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Hi There!
I have a rope which has no mid point mark and was wondering what the best and safest method was for doing this? I have heard mixed feelings about permenant markers.
Cheers
I have a rope which has no mid point mark and was wondering what the best and safest method was for doing this? I have heard mixed feelings about permenant markers.
Cheers
In reply to wild_nomad: It is possible to purchase dye specifically for this purpose. I think Beal do one but I'm sure there are others.
Al
Al
In reply to wild_nomad:
Yep, Beal does do one but is a little expensive for my liking.
cragx (I've never used this retailer)
£8 with free p+p
http://www.cragxclimbing.com/index.php?p=product&products_id=2240&c...
or
v12 (which i use loads and trust)
£8.07 with free p+p
http://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1934&osc...
Yep, Beal does do one but is a little expensive for my liking.
cragx (I've never used this retailer)
£8 with free p+p
http://www.cragxclimbing.com/index.php?p=product&products_id=2240&c...
or
v12 (which i use loads and trust)
£8.07 with free p+p
http://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1934&osc...
In reply to wild_nomad:
a piece of finger tape does the trick
a piece of finger tape does the trick
In reply to Chi Cheng: Try looking for a Tendon rope marking pen. Much cheaper. Not quite as permenant as the Beal stuff but you can keep topping it up when it fades. Mate used the Beal stuff and said it was great but you only get a couple of goes beore it all goes hard in the container so unless you have lots of ropes to do at the same time it is a bit of a waste.
In reply to wild_nomad: ive been told that permanent markers (some at least) contain chemicals that can deteriorate the rope, i should add this was when i was asking a very similar question to yours in cragx, and as someone previously stated they sell the beal marker, though having asked a fair few questions of the guys in there they have always seemed honest and forthright with advice and would be surprised if they fed me a line to sell something. they seem like sound guys and it was enough for me a money grabbing Yorkshireman to put my hand in my pocket. the beal stuff is good and depending on use the mark lasts a fair while and the bottle is big enough for a fair few applications
In reply to Neil-Peck: I've had mine for several years and it still works. Your mate must not have sealed it correctly.
Al
Al
In reply to tradlad:
Agreed, I've had mine for several years now and works fine. It occasionally comes out a little thick, so I brush it in with a toothbrush. Great stuff. Dave S
> (In reply to Neil-Peck) I've had mine for several years and it still works. Your mate must not have sealed it correctly.
Agreed, I've had mine for several years now and works fine. It occasionally comes out a little thick, so I brush it in with a toothbrush. Great stuff. Dave S
In reply to wild_nomad:
I've used normal Sharpie markers to mark my ropes for years. Not snapped any yet.
Make what you will of that.
I've used normal Sharpie markers to mark my ropes for years. Not snapped any yet.
Make what you will of that.
In reply to wild_nomad:
Is it necessary to mark the middle. I've never found a real use for a mid-mark.
> Hi There!
>
> I have a rope which has no mid point mark and was wondering what the best and safest method was for doing this? I have heard mixed feelings about permenant markers.
>
> Cheers
>
> I have a rope which has no mid point mark and was wondering what the best and safest method was for doing this? I have heard mixed feelings about permenant markers.
>
> Cheers
Is it necessary to mark the middle. I've never found a real use for a mid-mark.
In reply to timjones:
Handy for sport climbing where you lower off at the end of the route. Climb beyond halfway, and you'll be left dangling...
> Is it necessary to mark the middle. I've never found a real use for a mid-mark.
Handy for sport climbing where you lower off at the end of the route. Climb beyond halfway, and you'll be left dangling...
In reply to 3leggeddog:
Or use a really strong bleach to make a mark. :-0
> (In reply to wild_nomad)
>
> Cut a small notch with a razor blade
>
> Cut a small notch with a razor blade
Or use a really strong bleach to make a mark. :-0
In reply to steev:
Useless anecdote then...
> (In reply to wild_nomad)
>
> I've used normal Sharpie markers to mark my ropes for years. Not snapped any yet.
>
> Make what you will of that.
>
> I've used normal Sharpie markers to mark my ropes for years. Not snapped any yet.
>
> Make what you will of that.
Useless anecdote then...
In reply to captain paranoia:
But you'd be pretty inept if you couldn't solve such a problem. If you're thinking ahead you should know how long the route is AND how long your rope is
> (In reply to timjones)
>
> [...]
>
> Handy for sport climbing where you lower off at the end of the route. Climb beyond halfway, and you'll be left dangling...
>
> [...]
>
> Handy for sport climbing where you lower off at the end of the route. Climb beyond halfway, and you'll be left dangling...
But you'd be pretty inept if you couldn't solve such a problem. If you're thinking ahead you should know how long the route is AND how long your rope is
In reply to Morgan Woods:
Who you calling shirley??
Who you calling shirley??
In reply to wild_nomad: avoid taping them, tape can jam up belay devices and other gadgetry, and will push dirt/grit into the rope along with the glue.
If you get a chance have a look on the rope marker bottles, see whats in them/not in them that means theyre safe to use.. there must be a cheaper alternative...
If you get a chance have a look on the rope marker bottles, see whats in them/not in them that means theyre safe to use.. there must be a cheaper alternative...
It does mention on the Beal stuff that it can stiffen the rope if applied too thickly, and i did find this happened to me a bit.
I marked a good 10cm ish length to make it clearly visible, and that section now doesn't pass through a belay plate as smoothly.
No major issue, but if i were to do it again i would colour a shorter section
I marked a good 10cm ish length to make it clearly visible, and that section now doesn't pass through a belay plate as smoothly.
No major issue, but if i were to do it again i would colour a shorter section
In reply to wild_nomad:
What about food colouring?
Would seen to be pretty inert as you can consume the stuff.
Various colours available and used neat is pretty damed hard to wash out of (white) clothing!
Pretty cheap as well.
Only a thought
What about food colouring?
Would seen to be pretty inert as you can consume the stuff.
Various colours available and used neat is pretty damed hard to wash out of (white) clothing!
Pretty cheap as well.
Only a thought
In reply to Morgan Woods:
You might like to think that guidebook route lengths are correct, but...
And yes, of course you can get around the dangling problem, but if a halfway mark can help avoid the problem, why not add one?
ps. my rope doesn't half a halfway mark...
You might like to think that guidebook route lengths are correct, but...
And yes, of course you can get around the dangling problem, but if a halfway mark can help avoid the problem, why not add one?
ps. my rope doesn't half a halfway mark...
In reply to timjones:
It's always useful to know how much rope you have out when route finding in the mountains so you can say eg. at half rope I should be reaching a specific feature if not i'm off route, and so on. Also pretty useful when using single doubled over a double rope on short routes so you can flake the rope out from the centre leaving the two ends on top of the pile.
> (In reply to wild_nomad)
> [...]
>
> Is it necessary to mark the middle. I've never found a real use for a mid-mark.
> [...]
>
> Is it necessary to mark the middle. I've never found a real use for a mid-mark.
It's always useful to know how much rope you have out when route finding in the mountains so you can say eg. at half rope I should be reaching a specific feature if not i'm off route, and so on. Also pretty useful when using single doubled over a double rope on short routes so you can flake the rope out from the centre leaving the two ends on top of the pile.
In reply to Rodders: Genius! Never thought of that... I'll give it a few days to see if anyone seems to think it a bad idea, then me Mam's pantry's getting raided!
In reply to wild_nomad:
This is how I mark the middle of a rope.
I take a rather large needle, and blunt the end quite a bit. Then I get some wool, preferably a different colour to the rope, and a good contrast (cotton also works). I thread the needle with the wool. I then find the middle of the rope, at that point in the rope I pick up a few strands of the outer sheath using the blunt needle, and pass the wool through these. I then tie an overhand knot in the wool, followed by another (granny knot), not too tight for the knot in the wool. Then I cut off the wool leaving two ends about 2-3cms long. Sometimes I repeat on the opposite side.
It works for me. The good thing about this is that if you end up losing several metres off the rope you can cut off the wool and redo at the ‘new’ mid-point unlike the more permanent marker. Oh, and it is much cheaper as well.
This is how I mark the middle of a rope.
I take a rather large needle, and blunt the end quite a bit. Then I get some wool, preferably a different colour to the rope, and a good contrast (cotton also works). I thread the needle with the wool. I then find the middle of the rope, at that point in the rope I pick up a few strands of the outer sheath using the blunt needle, and pass the wool through these. I then tie an overhand knot in the wool, followed by another (granny knot), not too tight for the knot in the wool. Then I cut off the wool leaving two ends about 2-3cms long. Sometimes I repeat on the opposite side.
It works for me. The good thing about this is that if you end up losing several metres off the rope you can cut off the wool and redo at the ‘new’ mid-point unlike the more permanent marker. Oh, and it is much cheaper as well.
In reply to escalator:
I use a short (5cm) piece of finger tape, then when it gets rolled up and starts becoming a nuisance, I replace it. Might be once every few days, might be once a month.
Chris
I use a short (5cm) piece of finger tape, then when it gets rolled up and starts becoming a nuisance, I replace it. Might be once every few days, might be once a month.
Chris
In reply to Rodders:
What gives you that idea? When eaten, it's hugely diluted.
Many of them are slightly acidic (organic acids generally) so not great. Worse, many of them will degrade into other things which may be more harmful to the rope.
> (In reply to wild_nomad)
> What about food colouring?
> Would seen to be pretty inert as you can consume the stuff.
> What about food colouring?
> Would seen to be pretty inert as you can consume the stuff.
What gives you that idea? When eaten, it's hugely diluted.
Many of them are slightly acidic (organic acids generally) so not great. Worse, many of them will degrade into other things which may be more harmful to the rope.
In reply to mountain_jay:
Yeah, but it doesn't really affect handling (especially on thin ish halfs), and it give you another way of finding the middle if its dark or the mark has faded.
> It does mention on the Beal stuff that it can stiffen the rope if applied too thickly
Yeah, but it doesn't really affect handling (especially on thin ish halfs), and it give you another way of finding the middle if its dark or the mark has faded.
In reply to Calum Nicoll:
What like? Plenty of people do this Calum, I don't think its a biggy.
> (In reply to Rodders)
> [...]
>
> many of them will degrade into other things which may be more harmful to the rope.
> [...]
>
> many of them will degrade into other things which may be more harmful to the rope.
What like? Plenty of people do this Calum, I don't think its a biggy.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
...which means you must have done it about 27,000 times. Don't you find it a bore to have to keep finding the middle to mark it? Does it not get in the way when abseiling?
> (In reply to escalator)
>
> I use a short (5cm) piece of finger tape, then when it gets rolled up and starts becoming a nuisance, I replace it. Might be once every few days, might be once a month.
>
> Chris
>
> I use a short (5cm) piece of finger tape, then when it gets rolled up and starts becoming a nuisance, I replace it. Might be once every few days, might be once a month.
>
> Chris
...which means you must have done it about 27,000 times. Don't you find it a bore to have to keep finding the middle to mark it? Does it not get in the way when abseiling?
In reply to wild_nomad: From the UIAA website.
"Notification Concerning the Marking of Ropes
Tests done by the UIAA Safety Commission and some rope manufacturers have shown that marking ropes with liquids such as those provided by felt-tipped pens can damage them; even with those markers, sold specifically for marking ropes. The test results have shown a decrease of up to 50% of the
rope strength, more correctly: of the energy absorption capacity of the rope (expressed by the number of falls in the standard test method in accordance with the UIAA Standard101).
Therefore the UIAA Safety Commission warns against marking a rope with any substance that has not been specifically approved by the rope manufacturer of that rope. It is not possible for the UIAA Safety Commission to test all markers that are commercially available and can be used for marking ropes. Furthermore it would be impossible for the UIAA Safety Commission to keep such information up-to-date. In addition, the effect of any rope marker seems to vary with the make of rope. Hence, all the UIAA Safety Commission can do is to warn mountaineers and climbers.
Issued: April 2002"
After reading this I wouldn't use food colouring, felt pens, markers, or even tape. Just buy a new rope if you need a middle marker that much, I don't think it's worth the risk of a 50% reduction in rope strength.
"Notification Concerning the Marking of Ropes
Tests done by the UIAA Safety Commission and some rope manufacturers have shown that marking ropes with liquids such as those provided by felt-tipped pens can damage them; even with those markers, sold specifically for marking ropes. The test results have shown a decrease of up to 50% of the
rope strength, more correctly: of the energy absorption capacity of the rope (expressed by the number of falls in the standard test method in accordance with the UIAA Standard101).
Therefore the UIAA Safety Commission warns against marking a rope with any substance that has not been specifically approved by the rope manufacturer of that rope. It is not possible for the UIAA Safety Commission to test all markers that are commercially available and can be used for marking ropes. Furthermore it would be impossible for the UIAA Safety Commission to keep such information up-to-date. In addition, the effect of any rope marker seems to vary with the make of rope. Hence, all the UIAA Safety Commission can do is to warn mountaineers and climbers.
Issued: April 2002"
After reading this I wouldn't use food colouring, felt pens, markers, or even tape. Just buy a new rope if you need a middle marker that much, I don't think it's worth the risk of a 50% reduction in rope strength.
In reply to jonny2vests:
No probs finding the middle - the old tape is still there. Never been a real problem abbing - though I guess there is the potential for a snafu.
Chris
>
>
> ...which means you must have done it about 27,000 times. Don't you find it a bore to have to keep finding the middle to mark it? Does it not get in the way when abseiling?
>
> ...which means you must have done it about 27,000 times. Don't you find it a bore to have to keep finding the middle to mark it? Does it not get in the way when abseiling?
No probs finding the middle - the old tape is still there. Never been a real problem abbing - though I guess there is the potential for a snafu.
Chris
In reply to ablackett:
You flash git! So you wouldn't even use and approved rope marker?
> (In reply to wild_nomad) From the UIAA website.
>
> Just buy a new rope if you need a middle marker that much
>
> Just buy a new rope if you need a middle marker that much
You flash git! So you wouldn't even use and approved rope marker?
In reply to major stabby:
Out of curiosity what does the 'organic' origin have to do with the safety of it? Formic acid is fairly commonly found in nature but I wouldn't want it on my climbing gear.
I suspect most if not all of the commonly available synthetic clothes dyes designed for nylon will work just fine as will permanent marker pens but since I've no need of a mid marker and no conclusive evidence to back up my suspicion I'll stick to coiling from one end.
'Rope marker' pens are a safe bet.
jk
> Makes sense - also some of those organic clothes dyes - beetroot etc
Out of curiosity what does the 'organic' origin have to do with the safety of it? Formic acid is fairly commonly found in nature but I wouldn't want it on my climbing gear.
I suspect most if not all of the commonly available synthetic clothes dyes designed for nylon will work just fine as will permanent marker pens but since I've no need of a mid marker and no conclusive evidence to back up my suspicion I'll stick to coiling from one end.
'Rope marker' pens are a safe bet.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
the mid marker is also useful on long pitches so you know when you are half way, as well as for abseiling or when climbing with a single half rope where the second ties in to the middle for short crags.
the mid marker is also useful on long pitches so you know when you are half way, as well as for abseiling or when climbing with a single half rope where the second ties in to the middle for short crags.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I guess so. Don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal... it's just not a feature I use. I'm not even sure which of my ropes are marked and which aren't.
jk
I guess so. Don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal... it's just not a feature I use. I'm not even sure which of my ropes are marked and which aren't.
jk
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