In reply to kidA:
> (In reply to tobyfk)
>
> Yawn yawn yawn. The old Everest bashing crew comes out again.
>
There are actually some valid points being made here, not just Everest-bashing.
> You see, guided ascents of Everest do hold quite a large amount of credibility in 99.99% with the paying public.
That statement pretty much embodies why Everest has become a commercial mountain - it has become a trophy for people who can afford it rather than the great mountaineering challenge which it once was. It sounds like a place full of people who want to have climbed it rather than people who actually want to climb it (I'm obviously making a sweeping generalisation there).
I'm under no delusions that climbing an 8000er is easy by any means, and I'm sure it is a fantastic experience for those who choose to attempt one, but my problem with it is that climbing on Everest seems to have become so detached from many of the things which make climbing and mountaineering so great; adventure, decision-making, independence, self-reliance, commitment, ethics, respect for the mountain etc etc.
In all honesty though, we may as well accept that Everest is monopolised by commercial expeditions and is no longer a "mountaineer's mountain", so it makes perfect sense to put bolts there if it makes things safer for all concerned.
> Part of the 0.01% who don't, include angry keyboard bashers on UKC who clearly put themselves in the category of (in your words) 'serious mountaineers' (to which I assume you consider yourself to be part of). Where can I join this elite group? Do they meet every quarter to snigger at Everest attempts and toss each other off to stories of climbing E5s, or maybe the time they lived off beans for a full season in the Alps, with only 3 Francs in their pocket and a homemade harness made from their mother's hair?
Grow up.