UKC

This is sort of a spin off from a certain thread involving a certain Scotsman on a certain hard trad route but I don't actually want to discuss that.
There was a comment that Mr McLeod's estimation for the sport grade of the route seemed low as one of the existing sections already had a similar grade. Now as the French grade is for the overall difficulty of a route based on the strenuous-ness, technicality, sustained-ness etc then what effect does doubling the length of the route have if there is a really good rest in the middle?
For instance running two 20m pitches of f6a together is obviously harder than climbing them as two separate pitches because you don't have a rest at a belay, is it harder than climbing one 40m pitch graded 6a?
If the whole route consists of lots of mini-rests then does extending it by an arbitrary distance make a difference for the grade as the french grade is for the easiest sequence which will contain an appropriate use of the rests? (providing the rests are actually good not a silly bat hang or kneebar requiring extra grippy trousers).

Sorry if the answer is really obvious but I don't really 'get' sport grades.

cheers

Mike

In reply to Reach>Talent: Good question! I'd been pondering a similar thing as I've got a 30ish move bouldering traverse that is worth about f6c+. If I get strong enough to do two laps on it then what would that be worth in real money...?

In reply to Reach>Talent: If the whole route consists of lots of mini-rests then does extending it by an arbitrary distance make a difference for the grade as the french grade is for the easiest sequence

You never fully recover on mini-rests if climbing around your limit. Combining two pitches at top end 6a would most likely nudge it as a single pitch to low 6b reflecting that greater endurance (of a typical 6b climber)is required to complete the route.

In reply to Simon Lee:
"You never fully recover on mini-rests if climbing around your limit. Combining two pitches at top end 6a would most likely nudge it as a single pitch to low 6b reflecting that greater endurance (of a typical 6b climber)is required to complete the route."

But you could if you spent long enough resting. But yes i get your point! :P

In reply to james oswald:
>

Generally unless they're complete hands free rests there comes a point when you're not getting anything back and you start to get worse.
How long to rest on certain sport routes is much debated in certain circles, and there have been occasions when stopwatches have been spotted...

In reply to Serpico: there comes a point when you're not getting anything back and you start to get worse.


Unless you're Al Murray.

In reply to Serpico:
By really good rest I inferred "no hands". Maybe I shouldn't have.

In reply to Serpico:

Especially if it is in the Grand Grotte

In reply to Reach>Talent:

rather cruelly if you got a total no hander between the sections, your hypothetical route would probably be f6a.

this is close to the situation on that route which shall not be named, which is probably why the grade didn't change much.

In reply to Simon Lee:

The pub landlord?
All hail the ale!

In reply to Reach>Talent: Not a hundred percent sure about how the grading works but from experience sport climbing in France, I found long routes (30-35 metres) graded 6a in the local topos to be technically nearer 5+ whereas there were a couple of short routes (10-12 metres) we tried at 6a that were absolutely nails and felt more like 6b. This might have been just because I'm not consistent but it would appear that a longer sustained route gets a higher grade for the same technical difficulty as a short one.

In reply to teflonpete:

it seems obvious to me that a long easy route can be graded the same as a short route with a harder crux. some will find one easier than the other and vice versa. it works all through the grades. there have been articles in france about routes and breaking them down into parts. a route grade up to a point and then a boulder problem then a route grade again all equals another grade. if there is a big rest in the middle of a route then it has to be taken into consideration but its not exact is it. intresting though.