UKC

Been looking at bikes a lot lately, and reading a lot of reviews and magazine articles. I asked about the Orange Patriot and Five on here recently, the patriot being classed as an 'all-mountain' or 'freeride' bike, and the five as a trail bike. Sounds simple.
Thing is, the Patriot doesn't weigh much more than the Five, and there seem to be lots of folk who use it as a general trail bike.
It seems weight is less of an issue now, with even bikes specifically designed as long travel freeride machines weighing under 35lb. To put that into context, my 1999 Rockhopper weighs over 30lb, and that's an xc bike. In other words, I'm quite happy to ride a bike weighing 33lb, either up or down, because I have been doing for nearly ten years.
It seems to me that these 'do it all' bikes are the way forward, unless you're a speed-freak or xc racer, or can afford several bikes, one for all occasions.

Anyone own a freeride or all mountain bike which they use for every ride?

In reply to BrianT: Your logic sounds fine except a freeride bike will be designed to handle in a specific way. So even though it may not necessarily way siginificantly more it will have a lot more "bob" than the trail bike. Which will suck up a whole more energy climbing. The thing is your 99 rockhopper may weigh 33 pounds but it's still a rigid frame which is a much more efficient energy transmitter than that big bouncy suspension bike you've been looking at.

Oh & i reckon you'd be much better off looking at the specialized you previously mentioned. Orange bikes are grand but they're no where near as advanced as the specialized's.

In reply to BrianT: Hey Brian... long time no see...

I've got a 35lb-ish trail bike that I have used for general XC duties, but it's a bit of a bugger really and it's far more enjoyable being on my hardtail or singlespeed... It's not just the weight of the bike that makes a difference though, it's how it's set up to ride.

But then I am one of those gits who has a bike for different occasions..

Out of the two bikes you list, I'd pick the Five over the Patriot almost every time as there is just no need for 6+ inches of travel for pretty much anything in the UK... 5 inches, which I have on my 5 Spot, is pretty much over the top for most of the time as well, but they are fun at the dedicated trail centres...

The other thing about the bikes is that depending on the intended purpose, they will have a different cockpit position, so the Patriot will tend to be more upright than the Five, which would be more upright than a XC bike etc..

In the end though, it's all gotta be down to what fits, and what feels good...

In reply to BrianT:
In reply to BrianT: It all depends what you want to ride on your bike.

as an example when I was living near Thetford forest a couple of months ago I was all for selling my Marin FRS and getting a 29er singlespeed as that was what the smooth, fast and flowing singletrack I was riding there suited.

Now i'm living in the north east of Scotland where the trails are considerably more rocky, rooty and steep! I'm glad I've still got 4" of suspension. There are guys I ride with locally who ride all mountain rigs with 5-6" (Patriot, specialized enduro, Giant Reign)travel and they don't have much trouble on the ups on our Thursday night play rides, whereas I struggle on my bike on the steep downs with its weedy v-brakes, steep head angle and a 130mm stem. On a Tuesday night cross country ride they all bring their hardtails instead which makes me wonder how all mountain the other bikes really are, i think maybe the geometry is just too slack to get the most out of more general cross country riding.

In reply to BrianT: i think for the uk to get the best out of it if you really want an all mountain bike, you need to get one with lockable/platform suspension. Also if i was buying a new bike i'd definatly go tubeless esp with the ammount of suspension you're thinking about, as reducing the unsprung weight will help to spin the bike up to speed a little quicker

In reply to BrianT: also if you're up for riding the selkirk merida

http://www.mtb-marathon.co.uk/events/selkirk.php

Pete has space is his car, said he can give you a lift to it, should be a few of us riding it

In reply to BrianT:
Hi Bri, forsook my HT for an 06 Marin Attack Trail last year and use it for everything - adjustable travel but I tend to leave it on 6inches at the back as the bob is almost non existent. Only about 29lbs, prob a bit flexi for a heavy hitter but fine for a skinny rat like me.
HT sits unloved now, can't imagine not wanting to use the susser for anything apart from pootling to the shops. Burly chap like you would suit something like a Spesh Enduro, plenty on Ebay. Time for another mtb picnic?
Jock

In reply to johnj: Lockable like the maverick DUC fork on the Whyte 46 I rode a couple of years back. That was a fine bike and an easy ride.

Anyway, the idea is I keep running my old hardtail for less challenging stuff, but the full susser will allow me to comfortably ride more gnarly things.

Who mentioned singlespeeds? <shudder>

In reply to Jock: The bike I'm getting has pro-pedal, whicjh is new on me, but is meant to stop Bob.

In reply to BrianT:

It is the month of July, you should be out on a road bike not thinking about a two wheeled bouncy castle

In reply to Jock: Oh and mtb picnic sounds good. When the good weather arrives in Aug or Sept eh? Saw a carbon spesh enduro go for £1200 on the 'bay. Bloke had minus one feedback though so no way did I bid!

In reply to Horse: Don't do road bikes. I hate riding on the road. Where's the fun?

In reply to Frank4short:
The bikes I've been looking at are described as 'all mountain' rather than freeride. There seems to be a subtle difference.

In reply to BrianT:

or even better something like these

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360026694

as you mention the propedal rp23, has fully locked, a traction control type setting for climbing, and a fully active for going down

In reply to johnj: Or indeed a Fox 36 talas up front (100-160mmm adjustable travel) and a DHX Air round the back.

In reply to BrianT: indeed much as the same, but last time looked at the talas they were a hundred quid or so more expensive

In reply to johnj:
The miracle that is ebay...

...coupled to riders with too much money who buy stuffon a whim then decide they want summat else instead...

In reply to BrianT:

I always thought "Freeride" were big, burly bikes with long travel (air/oil sprung shocks, heavy rims/frames/cranks), for hitting up big drops, jumps, structures, all that North Shore type stuff and "all mountain" are just plain mountain bikes for general eeeeeer, all mountain riding (as opposed to XC bikes which are light and flimsy and not to be used for anything fun).

For your average Joe, unless he's planning on doing something silly, freeride bikes are heavy, overkill.
Especially if you want iot for "general" use.

Somebody, please correct me.

My 0.02 quid - I bought a Cove Stiffee FR hardtail frame, and put all XC stuff on it and it's f*cking great. Best bike I've ever owned. I'll never go back to full suss.

Whatever you buy, happy riding and tell us all about it!

In reply to Matt Rees: Aha. That's about it. I think it's all-mountain I'm talking about. Freeride is hucking and riding on planks in the woods, coupled to a bit of DH. I'm on about bikes that aren't especially light, but are light enough and designed so they can be ridden up as well as down anything, and ridden all day if desired, without killing you. Spesh enduro, Orange Patriot, Marin Rift Zone, SC Nomad etc etc.

In reply to BrianT:

Riding on planks in the woods - we did that when we were kids. Planks on bricks, on us Raleigh Grifters. I'm a freerider, me.

I had a go on a Nomad in the shop when I was looking around. Very nice bike.

Also liked the Spec Enduro (Elite, or pro, or captain, or something)- great value on those Specialized bikes.

In reply to BrianT:

maybe the saw the light and bought bombers

In reply to Matt Rees: I own a Yeti ASX, with maguara gustav brakes, marzocchi 66 SL 1 ATA, basically its a heavy mofo. But i still use it for everyday riding. Its harder to do but the way i see it it gets you fitter.

In reply to BrianT:

Your main problem will be the geometry.

The Patriot will have slacker seat and head angles, shorter top tube and longer wheelbase. All of which are great on the downhills, but make life difficult on the ups (and twisty singletrack).

All that travel will be energy sapping too, even with a 'platform' damped shock.


The Five is a much more suitable bike for all-round riding.

In reply to Flaming_climber:
Yeah I just got PMed by a bloke who rides a Norco Six. Uses it for everything and manages to keep up with his mates on XC bikes without much bother. That weighs 34lb.

In reply to BrianT:

I guess it depends on what sort of climbing you want to do. If you just want to get to the top, via relativly easy trails, in order to ride down then and AM bike is great.
Steep and technical climbs will always be very difficult though 'cos of the geometry.

In reply to Glen: Lol! I end up pushing on technical climbs anyway!

In reply to BrianT:

Heavy built to be abused long travel bikes are the only thing to ride in the Peak!

Don't listen to these weight consensus ex roadies!!

I have two bikes I use in the Peak, a custom built Giant VT (DH wheeel set, 2.4 tyres, DH tubes and Shimano XT brakes (the good older ones), 8" rotors, Romic rear shock) and a custom built Santa Cruz Bullit (Super Ts, Custom 9" Travel Romic Rear shock etc etc).

The Bullit makes the Peak District downhills a bit too easy, so tend to use the VT more for going out with mates. The VT will climb up the loosest rockiest shit when everyone else has started walking ages back. It can bloody fly on the DHs.

Never liked Orange full sussers: I would go for another Giant without question (the Reign is meant to be very good), then ditch the rear air shock and get an oil over coil. Same with front, keep away from air shocks. Get beefy rims, big tyres (consider tubeless?) and fat inner tubes.

Then learn not to use the brakes ! I'd also keep well away from Hope disk brakes. Can't fault Hope hubs though.

In reply to ChrisJD:

And don't ask me how much they weigh, I have no idea !

Why would you weigh your mountain bike?

In reply to ChrisJD: probaly the same reason why you'd like giant but not orange, or like shimano discs, but not hope, no logic to any of it, it about riding aint it?

In reply to johnj:

Sorry there is logic to my comments.

Comments are based on actual experience and taking on board comments by people I know and trust.

Have had bikes with Hope disk brakes (two pots & four pots on 8" rotors) and frankly they were not up to it. I've also used Hayes (they were very good, but not enough modulation for my liking). The Shimano XT system (we have them on three of our bikes) have been faultless. Although I'm told that the more modern Shimano XT are nowhere near as good. Go figure

So its not a issue of brand preference, it's a case of what I've used, what my riding mates have used and what works best

In reply to ChrisJD: where as i have a set of original hope c2 late 90 brakes, did me a full season working in the alps on a downhill rig, been fitted to three bikes have been used through the last 3 peak winters most weekend, plus every summers riding had to rebuild the rear master cylinder once, they are lacking a little in power. but they have yet to let me down

because your gang doesn't use them, doesnt mean they don't work, hence my comment of no logic

In reply to BrianT:

or the other way to look at it is that the bikes, particularly full sussers have got a bit lighter. So yes, you could get a patriot weighing not much more than your rockhopper but you could easily get a full sus XC machine the same weight.

So why would you want to haul any more weight up the hill than you have to as long as the kit is up to the job?

Unless you're planning on hucking big dropoffs (which may be your thing for all i know - if so, respect!) I'd be quite happy with a decent XC machine myself - i have a relatively boring Marin XC machine which has taken the odd (unintentional) 3-4 footer without a murmur and gets a regular battering in the hills. A friend's got an Sub5 which he rates and it is undoubtably a bit burlier than the Marin or specialised XC machines ...

In reply to BrianT: 5" travel is the way to go,cracking selection of bikes in that range, longer travel for mega drops(although mate was easily riding an 8' drop off on a Cove Stiffee) and DH. Long travel bikes are generally slower handling, more so on slow tech stuff, with slacker angles and the extra weight. Most 5" bikes will weigh around the 30lb mark which has advantages beyond merely grinding uphill. Coil forks and shocks add weight, a lot of the time for no benefit. Haven't ridden anywhere/anything that couldn't be done on a hardtail. Keep it real!

Iain

In reply to ChrisJD:

So long as I can ride it and it's fun, I'm not fussed abput weight. I want to get up the climbs, but not bothered about getting up fast. I almost bought a Reign 1 off ebay but it was slightly too small.

In reply to Removed User:
I too have ridden most things on a hardtail, but I'm fed up of rattling down teeth-loosening descents, getting my arse kicked by the saddle. I am venturing into the full sus world, which I might eventually decide I don't like, who knows. Decided to go for an all-mountain rig as I already have an old, but still perfectly serviceable, hardtail. Yes I could get a lighter bike, but the bike I'm going to get is desiogned to be ridden all day on all trails. It's not a freeride bike per se, but could probably cope easily with that sort of stuff if I ever wanted to do it (unlikely). I hope I won't find it hard work, and have good testimony from other riders who use such bikes on everyday trails. Maybe it's a bit overmuch for the South Downs, but I reckon the Peak has trails to make it worthwhile, and it'll be good at Glentress, Dalby etc.

In reply to BrianT: My top choices for AM FS bikes...

Orange Five
Yeti 575
Cove Hustler

Also, Commencal Meta 5.5 or even GT iDrive(next years bikes look cracking).

Iain

In reply to BrianT: Keep your arse off the seat, no bike handles well with you sat on it ;O)

I would argue that if you want a bike you can ride all day then weight IS an issue. It wouldn't need to be an anorexic XC bike but theres little point lugging a great lump of frame/suspension about that you'll rarely need.

And believe me any of the above bikes will be vastly capable at Glentress et al.

Iain
(5" travel AM bike owner)

In reply to Removed User:
Well, there's obviously a vast range of opinions on the merits of long travel, or even on full sus in iteself, vs hardtail.

I definitely want a change from the hgardtail, and I do ride out of the seat, but I can't drop it cos my seatpost's seized totally (and it's a new club roost so I'm not sawing it out!). Rocky descents are a bit of an ordeal on a hardtail, imo. Too much so in fact.

So far I've considered
Specialized Enduro (06 and the new 07 models)
Giant Reign 1
Norco six SE 07 model
Orange patriot and five
Marin Mount Vision 07

All of these (except the O5) are 30-35lb, which I'm happy with, and all are marketed as ride all day, ride anywhere bikes. Only one I've looked at outside these was an Ellsworth Truth, but read too many tales of broken frames so it put me off.

In reply to BrianT:
>Only one I've looked at outside these was an Ellsworth Truth, but read too many tales of broken frames so it put me off.

I rode an Ellesworth Joker for a few years. I gave up, it was sh*t.

In reply to johnj:

I used to have C2, they were OK, but not enough power. Upgraded to the four pots. They had more power, but boiled up like crazy and were basically useless at the end of long alps downhills. On advice from a guy who runs a DH team and custom tunes DH bikes & forks( who wouldn't touch Hope brakes if you paid him), he receommended the XTs. Put them and and now NEVER worry about having to stop. What more do you want?

Two of my riding mates are also bike mechanics (and much better riders than me) and my view is also borne out by what they.

So where is my lack of "logic"?

You may want to put up with something that are "lacking a little in power", but sorry I don't. So its not a case of having a go at something cos they don't work (C2 and Hopes in general are good brakes((says though gritted teeth!) - its just there is better out there, so why compromise?

So back to the OP - he was asking advice and direct experience of riders of all mountain/freeride bikes - and that's what I'm giving.

In reply to BrianT: FWIW(prob not that much) my knowledge/opinion on what you've picked....


Specialized Enduro-great bike but there like arseholes(everyones got one)
Giant-no idea, don't see many despite a Giant dealer locally.
Norco-Canada's version of Raliegh/Carrera(Canadian opinion not mine)
Patriot & 5-Patriot is a lump, the 5 will go anywhere you want(has to be the FoxRP23 shock)both occasionally have true SP querkiness(sp)
Marin-Jon Whyte design but buggered up by Marin, if you want the ride go for a Whyte46.

Genuinely reckon the bikes on my list would prove better than the ones listed above(the Pipedream could be a gem).

Cheers
Iain
ps if you ride at Selkirk I'll see you there!

In reply to ChrisJD: as you say c2 the system is closed as the fluid warms up, you have to manually adjust the bite point on the fly with one finger whist braking with the other

the problem with shimano is once they break thats it, a lot of times all you can do is buy a new pair, hope are completly rebuildable

you get folk who swear by hope, folk who swear by avid, folk who swear by magura etc, because a couple of bike mechanics say one works and don't use this means thats what they like, not a diffinative view on what is the best

also if shimano is so good why does steve peat use avids on shimano rotors?


i wouldn't worry about it i'm just in the hope camp, i've broke loads of xt mechs, doesn't mean its a bad mech

In reply to johnj:


This is very true. I "swear" well highly recommend magura gustavs. But i am not fond of shimano, i replaced mine with the gustavs after 1 month. I wouldn’t choose any other brakes. But its all personal preference.

In reply to ChrisJD: also shimano just dont pimp up the same, as i'm sure you now, its not how you ride, its what your bike looks like in the car park

In reply to johnj:

It's not a case of one not working, its a case on which is best.

Or are you saying all thse components all have the same utility and perform exactly the same ?

I ride bikes pretty hard and give minimal time to maintenance, so crap kit doesn't last long ! When I got my VT, I wore out/broke/bent/abused the stock components very quickly and had to strip everything down to the frame & forks after 6 months. Spent the money and put on good kit and it has lasted really well with near enough zero input from me.

In reply to ChrisJD: not much difference to me shimano and hope for peformance, as i said before my c2s are over ten years old, still work well, i don't have one shimano compontent of the same vintage

In reply to Removed User:
Hmmm...First I've heard of Norco being a 'high street' bike manufacturer. I've always seen them as more of a Rocky Mountain or Santa Cruz type firm. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see...

http://www.norco.com/index.php

In reply to BrianT: Well I certainly don't think they're in the same league as Santa Cruz(it was a Canandian opinion, not mine). Whatever, they ain't the prettiest looking things!

Iain

In reply to johnj:


So there it is

I've used C2s, Hope four pots, Hayes and Shimano XT (older model) on actual bikes on mine and I KNOW there is a difference. You've just used the C2s

So when you have some ACTUAL experience of different braking systems, come back to this discussion.

In reply to Removed User: I dunno about that. The new hydroformed frames have that 'shitting dog' look which divides people (see SC Nomad or new Spesh Enduro). Personally I love it. Black Heart Billy hates it.

In reply to BrianT:

If you are interested in some exotic hardware, have a look at some of the Intense frames. They are somewhat gorgeous.

In reply to ChrisJD: i worked in the trade for 6 years, built over 1000 pairs of wheels, worked on pro riders bikes, worked as a mountain bike guide in the alps for a couple, have ridden effectively every thing out there

i love my lil hopes as well, can i still talk to you?

In reply to ChrisJD: Yeah I know. Out of my league pricewise though I think.
The weight argument seems to divide people. I reason that if I like riding the bike, I get out more, ergo I lose weight off me, so the few pounds extra on the bike doesn't matter.

In reply to BrianT:

Kona King?

In reply to BrianT:

I always find the first few rides with a heavier bike are a struggle after a layoff! But it always come back after a bit.

Been into biking much more this year than climbing (did far too much climbing last year and burnt out a bit), its been real good to be out and about

I've tried to use lighter kit - but it always just seem to break !

In reply to johnj:

I will immediately go and sell all three sets of my XTs and put on old C2s.

I yield to your experience.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Hope make more brakes than c2, in fact they dont sell them any more, only backwards folk like me still use the things. maybe while you've seen the light you should fit some of the vented hope motos, or maybe get some air sprung suspension, its all the rage don't you know?

In reply to johnj:

Don't start me on air sprung........

In reply to johnj:


I sold a front and rear C2 set on ebay a few months back - what a fool I am.

In reply to ChrisJD: yes such bike porn shouldn't be sold

i've sold a yeti lawhill 6, and a pace rc500

i really should have kept hold

As always, lots of extreme opinions on a thread like this... but in the end, as I said before, you need to get out and ride some of these bikes to see what suits.

At the end of the day most of the FS bikes out there are pretty darned good, you don't find many lemons these days, so whatever you get will be fine really...

But don't write off the lighter weight bikes just because you are used to lugging a heavyish bike about, sub-30lb bikes are quite capable of taking a hammering, and do make a surprising amount of difference, especially when you end up walking!

Ooooh, and one last thing, as you will be doing lots of Peak/Yorkshire riding, then I would suggest something with the least number of pivots as you can... as that grit gets everywhere when it's wet, and turns into a very good grinding paste... the other option is to make sure that the manufacturer has a lifetime warranty on the bearings. It's definitely worth taking into account as a set of bearings for some bikes can cost upto about 80 quid.

Ooooh.. just had a thought...

It might be worth looking at some of the new breed of 4X frames that are cropping up... they look like they can take some abuse, while still being nimble etc...

Turner5spot got to be the best all mountain fs mtb frame there is

In reply to Removed User:

Norco are not the Raliegh of Canada. Norco turned its self around in the mid 90s with the whole freeride thing and under new management built its name again as a strong free ride bike company and started to re enter the x-country scene again. They managed to start building bikes for the free ride market at the right time and are still considered a market leader in that scene.

In reply to FunkyNick:


Agreed my 26lb full susser is nine years old this year and is still holding up under my 14 stone frame and nothing on it has ever broken. Admittedly the rims finally wore through earlier this year but 8 years of riding on the original wheel can't be bad. It even survived falling off the roof rack last week at 60mph, the sparks coming off the titanium saddle rails where something to behold.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:


You can't be trying that hard.

In reply to Flatlander:
Phew cheers. Glad you said that seen as I just bought one.

In reply to BrianT:

You just bought one of these?

http://www.norco.com/2007bikes/Mountain/AllMountainFreeride/model.php?id=36...

In reply to ChrisJD: Yep. Not at that price though.

In reply to BrianT:

Nice, I was looking at the Six and the Shore before I bought my SX Trail a few months back. Be interested to know if you get on with the DHX Air (I got the impression you're not exactly waif-like from the thread) - I found the air shock went through its travel a bit too easily. Fortunately the coil equivolent is cheaper if you decide you want to switch, I really prefer the feel of the coil shock on bigger hits.

Enjoy the new wheels

In reply to BrianT:

yes, Orange Evo O2 (2003 model). Use it for everything and it suits me very well, is super quick as a x country machine.

In reply to MikePemberton: I wouldn't mind an SX trail. I've just bought a Stinky Primo though, as I wanted something a bit beefier.

Brian - What about an 06 S-Works Enduro? Bit of a bargain now, and you could build it up to be light enough to climb well, but strong enough to cope with quite hairy downhills.

I've had a Whyte 46 for a few years, and if I was in the market for something like that again I'd buy the new one with the 36 Talas option, or get the enduro.

In reply to BrianT:

what model of "Six" did you get Brian?

At the moment I'm torn between building up a winter road bike, or lashing out on a full sus XC type MTB after teh summer

In reply to kevin stephens:
I got the one linked to a few posts back, the SE. Picked it up on ebay. Only 3 months old. Bloke bought it and used it on a trip[ to France, but lives in SE and reckoned it was "a bit overkill for the South Downs", so was selling it to buy a 5" full suss xc bike. He's a bike mechanic so probably can get bikes trade. Whatever, it's a bargain, given the new price. If I'd not got that I had eyes on a couple of 06 Enduros, an Ellsworth Moment and an 06 Kona Coiler which were all on at reasonable prices. Oh and a Club Roost XC4 and a K2 Proflex 4500 carbon with spinergy wheelset (old school but so beautiful).

In reply to Styler: I rode a 46 a couple of years back in the peak. Loved it and really liked the Maverick DUC, which I know has its critics.

In reply to ChrisJD: especially as the frame is still under warranty and i would like a newer one..

In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Blimey! How long was the warranty for?

In reply to BrianT: its a lifetime warranty for the original owner, I've got the receipt and owners card so I can prove it. I bought the bike in November 1998 and have done thousands of offroad miles on it. As a stay at home dad with no income I'm relying on it eventually breaking as alumuium alloy will succumb to fatigue eventually the I'll claim for my shiny new marin frs frame under the guarantee

In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Wow. Good on Marin offering that.

In reply to BrianT:



Either good or very stupid !

In reply to BrianT:

Nice one Brian, they make good solid frames I'm still riding a hard tail from 2002 the frame is built proff.

In reply to BrianT:

So when we going riding on your new beast then?

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

I don't want to spoil your plan,but it might not succumb if it never has to cope with above a certain amount of stress,a relative is a metal fatigue specialist and says there is a theory that metals can often keep going indefinately if they never have to cope with stresses above a certain amount. It's just a theory though,i'm not sure if he's totally convinced,he said it's not always true that aluminium things always break eventually. I don't know anything about metal fatigue myself though,except that the Comet airliner in the 60s crashed a lot because it had square windows,which is why modern airliners don't have square doors or windows,he always looks up at the top rounded corners of the door when he gets on to check for cracks just in case,and if he can't see any he's happy,he wouldn't fly if he could see any cracks. Apparently the doors are the first places where cracks would appear. If you ever see a crack make a fuss and tell somebody.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to ChrisJD:

When it arrives, which should be any day now. Woohoo!

In reply to Flatlander: Yeah but as a canuck you would say that

In reply to Jon Greengrass:


http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/products.php?plid=m14b0s259p1261

Magura make hydralic rim brakes if you have no disc brake tabs for fitting disc brakes to.

Tim

In reply to Timmd:

It is a bit more tricky than that. Fatigue limits do apply to steels and other metals but not to aluminium. Also the limits are different for plain and welded specimens, the latter generally being worse due to stress concentrations.

In reply to Horse:

What do you mean by fatigue limits don't apply to aluminium?

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Timmd: I have a degree in materials science of my own thanks..

In reply to Timmd:

I mean that aluminium does not have a fatigue limit. If the stress range (S) is plotted against the number of cycles (N) the resulting SN graph is a straight line. For steels (for example) there is a straight line to the fatigue limit and it then goes horizontal, the change in direction is the fatigue limit.

In reply to Timmd: Did I say I didn't have disc brake tabs?

In reply to Horse:

That's interesting. I know bugger all about mechanics of materials so indulge me a bit here -

Presumably, with S on the Y axis and N on the X, the straight line slopes downwards from the top left (and with steel, eventually goes horizontal.

I also imagine that Aluminium has a much lower value of N for a given stress range than Steel?

In reply to Matt Rees:
Yes


It is the cumulative effect of all the stress ranges that matter out there in the real world of bikes and things. Of course the cumulative damage for aluminium will include stress ranges that would be below the fatigue limit on steel.

In reply to Horse:

I see. In real life, no such thing as a set number cycles at a specific stress range.

So how do you go about calculating/estimating the sum of stress ranges and the likely number of cycles for each stress range? Sounds like a task of horrible statistics.

In reply to Horse:

Interesting. Now I may be wrong, not being a materials scientist, but it was my understanding that fatigue was closely related to lattice dislocations in metals.

If this is the case, what creates the fatigue limit in steel and titanium (but not aluminium)?

In reply to Matt Rees:



I don't the bloke at the next desk does



Correct.

In reply to Glen:

That is getting way too theoretical and fundamental for my liking. Dislocations may play a part, they usually do but also all those metals have different crystal structures which will affect all sorts of things. I can't say I worry about such things when deciding whether to wheel the roadie, hard tail or full bounce out the garage.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

No. I just thought i'd suggest Magura rim brakes if you didn't have,i was unsure if you did or not.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Horse:

Thanks for explaining,that's interesting.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Matt Rees:

Companies like Caterpiller use computer software from people like Safe Technology. I believe Safe Technology are a good company.

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout

http://www.safetechnology.com/news_2001.html#a6

http://www.safetechnology.com/fe-safe_applications.html

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Timmd:

Thanks very much. Next time I need a bit of stress-range/cycle probability calculation doing, I'll be sure to follow your recommendation.....

In reply to Timmd:

I have Magura HS33s on my Rockhopper. They are the best brakes I've ever had. Fit and forget.

New bike has Avid Juicy Sevens with 7" rotors.

In reply to BrianT:
Bike arrived yesterday!

Unfortunately there was nobody in as we were both at work, so it went back to the parcel depot.

Should arrive (again) tomorrow!

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to ride it until after the end of July.