.

How do you plan to attach the black slings to the trees?

I also suspect that the orange rope will not be long enough unless the trees are very obligingly positioned.

Disappointing as it is, you should really just give it a miss for now.  We're all taking a few weeks off.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/03/outdoor_climbing_-_time_to_put_it_o...

Hi Deepsoup,

Sorry, should have explained that a bit better. I dont have any intentions of going out until this whole thing is done with. Probably just getting a bit carried away with my kit and setup to kill the boredom!

Thanks for the reply Adrian. The clove hitch on the right was for easier adjustment for centering the centre but i know a figure eight is stronger so maybe go with that.

The slings i will wrap around the trees as many times as i can leaving enough for a loop.

Didnt think about the length of the rope. I have another few short statics, would it be ok to use two separate ones? One for each side? And would it matter if they was not joined at the lower figure eights?

Sorry for all the questions, glad of any advice

Regards

Cool, no worries then.

Assuming you're planning to dangle the orange rope over the top of the crag, you might want to think about a bit of edge protection to stop the rope from chafing, especially if the edge is sharp or the rock is particularly rough.  You can buy rope protectors, but a bit of old carpet might do just as well.

If you're looking for things to play with in the yard for now, it might be worth sorting yourself out with a couple of prusik loops and having a (careful!) play with them - ascending, using one as an autobloc to back up an abseil, perhaps 'escaping the system'.

There's bound to be some good stuff on youtube for that (and a lot of rubbish so be careful).  Maybe someone can suggest a good source of online info for you.

Ok - as Deepsoup suggests, have a rootle around on Youtube but look for a specific thing - look for information about how the angle enclosed by the strands of your anchor affects the load on the anchor points.  I'm thinking about this in relation to 2  things:  First, the angle between the orange strands where they meet the double krabs at the bottom and secondly, the angle between the two strands of the sling that you're going to clip together having wrapped the sling around the tree "as many times as I can".  Hope that makes sense!

Like AdrianC says but you only need one fig 8 where the crabs for your top rope are, tie this last then you can make sure it's central to where you want it. The clove hitch without stopper would have been fine if you had a longer rope 

Wrapping the sling repeatedly around the tree does not add to the strength of the system; I would suggest doing a simple basket hitch. If these trees are being used as anchors a lot then some protection (carpet etc) will reduce the damage.

Tie each end of the orange rope to the crabs on the slings with a figure of eight, adjusting the length so that the loop in the middle is slightly (a foot?) longer than you want it to end up.

Then grab the loop in the middle and tie a figure of eight on the bight. Position this master point as best you can to equalise the tension on the two anchors.

Finally check that the angle between the strands coming up from your master point is small enough, add some chafe protection where the static ropes go over the edge, that all your screwgates are closed, and you are good to go.

A note on clove hitches. When building a similar anchor on lead, many of us would use clove hitches. In practice these don't slip but in theory they could. That isn't an issue when building a lead anchor because the ends of the rope(s) are secured to the leader's harness. It is therefore impossible for the clove hitch to work through. With a separate static rope that is not the case so it is best to avoid clove hitches.

As others have said, this looks pretty good but a few tweaks might make things more efficient for you, some of it already mentioned. Using a screw gate on the sling on the left will help save the sling and rope from extra wear. One figure of 8 (or overhand or figure of 9) for your master point will be fine and easier to equalise. Edge protectors to save the ropes. A clove hitch is totally safe on the other sling. Just like the figure of 8, if you have enough tail that you can tie a stopper, you don't need to tie a stopper. Using the clove hitch there will make it easier for you to fine tune the equalisation of the master point.

One thing to think about if you've not already is your safety on the edge of the crag. There's several ways you can do this by using lanyards, prussics or an end of your climbing rope attached to a bomber anchor.

Lots of different ways to set up top/bottom ropes but yours looks like it's most of the way there already. Enjoy it when you can get back out! 

Great idea. I've often tried out prusiking or abseiling methods off a tree branch in a local park, It doesn't have to be very high. (In fact shouldn't be, to avoid extra work for the NHS). Ideally a low branch to start a very short ab from or to set up the anchor on a higher branch.

Hardest thing is to find a quiet location and time where one can avoid spectators and looking a complete pratt.

Edit, I was once discovered by a concerned man who was convinced I was preparing to hang myself.

I think this is ok, but the main concerns I can think of are:

1. That sling on the left looks a bit dodgy; is it tape tied in a loop? If so, whilst some older climbers still use this, most people these days would buy pre-sewn slings, as they're more reliable. This also raises the question of how old your tape/slings are. The extra knots in the slings above the connections are not necessary and actually weaken the slings; the same goes for the girth hitch you've used here to attach the slings to the frame - which is ok but there are better ways. Rather than using a girth hitch, I would generally just fold the sling around the tree and connect the ends together with a crab, as this is the strongest configuration short of doubling (or tripling, etc) the sling. Finally, make sure your trees or other anchors are really reliable, or the whole system could catastrophically fail.

2. Use locking carabiners to connect your slings to your rope (as someone else mentioned). And do these up. The one on the right looks as though it is not done up. Also make sure, in real life, that the carabiners are not being tensioned over an edge.

3. The fig-8 on one end is good, but your stopper knot looks a little dodgy. Make sure there's a good tail, in case of slippage.

4. Contrary to someone else above, I think the clove hitch on the other end is fine, but orient the carabiner the other way, so that the hitch is on the broader part of the crab; preferably use an HMS.

5. There's no need for the double-figure-8 configuration at the master point. Personally, I would bring the two arms together (without creating an obtuse angle) with an overhand to make a nice double arm that I can put a rope protector around, and then put a single figure of 8 on the end for my carabiners. This is an improvement only in as much as it is slightly simpler and therefore more likely that you will equalise the system correctly..

6. The carabiners are best oriented the other way up, so that gravity is working with the spiral-lock to keep the carabiners locked.

7. Make sure that the carabiner loops are hanging in free space, over the edge, so that the rope you will be climbing on can move without being impeded or abraided. Also, double-check that it is equalised in the true direction of pull. Protect yourself from falling off the cliff whilst you sort this out, e.g. by clipping yourself into your rig.

8.  Rope-protectors really are a must. Even on quite a smooth rock like limestone, it's shocking how much a rope can be abraided. It's not just a matter of rope preservation - it's actually a risk for the system failing.

I hope that's actually helpful, and not just overly picky. If you haven't already looked at a book  (most in the UK would recommend this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rock-Climbing-Essential-Skills-Techniques/dp/09541...), then I would, as there are so many variables outside that it's good to get a strong grasp of the basic principles and the rationale behind these, rather than just having one setup in mind.

Best,
CW
 

This popped up on my feed - with a very experienced instructor:  youtube.com/watch?v=eaApvRKwqSE&