UKC

I have just sold my Xbox, And have money to spend. I really want to start to get a collection of Camalots. However I dont know which are the best sizes to get. Dose it really matter? Are there some sizes that would be better to get than others?

mitch

In reply to mitchellbowen1990: How much you got to spend?
Personally I think size's 1,2 and 3 are good to start with.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990: The usual reply is, it depends on what you climb most. I started with a 1, then 0.75 and 0.5. My regular climbing partner has 2 and 3.

In reply to errrrm?: I mainly climb on grit and around the grade Severe - Very severe grade(around 4b). I have just recently climbed my first two HVS and felt it feels like a good time to get some cams while i have the money.

I really want to start pushing myself with my climbing more and feel a new pair of shoes and some cams will help me to achive this. I Have around £140 to spend and know someone who works in an outdoor shop who should be able to get me a discount."finger crossed".

Dose anyone have any suggestions on cams then?

Thanks, Mitch

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

If you like crack climbing then 1, 2 and 3 are the best sizes. They are also, in my opinion, the sizes at which the double axles really become useful. Much smaller than size 1 and you might as well buy a single axle cam.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:
There are lots of threads on here about cams, the search facility is your friend.

Personally I have a .4, .5 and a 1 camalot. They are all used frequently on grit. However for 140 you'd probably only get 3 BD cams. If you check out some of the other vendors, you could get say 3 WC friends and still have enough for another cam. Or, dmm 3cu and 4 cu are cheap as chips at some places, so you could get 3 of them, a BD cam and some crabs or a new pair of boots. Decisions, decisions. I went for mix of cams from different vendors. 3cu in small, friends, and BD.

In reply to dread-i: I have £140 to spend on cams and then £100 to spend on shoes and I think i would rather have BD cams and buy 3 then them one at a time afterwards.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

When I started I got 0.75, 1 and 2.
I use the 0.75 and 1 all the time, and have done so on almost every route on grit i have done.

I now own a full set of Camelots and use my friends set to double up on 0.5 to 1.

Hope this helps

Chi

In reply to Chi Cheng:
I'd second that the most useful ones for me are 0.5, 0.75 and 1.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990: I'd say 0.75 , 1 and a 3. They go everywhere. I have doubles of all camalots up to 3 and I place these most on various rock types. G

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

Second the 0.75, 1, and 2.

For 0.75 and 1 I have doubles (ok, retrieved the 1!) because I place them so often. If your doing grit, I wouldn't go anywhere near without a 0.75, the amount of times I have placed it is unbelievable.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:
Problem with camalots is they are quite heavy, the slings are fixed in place and a bit clunky and non extendable (like the 4cus) and the angle of the cams against the rock is not the inudstry standard best value of 13.75 degrees. Also to get them reslung is expensive as they have to go back to the states. However they are still well nice cams.

If I was you I'd hang on for these beauties if you can wait

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=48937

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

If you're dead set on Camalots, I'd get 0.75, 1 and 2. (They're about £40 if you shop around). They feel great, no longer as heavy as everyone seems to think (they're pretty much the same as Tech friends in the small sizes), and have a slightly larger range than their competitors. Thet've not got doubled slings on them though which I think is a real minus point.

The DMM 3 and 4CUs are great if you're no a budget. Nice to use, doubled cams, light and you can get them cheap.

The new DMM Dragons look the mutt's but you'll have to wait till the New Year at the earliest.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

I have got .5, 1, 2 & 3. Just need a .75 and that will be enough for nearly anything.
After having WC Friends I think Camalots are awesome, the neww DMM cams do look like they could be better though.

In reply to SC:

The range .75, 1, 2, 3 is a good consensus for a "first set" (chose either the 3 smaller, or 3 larger), If you think about it- those sizes pick up around about the top end of your nut sizes.

Someone else here made a good point- which is to co-ordinate it with your regular climbing partners.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

According to who? I assume that's the industry standard of DMM, whereas Metolius have a much smaller range and BD have a much larger range. Where's the 'standard' again?

In reply to Silum:

range?

In reply to mitchellbowen1990: Hi Guys, Thanks for all your help its been great to get loads of other oppinions on camalots.

However im really stuck now i dont no weither to get camalots or to wait till the DMM Dragon Cams come out, they look and sound so good but is their any really diffrences on paper between DMM Dragon Cams and camalots? If so which are the best and why?
Dont be scared to debate if you dont agree with what someone says.

Thanks alot guys

mitch

In reply to Silum:
http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/HintsandTips/UnderstandingCams/General/

In reply to CurlyStevo:

It's neither industry standard nor a 'best' value. Just the angle that *some* manufacturers have chosen to give a good compromise between holding power and range.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

If you need the cams now then get camalots. The dragons will be more refined and lighter but in reality there won't be that much in it. I wouldn't expect the lead time on them coming out to be accurate. If you're climbing grit you'll always want more cams later - just suppliment with dragons.

In reply to petestack:
go argue the point with wild country mate I can't be arsed to argue semantics I'm off home.

From the article:
"Wild Country has never needed to change this angle, which has become internationally acknowledged as the definitive camming angle."

In reply to CurlyStevo:

No need to argue it with them when it's not me who keeps posting dogmatically to this and similar threads...


So of course they say that when it's their article! But Black Diamond, Metolius etc. have other ideas.

In reply to petestack:
I still say your arguing semantics.

For instance this book also says similar
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IXqk_0N1HgcC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&...

"Most of the companies have settled on a cam angle of around 13.75 degrees"

Anyway the point is that a few people on here have slated the BD cams camming angle (15 degrees isn't it?) on the basis that it won't hold as well. I've personally never had an issue with this with the BD cams I own. But I guess some people will see the 13.75 camming angle of the dragons as an advantage. Like you're insinuating others maybe won't.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

No, it's not, but perhaps I'm taking the bait if I say 14.5?


Me neither.


Dunno about 'insinuating' but, yes, I'm saying that not all manufacturers regard it as definitive and I'd be happy to use any decent cam from any respected source.

On which note, has anyone ever tried to measure camming angles to see if they're actually what they purport to be?

In reply to petestack:
I guess it just depends what your priorities are, would you rather the cam to be able to hold in cracks that are more flared or would you rather have greater range on your cams?

Some info on the BD camming angle here
http://www.rockclimbingspain.com/Climbing-Protection-Cams.html

In reply to petestack:

Hmmm, possibly yes...
Quote http://www.rockclimbingspain.com/Climbing-Protection-Cams.html
--------------------------------------------------
The other methods involve adding/offsetting axles and cams - the Black Diamond Double Axle C4 Camalots are the most popular big range cam and are very good. The previous generation of Camalots were really far too heavy, but the C4's are a lot lighter. The camalots do seem to still be a bit greedy on camming angle - a study in October 2008 calculated they were using an angle of 14.6 - 14.9 degrees and BD themselves reckon they use 14.5 degrees.
--------------------------------------------------
Unquote

NB No claims whatsoever being made for this article, so merely quoting what Google found for me. As well as admitting I've no idea how you could measure this yourself to fractions of a degree!

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yep, I just found that one too!

In reply to petellis:

Yes, range.

Sorry, I took it to its logical conclusion in how camming angle specifically effects range. Lower angle equals greater force but limited range. Either you are being snarky or you didn't really understand what I meant...

It should also be noted that BD don't achieve a greater range solely by camming angle, their cam profile is what allows them to create a cam with an industry best range without sacrificing holding force.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Either you are sharing that because you think I need educating in cams, or you think Wild Country represent the industry standard. I don't think industry 'first' constitutes 'standard'.

In reply to mitchellbowen1990:

Whatever you buy you will use so don't stress about it.

Initially while you have a limited set you'll cherrypick routes to suit your rack. Since I presume you have a set of nuts I personally would go for larger cams initially, they'll open up a slightly bigger set of routes. Either Green/Red/Yellow or Red/Yelow/Blue. My blue sees little use but that's because of the routes I like. Anything bigger is very specialised and costly.

jk

In reply to jkarran:


Really?

In reply to Ander:


I can't speak for anyone else but I can say that's what I do. If I don't have big cams with me I avoid routes requiring big cams, if I've left my brassies at home I avoid routes with crucial small wire runners. Surely this is common?

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Not really. I'd normally take all the gear I could possibly need for any conceivable route. Unless I was deliberately travelling light, but this would be rare.

In reply to spacey:


Yes but if you didn't have it all* then presumably you'd pick the routes you could adequately protect over those you couldn't, right?

*as is often the case when just starting out or merely disorganised like me.

jk