UKC

Hi

I have purchased DMM dragon 4 and 5, which are brilliant, they have huge camming ranges, which is great for the quarries and Crags in South Wales. I want to get 1,2,3 obviously, but this is the dilemma. Wild country cams at Go Outdoors are £119 for 3 cams sizes 1,2,3.

Meanwhile The DMM dragon is around £52 each at Cotswold, so that £156 for the 3 cams. Does the Wild Country cam have the same camming range as the DMM dragon size for size? Basically, would I loose out on a better product going for the cheaper alternative?

Thanks in advance

Jason

In reply to lone: I suggest you go to a proper climbing shop (not Cotswold or Go Outdoors) and have a conversation about the options.

For a start the SRP on Dragons is £50, not £52 and the SRP for a 1,2,3 set is £140. So I have just saved you £16 right there.

If you live in South Wales there are good climbing shop in Cardiff (Up and Under) and Bristol (My Shop).

In reply to Richard Hall:

Sorry, SRP is £140 on 2,3,4 set. There is no 1,2,3 set.

In reply to lone:
The Wild Country cams are going for £119 on go outdoors, but remember to add the delivery of a fiver! So its more like £124...

The DMM dragons are going for £50 quid each on V12 and Joe Browns I think.

If you shop around you will always get a better deal mate...

In reply to lone: if you go on the neeldesports site it list the ranges for each cams. Dragon 4's 'bottom end' overlaps most of friend 2.5, and about 1/2 of the top end of friend 2, so getting a friend 3 would be a waste of time. Dragon 1 is more or less the same as friend 1, but D3 is the same as F2 and bigger.I've made up a chart showing how dragons, friends and camalots compare so can see easily.

In reply to lone:

To answer your original question, the sizes are definitely different for Dragons an Friends. So you are not comparing like with like. Have a compare here http://dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?pid=4&pid2=249 and here http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/dnlds/Wild_Country_Cam_Book_2Mb.pdf page 30.

Basically, Friends do not cover the same range per unit as a Dragon, but they are not necessarily a worse product - there's no harm in mixing and matching if you can get a really good deal on Friends somewhere else (I'm not convinced that £119 for 3 is an amazing deal, only 'quite good').

In reply to Monk:

Thanks for the information Monk and everyone else, I've only just started out climbing a few months ago progressing from grade 1/2 scrambling and hill walking into climbing but only up to a maximum of VDiff.

I shop at Up and Under a lot and purchased my current 2 Dragons there, but I just wanted to see what views there are surrounding the various range in Cams on the forum as there will always be various opinions.

I appreciate the comments, as it's all knowledge for me. I'm progressing up towards VDiff, and I'm looking about for the Ideal first VDiff climb for the future, I live not far from Taffs Well, is the Pine Tree VDiff a good climb to start off with? I noticed the climb is steep but gradual from the base, does the gradient keep like this to the top or does it become more difficult as you pass the pine tree ?

Regards

Jason

In reply to lone:

Pine Tree is Hard VD and a multipitch route requiring a bit more care with rope work, extending runners and finding good nut placements. Cams are not neccessary. I would guess that this would not be a good route choice for you just yet.

If you are looking for a large selection of VD to S route in South Wales with easy access and plenty of gear placements you could do alot worse than Box Bay near Porthcawl. You will have to be weary as the crag is tidal but easily escapable.

You might also try Morlais and Twyn Gwynion. Three Cliffs Bay on the Gower is not that far and gives an excellent choice of short low grade routes. All these can be found in South Wales Guide book and on UKC crag finder.

Hope this helps.

Mark

In reply to lone:
The outdoorshop did have dragons in at £40 each. Not sure if there still in stock but they are selling Blackdiamond Camalot at around £43 each.

https://www.theoutdoorshop.com/

Camalots have a larger range, thumb loop but don't have the expendable sling and have a different caming angle (a little less holding power).

Dragons and camalot are also anodised the same colour so a red camalot and a red dragons are about the same size.

Hope this helps

I think you meant 'extendable'?

Personally, I rate the Camalots more than the Dragons, owning Camalots but having used a partner's Dragons. I find the extendable sling on the Dragons only marginally more useful than a fixed length sling on the lead, and feel the advantage gained does not outweigh the loss of the thumb loop. Furthermore, I find shortening the sling back to its doubled length when seconding, in order to rack the cam, quite awkward, particularly one-handed on steep ground.

If you can get Camalots for 43 quid, as one poster suggested, I'd go for them. I think that they would make a good complement to the Dragons you already have, particularly as they offer a similar expansion range to the 1,2 and 3 Dragons you are considering.

Of course, this is all just one punter's opinion...

In reply to deadahead:

Now, I have heard this a lot recently. I am curious, what is it about the thumb loop that everyone finds so useful? I've never had much of an opinion either way.

In reply to lone: Although camalots have a larger range in some sizes (not all, the D4 and C2 are identical) the head width is always larger by 3-9mm depending on size, a significant downer if you climb in pockety areas.

In reply to lone:

I'm not saying the thumb loop is better per se than the end piece of the Dragons (or the previous generation of Camalots, for that matter, which had a metal end rather than a loop). I just find the thumb loop more comfortable and more secure feeling when I am placing/removing the cam, that's all.

I guess it's largely just down to personal preference in the end. People who have Metolius cams swear by (and recommend) them, similarly with WC Friend owners, and BD Camalot owners, etc. You get used to what you have, and you like what you get used to...

In reply to lone:

OK, I know I already posted that Camelot are cheap at "the outdoor shop" but just found "go outdoors" to a price match and then take an additional 10% off.

So a Camelot which would of cost £40 is now £36, you do have to get a card but a £4 each money saved if you buy more than one.

Camelot 0.5 = Dragon 1 is £40 at the outdoor shop so £36 at go outdoors
Camelot 0.75 = Dragon 2 is £42.95 at the outdoor shop so £38.66 at go outdoors.
Camelot 1 = Dragon 3 is £42.95 at the outdoor shop so £38.66 at go outdoors.

In reply to lone: I've seen the Dragons for £50 and you go to a shop and use a BMC discount card on them you'll pick up 3 for £135 which narrows the margin a bit.

In reply to lone: I have brand new and still packaged Dragons No's 1, 2, 3 that you can have for £45 each plus £3 towards P&P. Email me back if you are keen.
Best regards
Jon

In reply to Chi Cheng:

Hm, I might try this myself, the GoOutdoors guarantee includes UK websites which a lot of price guarantees don't. Thanks for the tip!

In reply to Richard Hall:

I have had talked to Cotswold staff who were climbers themselves and had a decent conversation without them getting pushy, so I wouldn't completely write them off. They're not cheap but neither are some specialist climbing shops and my local Cotswold store does discount for local climbing wall members.