UKC

Following an early season on-sight of Daddy Longlegs (VIII 9) in Coire an Lochain the previous week, Jon Bracey headed back up to Scotland and on 28th November, and together with Rich Cross and Martin Moran, the team put up a new route on the far Far East Walls of Beinn Eighe.

See news: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/index.html

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: brilliant! nice one lads! i heard Beinn Eighe was in good nick during that spell and the Far east walls in rare nick, bit of a coup that one and with a long drive from sheffield as well! inspiring stuff.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
Indeed! Well done chaps. We need more attention focused this season on the steep bits of Beinn Eighe. This place will be the future of hard mixed climbing in Scotland. And it won't require any bolts, just alot of strengh, courage and techniche which these three obviously have in spades.
Lets hope that these ascents set the tone for the winter, i am inspired - i might even do a couple off pullups!
Bring it on!

James e

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: it looks a bit hard, even when I tilt my head.

Martin Moran is still right up there as well and seems to have outlasted Rab Anderson etc.

In reply to yer maw:

Aye Martin Moran certainly still is right up there.

Didn't he do some enormous Girdle Traverse of Beinn Bhan a couple of winters ago?

In reply to DougG:

Out of interest how old is Mr Moran?

In reply to SimonW:

http://www.moran-mountain.co.uk/moran-mountaineering/about.html

He's keeping it quiet here!

In reply to SimonW: He did his winter Munros in 84-5, and the book's cover says he was 31 then. That makes him 51 or 52 now.

In reply to Erik B:

Not brilliant, go home you theiving Sassenach b***ards! Sheffield is too close for comfort, so check you tyres before you drive boys

Mr Moran is obviously still going well enough to carry the rucksacs

In reply to Wry Gob:

Now now, play nicely!

Looks great, might get some training in...

In reply to Tom, Anyone:

What are the accepted ethics of a winter ascent? I ask because the article describes a '3hr tussle with the crux'.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could stay climbing for 3hrs without eventually hanging on their gear, dogging if you like? I suppose that you could hang direct from a bulldog or other gear to rest rather than from your roped protection, but this would invalidate a summer ascent to A0 wouldn't it? Why not in winter?

I understand that hanging belays don't compromise a route since there is often no other way to swing the rope for the next lead, but hanging mid pitch seems iffy to me.

Or am I wrong and on a Grade VIII 9 crux pitch there are still likely rest-positions you can stand for a matter of hours?

Many questions. What do those climbing at these higher grades think?

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:

Dear Rock

From your many questions, I gather you have not done any new winter routes in Scotland. A strong team taking 3 hours on a pitch is not unusual, as there is no pre-inspection etc.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

I haven't done ANY new winter routes in Scotland. Graded ones are enough for me.

I just find it hard to believe anyone could teeter on front points and axes on a 'hoared-up rock' route (see picture in article) for hours. Surely their calves would eventually give in? Even bridged rests beconme untenable eventually? If the leader did a pitch in 3hrs in that style then I'm in awe.

I ask because I've denied myself the claim on some routes where I felt that I 'sieged' the route rather than climbed it. No biggie I just like good days out, and returning alive

If this sort of ethic is acceptable then I can claim a few V's without being a bullsh1tter? Which would be kinda nice.

Not doing these chaps down just genuinely curious about how the climbing community sees acceptable style for winter stuff.

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:

Dear Rock

I regard hanging from ones tool as cheating, not aid climbing. I have no doubt about this ascent as they are a strong team in winter.

If it was not tiring, both physically and mentally, more people would be doing this sort of route. In fact the physical side of this type of new routing is easier than the mental strength required to keep going, after all the 3 hour pitch might not be the hardest pitch, as there is no route description to tell you it is.

Norrie

In reply to Rock DJ:

I have stood belaying a mate for 3 hours on a 'lowly' V,6 40m mixed crux pitch. Conditions were not ideal with verglass blocking out all the cracks, making the route very time consuming and very hard to climb (probably more like VII nick). All credit to 'nameless' that he managed it at all. So I can see how an extremely hard new pitch route could take that long too.

Davie

In reply to I am the God of Strathyre: On our first V,6 (Menage a Trois) my mate took over 2 hrs to lead the crux, it might have even been closer to 3. It felt like three weeks belaying. I could easily believe someone being on one pitch for three hours.

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:


You can't just presume they must have rested because it took a long time. If you rest on a pitch, you should declare it when you write up the ascent. I've done this once, spent ages trying to thread a difficult chock in a very strenuous postion, and clipping into a tool ultimately seemed better than taking quite a big pendulum fall to may last bit of gear, 5 mtrs or so to my left.

In reply to TobyA:

I'm happy to be corrected. It was only a gut feeling since I can't imagine someone taking 3hrs on an equivalent summer route where people just don't hang on that long.

I can easily belive hanging around (maybe they had 'Mick Fowler cords' attatched to their rucksac straps) on a pure ice route or one with deep placements. The photo doesn't suggest that.

Anyway is clipping a tool ok but clipping temporary gear not? What's the form?

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:

Any resting on gear or tools should be declared at their level. It becomes an aided move the same as on summer rock if you clipped gear and stood in it/ pulled up on it.

I reckon the photo explains it fairly well. It looks very open, bold, hard and steep. I've seen summer E1's look easier from photos. The gear can take ages to find, clear and arrange on new routes particularly as all a lot of the cracks will be choked with dirt/ moss/ turf. Clearing these kinds of cracks can be hard work, especially if you are climbing extremely hard ground.

Winter climbing can be a quick process if you are confident in the moves and the gear (even if it's not 100% bomber). I've only been on new routes up to upper grade IV and it's not something you 'batter into'if you're sensible. As Norrie said, you don't know if the ground ahead of you will be even harder or very dangerous.

Winter climbing can be a quick process if you are confident in the moves and the gear (even if it's not 100% bomber)though.

Davie

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:

Dear Rock

It depends, but clipping in should be counted as aid and reported as such.

Take my word for it, 3 hours on a pitch is not unusual on new routes. Most of the time is finding protection, you could spend 20 minutes scrapping away the ice and find nothing, so you have to go higher and start again looking about. Time literally flys by and it is the second who notices the long time doing the route. By the way, your calves burn standing about on your points all the time.

Norrie

In reply to 'Rock'DJ:


A rest point is a rest point - doesn't really matter if its on a tool or bit of gear.

The only thing I would disagree with Davie (God of Straph-thingy) is a rest isn't the same as aid. For example when I took a rest on the route I mentioned above, I did hang, but I didn't do a move with aid that I couldn't do free - i.e. all the route was free, but I couldn't do all the moves without resting. Its a little difference, but kind of important. But if you are going to write up a route I think its honest just to say exactly how you did it.

In reply to TobyA and others:

Thanks for your opinions on form etc.

Ok,in that case I've done a couple of V's hanging from a bulldog or axe to rest...

(Rats it still doesn't sound very unequivocal does it?)

The whole thing is outrageous and down right cheeky, I mean I was in aww at being out snowboarding at Cairngorm on November 28th but these fellas took the piss. Hats off!

In reply to Jonny Kevlar:

How are they taking the piss?

In reply to I am the God of Strathyre:

Is there a difference in style between resting on gear or tools and using them for protection?

ie. If I bang the leashless axe of my clipping/gear_placing hand up to the hilt and then run the rope over the curved rest (Quarks) on the spike for psychological protection but don't weight it while placing a screw does this lose style points?

Actually perhaps it should gain style points because when the other axe rips and I weight my "protection" if that rips I guess I'm a lot worse off - still take the fall and lose an axe into the bargain!

In reply to Robbie H:

If you don't take a rope rest on gear/ tools it's still free climbing. Your belayer shouldn't be taking your weight, eh?

Davie

In reply to I am the God of Strathyre:

Hmm, I think some low altitude testing of the reliability of "temporary axe protection" in various types of ice will have to be attempted shortly after Xmas.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

Bracey and Cross two of the scenes most feared line bandits on a global scale, have pulled off a real coup under all our noses, how did they get through the road blocks? and it seems Moran has decided to turn coat and become the insider, he has suffered sheffield raiders in the past, the most feared of all line bandits the Hesildon ( is he half man half machine!), with his snatched ascent of foobarbundie, bringing Moran to tears!, so it is said, he now embraces them with open arms, in Morans case if you can't beat them join them.

It appears Cross and Bracey travelled incognito untill just before the climb, ascending into the corrie in shell suits and trainers, with there hill gear in holdalls to a rendezvous with Moran below Blood Sweat and Fozen tears, here they donned black jumpsuits, an eye witness out rambling did note three shadowy figures on the wall, but can not be certain, the rest is history i guess....