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hello! My name is Emma Aitchison and I am a student at Manchester Metropolitan University currently in my fourth year studying Clothing Design and Technology.
I am working on my Hon's project titled 'Design and Development in Technical Mountaineering Jackets.
Part of my research is just to find out what the user likes/ dislikes about the equipment they are currently using.
these are pretty open questions and all feedback is very welcome!
Consumer Feedback
Name
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Good points?
Bad points?
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
I am working on my Hon's project titled 'Design and Development in Technical Mountaineering Jackets.
Part of my research is just to find out what the user likes/ dislikes about the equipment they are currently using.
these are pretty open questions and all feedback is very welcome!
Consumer Feedback
Name
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Good points?
Bad points?
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
In reply to emma aitchison:
Name - Steve (unsprisingly)
Sports - Climbing, mountaineering, walking, running (although not with this jacket), in summer and winter UK with alpine aspirations
Current hardshell - North Face Stretch Fountainhead or something or other, kindly modelled by Bear Grylls or whatever he's called http://edwindsyam.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/grylls.jpg
Factors - #1 was price. Was massively discounted in TNF outlet, probably because it's bright yellow
#2 - mega-reinforced bits to stop me trashing it
#3 - colour; it's bright yellow
Good - Should be really hardwearing, reasonably well cut with a pretty good hood, nice little touches like laminated reinforced bits on the jacket edges and drawcord holes etc. good internal pockets.
Bad - only external pockets are flimsy mesh things inside the core vents. It's mostly made of stretch XCR which is a waste really. Putting it on the sides and shoulders and leaving the rest normal would have made more sense. Also, full retail price would be extortion; you could get a Rab Latok, a Vapour Rise top and have change for a new cam for the money TNF expect people to pay for it at full price. Also everyone knows TNF are more than a little bit chavvy... Oh, and it's got a (fixed) snow skirt that I haven't got around to chopping off yet.
Would improve cut (its still a bit baggy-American cut), stick a wire in addition to the stiff hood peak, at least one sensible outside pocket. Would probably get rid of some of the reinforced bits, the reinforced fabric is really really stiff and heavy and they've really gone over the top in places. The hood is best with a helmet on, can be a bit scruncy without.
For the last one, yes, yes and yes.
If forced to buy something full-price I'd look for cut and hardwearingness (clearly not a real word...) first. Crux Flak Jacket, the new Rab Latok and the Haglofs Spitz all look really good (but too expensive for a poor student)
Name - Steve (unsprisingly)
Sports - Climbing, mountaineering, walking, running (although not with this jacket), in summer and winter UK with alpine aspirations
Current hardshell - North Face Stretch Fountainhead or something or other, kindly modelled by Bear Grylls or whatever he's called http://edwindsyam.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/grylls.jpg
Factors - #1 was price. Was massively discounted in TNF outlet, probably because it's bright yellow
#2 - mega-reinforced bits to stop me trashing it
#3 - colour; it's bright yellow
Good - Should be really hardwearing, reasonably well cut with a pretty good hood, nice little touches like laminated reinforced bits on the jacket edges and drawcord holes etc. good internal pockets.
Bad - only external pockets are flimsy mesh things inside the core vents. It's mostly made of stretch XCR which is a waste really. Putting it on the sides and shoulders and leaving the rest normal would have made more sense. Also, full retail price would be extortion; you could get a Rab Latok, a Vapour Rise top and have change for a new cam for the money TNF expect people to pay for it at full price. Also everyone knows TNF are more than a little bit chavvy... Oh, and it's got a (fixed) snow skirt that I haven't got around to chopping off yet.
Would improve cut (its still a bit baggy-American cut), stick a wire in addition to the stiff hood peak, at least one sensible outside pocket. Would probably get rid of some of the reinforced bits, the reinforced fabric is really really stiff and heavy and they've really gone over the top in places. The hood is best with a helmet on, can be a bit scruncy without.
For the last one, yes, yes and yes.
If forced to buy something full-price I'd look for cut and hardwearingness (clearly not a real word...) first. Crux Flak Jacket, the new Rab Latok and the Haglofs Spitz all look really good (but too expensive for a poor student)
In reply to emma aitchison:
Another Steve
Climbing, scrambling, walking, etc. UK & Alps
RAB Latok alpine
Fair fit, good hood, good name, good fabric, goodish pockets, very light & on discount!
Main zip too flimsy
To improve - ah where to start! Well apart from the obvious stuff like, lighter, tougher, better breathability. lower maintenance etc. (simultaneously please!) How about:
* More personalised fitting
* Some (easier) way to tell when the jacket needs proofing or retiring (can it change colour for example?)
* a proper wind & waterproof zip or some alternative (so i don't have to mess with a zip AND velcro whilst wearing gloves [often the sort that stick nicely to velcro ]
* pocket liners that don't immediately gum themselves to anything wet as you try to put it inside (I'm thinking mapcases here). Actually, on that one, how about 'pockets' that are just a zip in the main body that you can reach through and put stuff in a nice large pouch within?
* the perfect hood: Obviously adjustable as usual, but my complaint is that you often can't cinch it up tight without the brim or the peak coming too low & obscuring your view - would be nice to be able to do the 'polar explorer' look with a sorta tunnel hood..
* wrist tighteners (or whatever you call them) that can be operated by teeth (tightened and loosened) or at the very least big gloves.
Oh, and yes, yes & yes
Steve
Another Steve
Climbing, scrambling, walking, etc. UK & Alps
RAB Latok alpine
Fair fit, good hood, good name, good fabric, goodish pockets, very light & on discount!
Main zip too flimsy
To improve - ah where to start! Well apart from the obvious stuff like, lighter, tougher, better breathability. lower maintenance etc. (simultaneously please!) How about:
* More personalised fitting
* Some (easier) way to tell when the jacket needs proofing or retiring (can it change colour for example?)
* a proper wind & waterproof zip or some alternative (so i don't have to mess with a zip AND velcro whilst wearing gloves [often the sort that stick nicely to velcro ]
* pocket liners that don't immediately gum themselves to anything wet as you try to put it inside (I'm thinking mapcases here). Actually, on that one, how about 'pockets' that are just a zip in the main body that you can reach through and put stuff in a nice large pouch within?
* the perfect hood: Obviously adjustable as usual, but my complaint is that you often can't cinch it up tight without the brim or the peak coming too low & obscuring your view - would be nice to be able to do the 'polar explorer' look with a sorta tunnel hood..
* wrist tighteners (or whatever you call them) that can be operated by teeth (tightened and loosened) or at the very least big gloves.
Oh, and yes, yes & yes
Steve
In reply to emma aitchison: Name Daniel Armitage.
Rock climbing, ice climbing, cross country skiing all in Norway.
Berghaus paclite
Was reasonably inexpensive compared to the competition. Fit was most important as at 6ft 3 its hard to get long enough sleeves and a fit that doesn't lead to the jacket being pulled up over your waist when ice climbing.
Also the berghaus jacket had a great hood, big enough for a helmet and with a wired peak, the cut is quite slim too which is great as you can see what you are taking off your harness when you look down!
It is paclite so its not going to be bombproof in the long run, but one thing that could improve it is to reinforce the cuffs in some way. They started to frey at the hem after a very short time and are now quite hairy!
i use a harness, helmet and rucsack with the jacket.
Rock climbing, ice climbing, cross country skiing all in Norway.
Berghaus paclite
Was reasonably inexpensive compared to the competition. Fit was most important as at 6ft 3 its hard to get long enough sleeves and a fit that doesn't lead to the jacket being pulled up over your waist when ice climbing.
Also the berghaus jacket had a great hood, big enough for a helmet and with a wired peak, the cut is quite slim too which is great as you can see what you are taking off your harness when you look down!
It is paclite so its not going to be bombproof in the long run, but one thing that could improve it is to reinforce the cuffs in some way. They started to frey at the hem after a very short time and are now quite hairy!
i use a harness, helmet and rucsack with the jacket.
In reply to emma aitchison:
Consumer Feedback
Name: Ian Jackson
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc): Alpine climbing, Rock Climbing, Ice climbing,
Current Hardshell jacket being used? Rab - Latok Alpine Jacket
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length) Price, i got it cheap, its also pretty light, its not black!!
Good points? Light
Bad points? Leaks in stormy weather, Its not breathable enough
What would you like to improve in your jacket? Thumb hooks, a storm flap over zip,
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ? yes to all. No Helmet when rock climbing.
Consumer Feedback
Name: Ian Jackson
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc): Alpine climbing, Rock Climbing, Ice climbing,
Current Hardshell jacket being used? Rab - Latok Alpine Jacket
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length) Price, i got it cheap, its also pretty light, its not black!!
Good points? Light
Bad points? Leaks in stormy weather, Its not breathable enough
What would you like to improve in your jacket? Thumb hooks, a storm flap over zip,
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ? yes to all. No Helmet when rock climbing.
In reply to emma aitchison:
>Waterproofs your Opinions!
Nasty sweaty things that are nowhere near as breathable as claimed by manufacturers.
Davie
>Waterproofs your Opinions!
Nasty sweaty things that are nowhere near as breathable as claimed by manufacturers.
Davie
In reply to emma aitchison:
Name
Ross McGibbon
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Walking UK & Europe. Winter climbing UK
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Inglesport knee length old fashioned cagoule
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Price. Got it made extra long to keep rain off my bum when not wearing waterproof trousers (hate them).
Good points?
Long. Keeps bum dry. Oldskool style!
Bad points?
None really
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Nothing really. I only wear it when it is raining so that's not that often. Wish you could still buy longish cags.
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
Yes, yes, yes.
If it is cold enough for winter climbing I don't need a cag on. If it is wet enough for a cag, I try & avoid rock climbing - so rarely wear it to climb in.
Name
Ross McGibbon
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Walking UK & Europe. Winter climbing UK
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Inglesport knee length old fashioned cagoule
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Price. Got it made extra long to keep rain off my bum when not wearing waterproof trousers (hate them).
Good points?
Long. Keeps bum dry. Oldskool style!
Bad points?
None really
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Nothing really. I only wear it when it is raining so that's not that often. Wish you could still buy longish cags.
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
Yes, yes, yes.
If it is cold enough for winter climbing I don't need a cag on. If it is wet enough for a cag, I try & avoid rock climbing - so rarely wear it to climb in.
In reply to emma aitchison:
Yes, yes and yes.
>
> Consumer Feedback:
>
> Name: Tim Sugars
>
> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
> Climbing summer and winter, mtneering, scrambleing, siberian husky raceing scotland, uk, europe, N & S america, Africe etc
>
> Current Hardshell jacket being used?
>
> Haglof pac light, paramo aspira, mtn Equip changabang
> Consumer Feedback:
>
> Name: Tim Sugars
>
> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
> Climbing summer and winter, mtneering, scrambleing, siberian husky raceing scotland, uk, europe, N & S america, Africe etc
>
> Current Hardshell jacket being used?
>
> Haglof pac light, paramo aspira, mtn Equip changabang
> What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
> (Brand, features, style/colour, length)
> Cost, weight, multi use (Haglof) Breathality, weather proofing (paramo), bloody hard wearing..ish Changabang
> Good points?
> (Brand, features, style/colour, length)
> Cost, weight, multi use (Haglof) Breathality, weather proofing (paramo), bloody hard wearing..ish Changabang
> Good points?
> Haglof..weight Paramo, comfort, Changanang percieved toughness
> Bad points?
> Bad points?
> Haglof..small pocket Paramo weight and hood Changabang..over complex pockets,
> What would you like to improve in your jacket?
> Two simple large pockets...preferably breathable/venting above the hieght of a harness,Large hood that tightens down over both head and helmet offerign the same levels of protection around the face for winter, compatable with snow goggles. Longish sleeves with simple velcro fasternings. No sleeve pocket...what the hell is it for!Reinforced shoulders...do they need to breath when most of the time I wear a rucksack over 'em. Strip of spare outer material ready for repairing those little rips caused by getting pished and falling into barb wire/ jumping fences etc
No storm flap just weather proof zip. No arm pit vents.> Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
Yes, yes and yes.
In reply to emma aitchison:
Name: Gareth
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Skiing and climbing
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Arcteryx theta ar
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Brand, price (ebay :P)
Good points?
proshell, fits, arcteryx's usual features
Bad points?
tad too baggy around the body could do with being tighter, but had to buy large for arm legnth.
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
tighter cut, single legnth not a drop back, stow away hood, sleeve pocket.
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
yes, hood fits helmet, harness works well with jacket despite it being baggy.
Name: Gareth
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Skiing and climbing
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Arcteryx theta ar
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Brand, price (ebay :P)
Good points?
proshell, fits, arcteryx's usual features
Bad points?
tad too baggy around the body could do with being tighter, but had to buy large for arm legnth.
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
tighter cut, single legnth not a drop back, stow away hood, sleeve pocket.
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
yes, hood fits helmet, harness works well with jacket despite it being baggy.
Cheers folks, yeah plan for final project is to construct the 'perfect'hardshell for uk mountaineering (tho we all know that'll never happen!)but whats good for a 5'5 guy won't be the same for one thats 6'5!
but all input very welcome!
emma
but all input very welcome!
emma
In reply to emma aitchison:
Name
Mr Ed
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Fellrunning, climbing (winter and summer), Walking. Mainly UK.
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Rab Latok
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
The brand I respect so that was a bonus. Other makes I looked at were Paramo and mountain equipment.
Features- I liked the length of the jacket. Many climbing style jackets are cut very short (alpine style) the latok seemed to have a good balance between front length and mobility while still having a scooped tail. The pockets are high so harnesses don't interfere. The cut seems to suit my body shape better than other makes on the market (paramo was shocking). Though the jacket still rides up when arms are above my head (A real pain, but its the jacket that rides up least). Hood is ok, fits over a helmet which was important and there are plenty of pockets in and out. Not convinced I need 4 on the front but nevermind.
Colour- Yes its important! Kit takes ages to wear out so if you go for a jacket with a colour you don't like you're going to have to put up with it for a long time. Ended up getting it in black when I would have preffered red. The colours ok but manufacturers seem to think everyone wants black these days so end up looking like a ninja.
Event fabric was a selling point too being reputedly better than goretex.
I think fit/cut was the most important feature of the jacket for me. Though price does play a part because if it wasn't an object then everyone would buy arcteryx!
Good points?
Good length
Lots of pockets
Good hood
Good fabric
Double zippered front feels really secure (with my old waterproof the velcro went after a few years and always ended up blowing open.
Light weight but doesn't feel like a crisp packet.
Bad points?
Rides up with arms outstretched
Zips were troublesome to begin with (hard to move) and the rubber on the waterproof zips has started to come away making the zips (and pockets) not waterproof.
Water enters pockets in driving rain
Event fabric has been good but have some damage to the jacket from the inside after a short amount of time wheras it took an age for my other jacket to get into a similar state.
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Better cut- (no riding up)
Slightly longer in the body (1 inch maybe?)
Drop the 2 handsized outside pockets, keep the two larger pockets on the outside but make bigger with waterproof zips and stormflaps.
Have two internal zipped pockets (as opposed to just the one zipped one in my model.
Thicker velcro fastening straps on the arms (like the latok alpine ones)
Put more durable fabric on the arms and shoulders (believe they've done this with the new model)
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
Yes to all three.
Name
Mr Ed
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
Fellrunning, climbing (winter and summer), Walking. Mainly UK.
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Rab Latok
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
The brand I respect so that was a bonus. Other makes I looked at were Paramo and mountain equipment.
Features- I liked the length of the jacket. Many climbing style jackets are cut very short (alpine style) the latok seemed to have a good balance between front length and mobility while still having a scooped tail. The pockets are high so harnesses don't interfere. The cut seems to suit my body shape better than other makes on the market (paramo was shocking). Though the jacket still rides up when arms are above my head (A real pain, but its the jacket that rides up least). Hood is ok, fits over a helmet which was important and there are plenty of pockets in and out. Not convinced I need 4 on the front but nevermind.
Colour- Yes its important! Kit takes ages to wear out so if you go for a jacket with a colour you don't like you're going to have to put up with it for a long time. Ended up getting it in black when I would have preffered red. The colours ok but manufacturers seem to think everyone wants black these days so end up looking like a ninja.
Event fabric was a selling point too being reputedly better than goretex.
I think fit/cut was the most important feature of the jacket for me. Though price does play a part because if it wasn't an object then everyone would buy arcteryx!
Good points?
Good length
Lots of pockets
Good hood
Good fabric
Double zippered front feels really secure (with my old waterproof the velcro went after a few years and always ended up blowing open.
Light weight but doesn't feel like a crisp packet.
Bad points?
Rides up with arms outstretched
Zips were troublesome to begin with (hard to move) and the rubber on the waterproof zips has started to come away making the zips (and pockets) not waterproof.
Water enters pockets in driving rain
Event fabric has been good but have some damage to the jacket from the inside after a short amount of time wheras it took an age for my other jacket to get into a similar state.
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Better cut- (no riding up)
Slightly longer in the body (1 inch maybe?)
Drop the 2 handsized outside pockets, keep the two larger pockets on the outside but make bigger with waterproof zips and stormflaps.
Have two internal zipped pockets (as opposed to just the one zipped one in my model.
Thicker velcro fastening straps on the arms (like the latok alpine ones)
Put more durable fabric on the arms and shoulders (believe they've done this with the new model)
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
Yes to all three.
In reply to emma aitchison:
Name. Tom
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
UK: Climbing, walking, biking, canoeing
Europe: Climbing/skiing
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Mostly Paramo Aspira, but also KIMM paclite (biking), Gill Drycag (canoeing). Have owned Goretex XCR (Karrimor Summit) and Paramo Cuzco.
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Aspira: Breathability, venting, fit, articulated sleeves, warmth, hood, pockets.
Good points?
Very breathable, many vents, waterproof, warm, good hood, good pockets
Bad points?
£250+, don't make XS
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Make XS, cheaper
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
All of the above. Sometimes at the same time.
Name. Tom
Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
UK: Climbing, walking, biking, canoeing
Europe: Climbing/skiing
Current Hardshell jacket being used?
Mostly Paramo Aspira, but also KIMM paclite (biking), Gill Drycag (canoeing). Have owned Goretex XCR (Karrimor Summit) and Paramo Cuzco.
What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
(Brand, features, style/colour, length)
Aspira: Breathability, venting, fit, articulated sleeves, warmth, hood, pockets.
Good points?
Very breathable, many vents, waterproof, warm, good hood, good pockets
Bad points?
£250+, don't make XS
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
Make XS, cheaper
Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
All of the above. Sometimes at the same time.
In reply to mr_sceptical: Should add, I'm 5'1" so not exactly average!
In reply to emma aitchison:
Tom Ripley
Helmet compatable Hood, weight, cut for movement, pockets which accessable whilst wearing a harness.
Very light, welded seems, good hood, well cut, accessable pockets, realitively breathable
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
a tighter cut.
yes yes and yes.
> Name
Tom Ripley
>
> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
>
Rock, Winter and Alpine Climbing. Worldwide.> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
>
> Current Hardshell jacket being used?
>
Patagonia Grade VI>
>
> What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
> What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
Helmet compatable Hood, weight, cut for movement, pockets which accessable whilst wearing a harness.
>
> Good points?
> Good points?
Very light, welded seems, good hood, well cut, accessable pockets, realitively breathable
>
> Bad points?
> very light (scared i'm going to rip it!), baggy cut, naff colour (navy)
>> Bad points?
> very light (scared i'm going to rip it!), baggy cut, naff colour (navy)
What would you like to improve in your jacket?
a tighter cut.
>
> Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
> Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
yes yes and yes.
In reply to emma aitchison:
Makes you like you are a dog walker. heavy and needs reproofing.
maybe and a crotch strap and make the hood slightly bigger.
yes yes and yes.
>
> Name Tom Ripley
>
> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
>
> see previous post.
> Name Tom Ripley
>
> Outdoor sports you pursue and where (UK/ Europe etc)
>
> see previous post.
> Current Hardshell jacket being used?
>
Paramo Velez Adventure Smock>
>
> What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
> Cut, Hood, Pockets, Bright Colour, breathability.
>
> Good points?
> Cut, Hood, Pockets, Bright Colour, breathability - very breathable. Ran down from Great Gable in horizontal rain, without feeling hot of sweaty, a first for me an a waterproof.
> What factors did you consider when purchasing your jacket?
> Cut, Hood, Pockets, Bright Colour, breathability.
>
> Good points?
> Cut, Hood, Pockets, Bright Colour, breathability - very breathable. Ran down from Great Gable in horizontal rain, without feeling hot of sweaty, a first for me an a waterproof.
>
> Bad points?
> Bad points?
Makes you like you are a dog walker. heavy and needs reproofing.
>
> What would you like to improve in your jacket?
> What would you like to improve in your jacket?
maybe and a crotch strap and make the hood slightly bigger.
>
> Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
> Do you use a harness, helmet, rucksack ?
yes yes and yes.
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