UKC

I frequestly do a number of climbs at the Roaches which are very short single pitches. As such I would like to use 1 half rope doubled back on itself: 50m half rope, folded in half to produce two 25m lengths of rope.

Abviously I can tie into both of the lose ends of rope using 2 figure of eights. How should the second person tie in?

Cheers,

T

In reply to termites:
Treat the folded end of the rope exactly as you would treat the end of a single rope and do a standard re-threaded figure-of-8, the byte of rope being threaded trhough the harness. You will need to leave more rope though as the knot will be bulkier, and don't forget to do a double stopper.

In reply to termites:

Lok at this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=130730#1809114

In reply to termites:

Bowline on a bight: Start to tie a bowline as normal (with the double end of the rope). After passing the tail through the loop pass the tail over your head rather than round the knot (as you would for a normal bowine). Next shorten the knot. You should now have neat bowline on a bight which doesn't need stoppers and can't work lose.

Also, I find it best if the leader ties on to the middle, as it lets any tangles work themselves out before the second ties on.

Mark

In reply to Anonymous:


May be a minor point but I disagree with that, I always make a point to tie in the ends when leading because it enables to tell be tween the "left" rope and "right" rope much more easily then if I'm tied in the middle when using one doubled half rope. Its easy for the 2nd owait until the leader is safe the nrun their hands through the rope and untwist it before tying in.

In reply to Si dH:


Yes, I can see the advantage of that, but I find telling the ropes apart next to impossible no matter what order we tie in!

Mark

In reply to Alun:

I find this a total pain in the arse and you end up with a massive knot. I generally use the Chris Tan death knot or just tie a figure of 8 loop and clip in with a screwgate.

In reply to Anonymous: well if youre tied in the ends, you generally have one rope on th eleft of the belay loop and one to the right, so you can tell, whereas if in the middle, its one big knot with two ropes coming out the bottom togetehr and creates a faff when youre clipping gear. Thats my theory anyway

In reply to chris tan XLIX:

Hey! The legendry Chris Tan "death knot" is re-born.
Excellent.

In reply to Si dH:

I know, it makes perfect sense when you think about it, just never seems to work in practice. I've often wondered why the ropes that change colour (or pattern) half way through aren't more popular over here; I've only ever seen them in the states (or on american climbers).

Mark

In reply to wizz walker:


To be honest, I only thought of the bowline on a bight method after reading about the "Chris tan death knot". It seems a lot safer to me, but sadly lacks an exciting name. Any ideas?

Mark

In reply to Anonymous:

Think that's because tying in is a bit more of a pain and threading 60m of rope through a maillon or ab tat is a right pain when compared to tying a knot.

In reply to Si dH:

If you do that and you run short of rope for the belay this leaves you something of a faff to sort things out, i.e untie one end of rope, drop over edge of cliff, watch it run down through you gear & tangle in that bush on the ledge halfway up the route, pull in on other end until you have enough to sort out belay. If you're tied into the middle, the sequence is pull in on one side until you have enough to sort belay. Simpler.

Tieing in with a bowline on the bight with 2 turns on the loop in the knot (last time this came up i got told off for calling it a double bowline) is not a very bulky knot (sorry) & surely it's not that hard to look down for a second and see which rope is which?

In reply to chris j: Have read the thread linked above and realised I said exactly the same there as well, so will stop sounding like a stuck record till next time...

In reply to Jon Dittman: really, bowline on a bight isn't any bigger than 2 figure 8s? whats a chris tan death knot?

In reply to Jon Greengrass: just did a search for the chris tan death knot aka, larks footing on to your harness!! sounds like a very elegant solution., might have to rig up a drop test to see if it is safe.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

If you're seconding, the CTDK (patent pending) is the way to go. You'll not generate any forces to cause the knot to fail or to become stuck.

Leading is where it becomes interesting. I've belayed Chris when he has fallen off leading using his 'death knot' & there were no problems to either the rope or him!

This doesn't mean it's safe though, which is why it has such a moniker!

Phil.

In reply to Anonymous:
do I understand this to mean you end up with a loop of rope around your waist. Can you clarify?

In reply to Dux:


No you end up with a (true) bowline on a bight tied through your harness.

There is a bit of confusion about the name. A normal bowline, tied in a doubled rope, is often refered to as a bowline on a bight. A true bowline on a bight is slightly different, but has the big advantage of being unable to work lose, and as such doesn't need a stopper knot.

I was going to try and explain again how to tie it but thought an illustrated link might be more effective: http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/bowlineonabight.htm

Mark

In reply to Anonymous:

Many thanks Mark,

It all starts to make more sense now < while he tries to untangle himself from all this rope>!

In reply to chris tan XLIX:


No problem. It's worth sticking with. I found at first that it took a while to tie (especially shortening the knot) but after a bit of practice it takes no more time than a single rethreaded figure of eight.

Mark

In reply to Anonymous:

We'll have to call the knot Mark's Sound As An Euro Knot - MSAAEK for short

In reply to Anonymous:

Excellent! I've had a play with this and am happy to use it for tying in. But a question - was looking at using this instead of a larks foot for cow tailing a 120cm sling. Rather than bring the bite over my head I can pass it over the other end of the sling. Is this still a bowline on the bite? Is it safe?

In reply to Dux:


Yes.


I don't see why not, though knots in tape often behave differently to knots in rope, so I'll have to pass on that one.

Mark

Doh! Bight, I mean bight! Thanks Mark.