UKC

right come on then, i reckon its solid E1 5b. Is this the great Stanage sandbag?

i know this has been done to death on here but humour me.

x

In reply to thomasfoote:


No.

If you think that a classic route which is out by a single measly grade counts as a 'great sandbag', you have some nasty shocks in store.

Fate, anyone? Or Flesh & Blood? Or quite a number of those HVS 5b/c-ish things around Stanage End? You don't see many HVS leaders onsighting Little Things either.

In reply to Pagan:

I agree, somewhat harder routes at HVS do appear, and not just in Yorkshire!
I've done FBD numerous times - just warm up properly first and pay attention to the footwork - though it will be a complete bugger if you're a titch!

(I wouldn't put Old Salt or Valediction in that 'Stanage End sandbag' category, btw)

PP

In reply to thomasfoote:

http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=873

Looks like it might be bottom end E1 - but it certainly isn't a huge sandbag at hard HVS.

Chris

In reply to thomasfoote: Maybe E0?

In reply to Chris Craggs:

With routes like this, grade it E1 and everyone will cast their vote to let you know its HVS, and vise versa. In the end, it is what it is, not much point arguing over the grades of routes like this (except those desperate for an e grade tick of course).

In reply to thomasfoote:

This dude summed it up well from the logbook:

Brilliant route. Everyones differing but strongly held opinions on the grade reflect the unusual climbing style - big holds and good gear but only a tiny proportion of HVS's cross 2m roofs

Yep and the sloth is another and also steady hvs. FB is really not E1, its not anywhere near as hard as suicide wall and thats still hvs. Or sauls crack. Or Chequers crack. Or great portland street. Shall I go on?

In reply to thomasfoote:

FBD is E1 but mostly because it's hard work or I suppose if you fluffed clipping the lip gear and hit the slab it'd be E1 for the crunched feet. It's not desperate at HVS so it doesn't really matter either way.
jk

In reply to thomasfoote:

i thought it slightly harder than sloth because the climbing is a little bit sideways whereas Sloth is straight up. Both excellent, pumpy and worth having a grade or two in hand, but FBD was a bit less obvious.

In reply to Pagan:

Surgeons Saunter Direct?

In reply to PontiusPirate:


Neither would I, I was more thinking along the lines of those quarried things with long names. Mr M'Quod & the Anti-Rock Squad and the like. I'll bet not many HVS leaders get them first time.

In reply to thomasfoote: its bog standard hvs.good gear,safe and no hidden surprises.its excatly what hvs's from that era should be like.

In reply to thomasfoote:
Felt strong HVS to me. However, due to my incompetence with extenders the rope drag must had added several grades...!

In reply to thomasfoote:

A route in that mysterious no man's land between HVS and E1. Perhaps someone should think of a name to categorise such a grade.

I was full of trepidation beforehand, but was totally relaxed on route and didn't get at all pumped, which says to me it's not a proper extreme. Lots of good gear too.

I suppose if you are heavy and don't like hanging on one heel and one straight arm for long it might just get E1.

In reply to Owen W-G:

E0, isnt' it? Where's Fiend when you need him...

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Whats' E0?

In reply to thomasfoote:

So, how hard is it doing it as the first ascent, with no runners?

Never did it, too hard with no runners for me.

In reply to Owen W-G:

Given that you've been registered on this site for 6 yrs, your question is a tad surprising. Try the searching for threads on Three Pebble Slab (link below) and do pay attention in future

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&na...

In reply to thomasfoote:

It's not a sandbag, it's just that it requires commitment and faith and so the mental aspect of it is particularly important.

Climb it when you are going well and it'll seem easy, climb it when you're not going so well and it'll seem hard and scary!

In reply to thomasfoote: VS 5b

In reply to Owen W-G:

It's the Peak District equivalent to the Mild E1 used in the Lakes.

In reply to thomasfoote: Agreed!

In reply to sutty:

Paul Grey used a pre placed peg runner on the first ascent.

In reply to jkarran:

Thats OK if you are over 5'7".

In reply to bomb:

I'd personally rather solo all those than lead FBD. In fact I'd rather solo down Chequers.

Just to throw my 2p worth in, I felt like it would be E1 if you didnt have any cams. Being able to reach up and place one blind before committing to the roof makes it feel very safe, whereas pulling up and fiddling a hex in or climbing through to the placements higher up would feel very different.

Great climb whatever the grade, I'm sure I will do it again next time I'm there....

In reply to rock gobbler: It's a strange climb. The moves are nowhere near 5b, its just big hold right after big hold. Also, with cams its really safe, you just slump into mid air. It is however IMO, physically hard to get between those masive holds and feels much harder the sum of all the parts! Hard to grade!

In reply to thomasfoote: How many of you place a blind cam in the crack because someone told you you can place a blind cam in the crack? If you know you can place a blind cam in the crack you are not doing it on-sight. Ergo it's E1.

In reply to Owen W-G:

Beautifully put.

Mick

In reply to chris wyatt:

Mucho confusion. I often place cams blind when leading if necessary - and then check it on the way past. How would that detract from on-sight?

In reply to gribble: Well I did it , couldn't see the cam opportunity, got commited on steep ground and decided to power through. Obviously if you genuinely think - "ah there may be a cam placement here I'll grope around a bit". It doesn't detract from the on-site, but I suspect Its easy to call it an HVS when you are basing your info on what you already know.

Sorry if I'm not explaining myself too well...

In reply to chris wyatt:

I don't remember the vital cam placements being too mysterious, don't you need to use the same flake/crack/big-hold/whatever-it-is for your hands?

In reply to chris wyatt:

Yus. The dreaded 'beta for the vital move' thing. I refused to hear anything about it and climbed it taht way. On hindsight I wish I'd read the guidebook too - I tried to go up right, then up direct, and finally found the right way. Trying a little too hard to avoid beta there methinks.

In reply to MeMeMe: Ah that's because you looked first. Well done! But I'm not sure it is that easy to see from below.

In reply to chris wyatt:

I just reached out and found some rather satisfying holds on the lip!
I find lot of climbing is of the reaching around until you find some holds variety.

I think the thing with FBD is that if things don't go smoothly then after the point where you commit you don't really have time to mess around because it's steep and you'll run out of strength.

I think half the people that do it find the holds and gear quickly through either skill or luck (not all through "looking before" I can assure you) and everything goes rather smoothly and the other half don't find the holds or the gear placements or misread the moves and it's all very traumatic.

The former then claim it's not bad for HVS and the latter claim it's definitely E1!

In reply to rlines:

I have been involved with this route twice, once when i lead it years and years ago and fell onto the perfect cam at the start of the roof and it ripped. Luckly my belay partner was on top form and stopped me hitting the slab.

The other time was a few years ago and my mate did exactly the same thing and hit the slab. Not nice at all on his ankle. Mountain Rescue said that they are always picking people up from the bottom of the slab after the cam's rip.

Since then, i really don't like placing cams, but thats just me, and maybe the fact that I've never been back to lead it.

IMHO

M.

In reply to mememe. Yeah I can Identify with that

In reply to MeMeMe:


Haha hit the nail on the head there!

In reply to thomasfoote: I always thought this was HVS, it felt top end HVS when I did it. I am now thinking that there are too many stories of cams ripping for it to be as safe as people assume and therefore maybe it should be E1 if only to make people think about the pro more.