UKC

hey all

was wondering if anyone can recommend any good first multi-pitch leads in wales for this summer? We're climbing on a rope of three and all about the same level - been teaching ourselves to lead on Diffs and Vdiffs in the Peaks.

Obviously that's pretty limited in terms of skill level and experience and we just want something not too tough to take things a step further on.

I've seen a few suggestions for first multi-pitchs on here - Ordinary Route on the slabs and First Pinnacle Rib on Tryfan (dodging yellow slab) but wonder if that might be a bit much for first timers? (and a bit busy for a slow rope of three on a summer weekend?!)

Other option are some grade three scrambles - from Cicerone guide - Milestone Buttress Approach/Continuation; Chasm Face Route; West Peak via Bilberry Terrace all look good at grade3 - would any of them be particularly suitable?

and is Cneifon Arete really a grade 3?

cheers all!

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

Ordinary route on Idwal Slabs is very easy, even in the wet, but it's quite long.I think there is an easy route on Milestone butress that isn't too far from the road/fairly easy.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth: so r u looking for multi pitch climbs graded diff to vdiff , i would recomend groved arete on tryfan (vdiff) , ordinary route on milestone buttress (vdiff) . there are good grade 3 scrambles in the chasm face area - chasm face, dolmaen ridge , shark fin ,. and above the idwal slabs the cneifion arete , the grade differs grade3 - mod .

i'd sat that unless your very confident then leave grooved arete for another day. yeah it is awesome but gets tougher the higher you get some guides give it HVD and some would even say bits are Sev! Cneifion arete is a grade 3s srcamble and probably a great option for the three of you. the first short section is around mod but after that it's just scrambling..stick right on the arete for the most fun and a little exposure.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

Flying Buttress on the Cromlech. Massive holds, good gear, fine situations and a mountaineering feel without too much commitment. Not particularly traverse-y so if there's a weaker member of the party they won't find seconding too traumatic.

In reply to tim wright:

Yep have read about Grooved Arete - saw some statistics one time that of all actual climbing MR call-outs (ie not someone in trainers getting cold in the rain) in Snowdonia, Grooved Arete takes the most year after year.

I guess am thinking more "Diff" than "VDiff" just because none of us will have done something that long before - plenty of grade 2/3 scrambles but nothing thats sustained really. But then again am wondering if a 15m Peak Diff is going to turn out to have been much harder than a multi-pitch limestone diff in technical terms. If so VDiff would be fine.

Am thinking Ordinary Route on the slabs is the obvious choice and will therefore be jam packed both with people ahead of us and frustrated people below our slow 3 man rope! Anywhere else? What about First Pinnacle Rib? Or West Peak via Bilberry Terrace (Cicerone book says its the hardest, longest grade3 scramble in the guide)?
cheers all

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth: jst get ur sorry ass up to glen coe. do agags groove Vdiff i think - itll stay with u for a long long time (well it has with me, even tho i try to climb E1). to avoid crowds - go later (most people go early, and this can make it the busiest time, hehehe)

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

Try to get another person for some routes so you do them as pairs. Do some short routes on Gribin Facet or Bochlwyd Buttress first to check out the belay techniques of everyone.
Some of the grade three scrambles will get you running rope out smoothly as well.
Go and do Parsons Nose, easy for most of the way
Parchment Passage on the Cromlech may be suitable, not sure but we did it in such heavy rain when we returned to the tents we found our GFs bailing them out furiously to no avail so went to a club hut for the night and left the tents to take their chances with the river.
Chasm Route is typical grit climbing, if you like chimneys. Safe so long as you wear a nose protector for slips against the opposite wall.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

One vote here for spending a morning on Tryfan Fach, if you're climbing as a three - you won't annoy anyone or risk embarrasment (everyone else there will be there for similar reasons), and it's a nice angle. Plus it's only ever two pitches, so while you're learning a few of the tricks you won't have to suffer for too long, and there are normally whacking great ledges to belay on, so standing around as a three won't be too hard.

Once you've got bored of that, something on Tryfan or the Idwal Slabs would be pretty cool, I'd have thought.

I went to north Wales to learn to climb outdoors with friends who were in the same boat, and we started as a three on Tryfan Fach, more or less making it up as we went along. We did a couple of the severes on Tryfan Fach that same weekend (although it's worth noting they're a soft touch). Looking back I can see that we made some errors, but I don't think we were ever unsafe. If you're used to building belays at the top of climbs, you'll be okay building them halfway up (unlike us, belaying off single nuts...)

We also scared ourselves silly on the sub-Cneifion rib - we were a bit over-confident and hadn't considered what happens when you're out of sight of your belayer. Oh, and also that a 35m single might not be ideal for a team of three unless you're good at throwing.

Have fun - wherever you go you'll be fine!

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:
Ordinary Route on Idwal would be a good choice as it's well-protected, it does get busy but if you start early you'll probably be alright. Don't worry about causing hold-ups, anybody doing that route expecting to have it to themselves is doomed to disappointment anyway. You could follow it by scrambling up and doing the Cneifion Arete (which really is grade 3, or Mod, but the hardest bit is at the start - above that you can keep it harder by keeping as close to the edge a possible, or make it easier by following the polish further left).

Somewhere a little quieter would be Cwm Silyn, there's an excellent Diff which is probably called Ordinary Route as well, it's next to Outside Edge Route (which is an excellent VDiff and might be worth considering for a 2nd route depending how you do on the first!). Though it is a crag which is often recommended so might not be as deserted as when I've been.

re the other scrambles, I've not done the Milestone one (if you're going there you may as well do Milestone Buttress itself, it's VDiff but I've done it with non-climbers and they've coped fine, apart from the entry to the chimney pitch which can always be overcome using traditional means, ie a leg-up). Chasm Face Route is great fun, you could always try doing the VDiff version and escape onto the scramble if necessary (which it probably will be at the Vertical Vice!). The cave bit is very hard with rucksacks, a rope is handy if only to pull them up after you! I'd avoid the Lliwedd scramble until you're a bit more confident, there's a fair bit of loose rock, and scope for going off-route.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

Someone's already mentioned it - Cneifon Arete is a Grade 3 scramble, that starts with a pitch or two of moderate climbing. It'd be a good way to get a feel for multi-pitch rock climbing in the mountains whilst being within your grade. And it's well worth doing in it's own right!

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

I would go fo Llewedd - it's an ar$e of a walk in. Haven't done bilberry terrace but have seen people wandering up and down the ledges looking lost.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth: Lliwedd has definite epic potential, you could find yourselves in serious difficulties should you wander off the route (not too difficult from looking at the description) or if the weather turns bad. Something on the east face of Tryfan would be a better bet - doesn't feel too committing, and lots of easy routes/hard scrambles. Recently did Second Pinnacle Rib (Diff), which wasn't too exposed, and felt more like a scramble than a climb. Was fine in walking boots too.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

Tryfan Fach is a great place to practice a bit of multi-pitch if you're not too confident.

You certainly shouldn't worry about being too slow and annoying others on the routes you've mentioned. Such good routes in the low grades are usually busy anyway and you have as much right to be on the route as anybody else!

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth: There is, I believe "Easy Climbs and Scrambles in Snowdonia" recently published - full of routes just for you - Big scrambles and climbs up to about Diff/V Diff

In reply to toadwork:
http://www.grey-stone.co.uk/what_s_new/what_s_new.html

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

I would recommend the following and in this order;

1. Diffs & V Diffs on Tryfan Bach
2. Milestone buttress; start with Rowan Route. I think it's the perfect beginners lead. It will present you with a few typical problems to do with route finding, gear placement etc, but it's all there where you need it and the stances are obvious. The trick with route-finding is to look for where it's polished. Stop when the wall steepens; the descent is down a gully over to the right. Then try Pulpit Route and/or Milestone direct.
3. Idwal Slabs; Ordinary route, and any of Hope, Faith and Charity.

Then you could try something longer; maybe First Pinnacle Rib.
After that the sky's the limit. I'd recommend Ampitheatre Buttress as a good long route with a real mountaineering feel. Grooved Arete is nice too, but quite polished and a bit harder than the others. That lot should keep you busy for a few weekends.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

I would recommend starding on Tryfan Fach which is has some nice gentle lead routes. Pinnacle Rib on Tryfan is straightforward (I short-roped or soloed most of it) but there is one delicate move which is a bit polished (but fun and well protected). Ordinary Route (D) on Idwall slabs is nice and easy but get there as early as you can.

Save Grooved Arete (Tryfan) and Direct Route (????) on Milestone Buttress for another day as these are a bit more challenging for the grade.

In reply to NorthernerDownSouth:

You'll romp up ordinary route. Make sure you get to the slabs nice and early - it starts getting very busy. Also be aware that there's a downclimb to get off the terrace at the top of Idwal slabs.

It looks worse than it is, but still a slip would have nasty consequences. There's a spike you can abseil off - if you and pals take that option make sure you are suitably armed with the right equipment and knowledge.