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Can bouldering videos ever be made which will be inspirational to non climbers or climbers who aren't already boulderers ?
To me they are like videos of someone playing chess. Clearly there is a lot of skill there but it really isn't an inspiring spectacle.
To me they are like videos of someone playing chess. Clearly there is a lot of skill there but it really isn't an inspiring spectacle.
In reply to GrahamD:
Yes. The UK ones like Stick it or Winter Sessions really motivate me to get my arse in gear and get out and climb. While the foreign ones like Dosage, No Comment and Autoroute show me what I should be doing and give loads of psyche to get out on the road and climb.
Yes. The UK ones like Stick it or Winter Sessions really motivate me to get my arse in gear and get out and climb. While the foreign ones like Dosage, No Comment and Autoroute show me what I should be doing and give loads of psyche to get out on the road and climb.
In reply to GrahamD: Have you seen Dosage V?
In reply to Jon Redshaw:
From your profile you are already a boulderer, though. Do you think these videos inspire in the same way as, say, a surfing video or a snow boarding video (I do neither but can find these videos inspiring).
From your profile you are already a boulderer, though. Do you think these videos inspire in the same way as, say, a surfing video or a snow boarding video (I do neither but can find these videos inspiring).
In reply to GrahamD: Have never seen any surfing or Snowboarding video so can't comment. Find the Trad dvd's interesting, but not really motivating even thou I do do a fair bit of Trad. The bouldering DVD's show you in the purest form what is possible. Yeh, they might not be great for non-climbers, but that's not who they are aimed at.
In reply to GrahamD:
Boring as watching a really boring thing!
Chris
PS I find bouldering boring too so its hardly surprising!
Boring as watching a really boring thing!
Chris
PS I find bouldering boring too so its hardly surprising!
In reply to Jon Redshaw:
I accept that bouldering distills climbing down to the point of exploring what is possible, but do you think that videos actually show that ? One sloper being hung looks much like another.
I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ?
> The bouldering DVD's show you in the purest form what is possible.
I accept that bouldering distills climbing down to the point of exploring what is possible, but do you think that videos actually show that ? One sloper being hung looks much like another.
I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ?
In reply to Liam Copley:
Only if its been on in the background in a shop !
> (In reply to GrahamD) Have you seen Dosage V?
Only if its been on in the background in a shop !
In reply to GrahamD:
"I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ? "
I think it would be difficult for Clarkson to even get to the finish.
"I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ? "
I think it would be difficult for Clarkson to even get to the finish.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I boulder a fair bit but find watching it very dull - particulalry indoors. I took partner to that national bouldering thing at the Outdoors show a few years back. Popped in watched with novelty interest for 5 minutes, gazed blankly for another 5, stuck it out a bit more then remembered I'd seen some some paint drying on the other side of the building.
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> Boring as watching a really boring thing!
>
>
> Chris
>
> PS I find bouldering boring too so its hardly surprising!
>
> Boring as watching a really boring thing!
>
>
> Chris
>
> PS I find bouldering boring too so its hardly surprising!
I boulder a fair bit but find watching it very dull - particulalry indoors. I took partner to that national bouldering thing at the Outdoors show a few years back. Popped in watched with novelty interest for 5 minutes, gazed blankly for another 5, stuck it out a bit more then remembered I'd seen some some paint drying on the other side of the building.
In reply to GrahamD:
Personally, I think it depends entirely on the quality of the content.
I found the footage of highball bouldering in 'The Sharp End' jaw dropping. This was due to the dramatic lines that were climbed, the build up (i.e. showing some of the emotions the climber was going through whilst attempting it, her relief afterwards, her husbands concerns and ultimately his faith in her eventual success etc. etc.) and the high quality of the footage which really captured the drama.
I think most people, climbers, boulderers or otherwise, could enjoy that.
I think with a 'flat' presentation any climbing footage could be boring to the non climber.
Personally, I think it depends entirely on the quality of the content.
I found the footage of highball bouldering in 'The Sharp End' jaw dropping. This was due to the dramatic lines that were climbed, the build up (i.e. showing some of the emotions the climber was going through whilst attempting it, her relief afterwards, her husbands concerns and ultimately his faith in her eventual success etc. etc.) and the high quality of the footage which really captured the drama.
I think most people, climbers, boulderers or otherwise, could enjoy that.
I think with a 'flat' presentation any climbing footage could be boring to the non climber.
In reply to GrahamD: Compared to alpine, mountain trad, winter mountaineering or a good hillwalking video bouldering films are a as boring as hell.
They may well be inspirational to those who exclusively boulder but in my experience those folk are pretty boring too.
For me, a group of bare chested beany wearers poncing around on a boulder is extremely pretentious, especially in somewhere like the Pass where they are surrounded by proper climbing and mountains.
Bouldering is climbing for folk who don't like climbing or have little interest in the outdoors.
There, I've said it.
<runs for cover>
They may well be inspirational to those who exclusively boulder but in my experience those folk are pretty boring too.
For me, a group of bare chested beany wearers poncing around on a boulder is extremely pretentious, especially in somewhere like the Pass where they are surrounded by proper climbing and mountains.
Bouldering is climbing for folk who don't like climbing or have little interest in the outdoors.
There, I've said it.
<runs for cover>
In reply to GrahamD:
Some of the bouldering videos are good but what I find the problem is that people underestimate the difficult as the top boulderers in the video make it look so easy.
For instance I think Dave Graham made this look alot easier than it is.
youtube.com/watch?v=uo2RsX2lASg&
James
Some of the bouldering videos are good but what I find the problem is that people underestimate the difficult as the top boulderers in the video make it look so easy.
For instance I think Dave Graham made this look alot easier than it is.
youtube.com/watch?v=uo2RsX2lASg&
James
In reply to Chris Craggs:
You're undoubtedly correct in that example so perhaps another example is called for.
I thought the bouldering shown on the Echo Wall DVD was also very entertaining and was definitely not highball. The footage bounced along with good momentum to it (i.e. it didn't dwell on individual problems for ages), it clearly showed Dave putting in maximum effort on something that was obviously (to anybody IMO) bloody hard, set in some absolutely stunning scenery.
It also rather humourously (sp?) captured some of Daves character, with him letting out a blood curdling scottish war-cry every time he slipped off!!
A good watch in my book.
You're undoubtedly correct in that example so perhaps another example is called for.
I thought the bouldering shown on the Echo Wall DVD was also very entertaining and was definitely not highball. The footage bounced along with good momentum to it (i.e. it didn't dwell on individual problems for ages), it clearly showed Dave putting in maximum effort on something that was obviously (to anybody IMO) bloody hard, set in some absolutely stunning scenery.
It also rather humourously (sp?) captured some of Daves character, with him letting out a blood curdling scottish war-cry every time he slipped off!!
A good watch in my book.
In reply to chris_j_s:
Isn't what you are sying here, though, is it needs a human interest story to make it interesting. The bouldering action alone is not enough ?
Isn't what you are sying here, though, is it needs a human interest story to make it interesting. The bouldering action alone is not enough ?
In reply to GrahamD:
Yes, that is precisely what I'm saying. Your question was:
"Can bouldering videos ever be made which will be inspirational to non climbers or climbers who aren't already boulderers ?"
My answer is "Yes, they can".
You didn't specify that it wasn't allowed to have a human interest element! I think a lot of climbing films would be dull to the non-climber without that.
Yes, that is precisely what I'm saying. Your question was:
"Can bouldering videos ever be made which will be inspirational to non climbers or climbers who aren't already boulderers ?"
My answer is "Yes, they can".
You didn't specify that it wasn't allowed to have a human interest element! I think a lot of climbing films would be dull to the non-climber without that.
In reply to GrahamD:
That's a ridiculous notion as the bouldering format wouldn't be possible.
Jeremy Tw*tson "I've got to drive to the top of this HUGE gorge, whilst he has to get to the top of that TINY boulder".
The idea was that they have to gain the same altitude by different routes!
>
> I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ?
> I know the same can be applied to other climbing videos or skiing videos or whatever but at least these tend to look more impressive to the non expert viewer. By way of illustration, can you imagine the Top Gear Verdon video with Leo Houlding done in a bouldering format ?
That's a ridiculous notion as the bouldering format wouldn't be possible.
Jeremy Tw*tson "I've got to drive to the top of this HUGE gorge, whilst he has to get to the top of that TINY boulder".
The idea was that they have to gain the same altitude by different routes!
In reply to GrahamD: I use Dosage 1 footage of Dave Graham climbing a v12 at the Buttermilks to illustrate to my students the importance of not giving up on something which initially seems impossible. Not sure if they find it inspirational exactly, but they do think he's cool.
In reply to slacky:
So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
> That's a ridiculous notion as the bouldering format wouldn't be possible.
So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
In reply to Gilles:
Do you think your students (what age BYW ?) would be more inspired by, say, DaveMc's efforts on E11 ?
Do you think your students (what age BYW ?) would be more inspired by, say, DaveMc's efforts on E11 ?
In reply to GrahamD:
I find bouldering videos incredibly boring, so I don't watch them. In fact I've never seen one. But they are boring.
I find bouldering videos incredibly boring, so I don't watch them. In fact I've never seen one. But they are boring.
In reply to GrahamD:
Saw this very recently and it might fit the bill.
'Tour De Bloc'
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/tour-de-blocs-trailer/1847855691
I thought it highlighted the social and fun aspect of bouldering, as well as showing that you can get to some beautiful locations. I found it pretty inspiring, but I do boulder fairly regularly, so not positive it will encourage or inspire newbies to the game.
Saw this very recently and it might fit the bill.
'Tour De Bloc'
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/tour-de-blocs-trailer/1847855691
I thought it highlighted the social and fun aspect of bouldering, as well as showing that you can get to some beautiful locations. I found it pretty inspiring, but I do boulder fairly regularly, so not positive it will encourage or inspire newbies to the game.
In reply to jon:
Wee bit closed-minded there?
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> In fact I've never seen one. But they are boring.
>
> In fact I've never seen one. But they are boring.
Wee bit closed-minded there?
The Bouldering in the Dosage series and Rampage is very inspiring, I've shown it to my friends who don't climb and they were amazed. However, I get very bored while trad climbing, let alone watching it!
Although to be fair, I find bouldering videos with Chris Sharma in them a lot more exciting than watching any other climber.
eg: youtube.com/watch?v=pr_Yta8G7nc&
eg: youtube.com/watch?v=pr_Yta8G7nc&
In reply to Strife:
>However, I get very bored while trad climbing, let alone watching it!
Maybe you have the attention span of a goldfish
>However, I get very bored while trad climbing, let alone watching it!
Maybe you have the attention span of a goldfish
In reply to Strife:
Irrespective of whether you enjoy trad climbing, its hard not get some sort of 'wow' reaction from, say, leo Holding climbing El Cap then doing a bungee from the top on his climbing ropes, or Alaine Robert climbing a sky scraper.
As I say, I can see why boulderers might watch bouldering films (ditto sailors watching sailing videos etc.) but I would be surprised if most bouleders didn't find videos of some other activities interesting.
Irrespective of whether you enjoy trad climbing, its hard not get some sort of 'wow' reaction from, say, leo Holding climbing El Cap then doing a bungee from the top on his climbing ropes, or Alaine Robert climbing a sky scraper.
As I say, I can see why boulderers might watch bouldering films (ditto sailors watching sailing videos etc.) but I would be surprised if most bouleders didn't find videos of some other activities interesting.
In reply to Strife: At 1:17 that video features the best noise I have ever heard a climber make.
I said the recent Tyler Landman video was inspirational as he's clearly so good, not 'cos of what he's climbing. It inspires me to work hard and (try) to get my technique to that level.
I like bouldering, but I see it as, essentially, training for climbing more interesting and higher things. I can't relate to people wanting to spend an entire holiday bouldering and I wouldn't spend money on a DVD of bouldering.
I like bouldering, but I see it as, essentially, training for climbing more interesting and higher things. I can't relate to people wanting to spend an entire holiday bouldering and I wouldn't spend money on a DVD of bouldering.
In reply to GrahamD:
I don't particularly care, what I was pointing out was that you're example of Holding & Emmet trying to scale a boulder problem as opposed to climbing out of the gorge they were in would not have worked _for that particular challenge_ as the whole point was for car v's man to get from the bottom of the gorge to the top.
Thus your supposition that instead of climbing the walls of the gorge they could have climbed a boulder problem would have completely invalidated the whole "challenge" the particular section of the program was about.
Fool!
> (In reply to slacky)
>
> [...]
>
>
> So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
>
> [...]
>
>
> So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
I don't particularly care, what I was pointing out was that you're example of Holding & Emmet trying to scale a boulder problem as opposed to climbing out of the gorge they were in would not have worked _for that particular challenge_ as the whole point was for car v's man to get from the bottom of the gorge to the top.
Thus your supposition that instead of climbing the walls of the gorge they could have climbed a boulder problem would have completely invalidated the whole "challenge" the particular section of the program was about.
Fool!
In reply to GrahamD: I know what you mean. I made a boudering video after a trip to Font. I spent about 1 month editing it and was pleased with the result. The climbing is lousy, but I have not shown it to any non climber who wasn't impressed. However, I am not sure what they were impressed at - the lousy climbing (which to them must still seem pretty cool) or the snazzy editing tricks I used.
Ho hum.
PS I do think that climbing is one of the dullest sports to watch on TV / video unless it is someone doing a climb you aspire to or have done yourself.
Ho hum.
PS I do think that climbing is one of the dullest sports to watch on TV / video unless it is someone doing a climb you aspire to or have done yourself.
In reply to james oswald:
The jump at the end would be a bit more interesting too lol.
The jump at the end would be a bit more interesting too lol.
In reply to GrahamD:
Even for climbers, climbing films often need 'something else'. The element of danger in 'Echo Wall' or 'On Sight' more than makes that difference for me. But without this, bouldering or for that matter, redpoint attempts of sport routes can be found wanting. But that 'something else' doesn't have to be danger. As mentioned above, the bouldering element of 'Echo Wall' is brilliant, because the human interest factor is present.
Similarly, Stone Country's 'Boulder Scotland' movie is fascinating for the discussion with John Watson. And for the most beautiful bouldering movie ever, try Big Up Productions 'Tis The Season': simply stunning.
Mark
> (In reply to slacky)
>
> [...]
>
>
> So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
>
> [...]
>
>
> So what bouldering format would be suitable for prime time TV viewers ?
Even for climbers, climbing films often need 'something else'. The element of danger in 'Echo Wall' or 'On Sight' more than makes that difference for me. But without this, bouldering or for that matter, redpoint attempts of sport routes can be found wanting. But that 'something else' doesn't have to be danger. As mentioned above, the bouldering element of 'Echo Wall' is brilliant, because the human interest factor is present.
Similarly, Stone Country's 'Boulder Scotland' movie is fascinating for the discussion with John Watson. And for the most beautiful bouldering movie ever, try Big Up Productions 'Tis The Season': simply stunning.
Mark
In reply to slacky:
Mr T ! can I have your autograph ? Whilst at it, can you invent any scenario you like where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing. Cars are optional.
> Fool!
Mr T ! can I have your autograph ? Whilst at it, can you invent any scenario you like where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing. Cars are optional.
In reply to Mark HW:
If anyone has a copy of 'Tis The Season' I'm happy to give it a view to see whether I'm inspired to take up a beanie !
If anyone has a copy of 'Tis The Season' I'm happy to give it a view to see whether I'm inspired to take up a beanie !
In reply to GrahamD:
It's on their website Graham: www.bigupproductions.com
Not even too many beanies... On that note, maybe I'll burn mine.
Mark.
> (In reply to Mark HW)
>
> If anyone has a copy of 'Tis The Season' I'm happy to give it a view to see whether I'm inspired to take up a beanie !
>
> If anyone has a copy of 'Tis The Season' I'm happy to give it a view to see whether I'm inspired to take up a beanie !
It's on their website Graham: www.bigupproductions.com
Not even too many beanies... On that note, maybe I'll burn mine.
Mark.
In reply to GrahamD: And as a result, wasn't it way better than most bouldering films?
In reply to GrahamD:
Of course, but my signature comes at a price, one glass of non-spiked milk
I'm not going to bother about inventing a scenario where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing because....
a) I don't care for "prime time" TV, its aimed at morons who don't think for themselves. If they wanted something thought provoking they could go and watch one of the many Discovery channels/David Attenborough documentaries etc.
b) I don't care if people don't like something or other such as bouldering (or video's thereof).
Each to their own, fine you don't like them thats your choice, no one forces you to watch them and I see no need to develop a format that you (and possibly others) do find inspiring.
I don't think Anthony Goldsworthy's snowball sculptures are that interesting or inspiring (see http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/press-releases/greenpeace-backs-wonderfu... ), but I'm not going to ask for someone to make them more interesting for me.
> (In reply to slacky)
>
>
> [...]
>
> Mr T ! can I have your autograph ? Whilst at it, can you invent any scenario you like where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing. Cars are optional.
>
>
> [...]
>
> Mr T ! can I have your autograph ? Whilst at it, can you invent any scenario you like where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing. Cars are optional.
Of course, but my signature comes at a price, one glass of non-spiked milk
I'm not going to bother about inventing a scenario where a bouldering video would make good prime time TV viewing because....
a) I don't care for "prime time" TV, its aimed at morons who don't think for themselves. If they wanted something thought provoking they could go and watch one of the many Discovery channels/David Attenborough documentaries etc.
b) I don't care if people don't like something or other such as bouldering (or video's thereof).
Each to their own, fine you don't like them thats your choice, no one forces you to watch them and I see no need to develop a format that you (and possibly others) do find inspiring.
I don't think Anthony Goldsworthy's snowball sculptures are that interesting or inspiring (see http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/press-releases/greenpeace-backs-wonderfu... ), but I'm not going to ask for someone to make them more interesting for me.
In reply to GrahamD:
P.S. - In case you haven't found it yet Tis the Season (which is a beautiful short-film) is at http://www.bigupproductions.com/#/vidplayer/Tis_The_Season/
P.S. - In case you haven't found it yet Tis the Season (which is a beautiful short-film) is at http://www.bigupproductions.com/#/vidplayer/Tis_The_Season/
In reply to slacky:
I think, in a roundabout way, you are demonstrating my point quite well. Bouldering videos are really only for those who do bouldering.
Thanks for the link - I did watch it. Very pretty.
I think, in a roundabout way, you are demonstrating my point quite well. Bouldering videos are really only for those who do bouldering.
Thanks for the link - I did watch it. Very pretty.
In reply to Strife:
I'll give you that. It was certainly the best, in my opinion. It contained an element of suspense - will he, won't he - and will he still have a rotator cuff by the end of it!
> Although to be fair, I find bouldering videos with Chris Sharma in them a lot more exciting than watching any other climber.
> eg: youtube.com/watch?v=pr_Yta8G7nc&
> eg: youtube.com/watch?v=pr_Yta8G7nc&
I'll give you that. It was certainly the best, in my opinion. It contained an element of suspense - will he, won't he - and will he still have a rotator cuff by the end of it!
In reply to slacky:
Cheers for that link - that's one I'll definitely be buying, it looks excellent! What I liked about the trailer was that it shows full ascents of successful ticks, not just single second snippets and cut together like an action movie trailer. The colours are just amazing.
Cheers for that link - that's one I'll definitely be buying, it looks excellent! What I liked about the trailer was that it shows full ascents of successful ticks, not just single second snippets and cut together like an action movie trailer. The colours are just amazing.
In reply to Nicholas Livesey: you seem to have got away lightly, i reckoned thered be a fair amount of negative reaction to your "Bouldering is climbing for folk who dont like climbing..." comment. i do trad, sport and boulder and find each very absorbing and rewarding for different reasons. assuming, perhaps wrongly, youre serious then i guess youre saying Chris Sharma, Dave MacLeod, Dani Andrada et al "don't like climbing" and "have little interest in the outdoors" ?
Not Bouldering, but pretty retro-cool, and especially as I'm reading Jerry's book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1WPnFz6pkA&feature=related
Only 300+ views too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1WPnFz6pkA&feature=related
Only 300+ views too.
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