UKC

Using DMM Flys with leashes at the mo but want to try leashless. Like the vipers and the Quarks . Will be mostly on grade iv and v ice and mixed . Any advice would be great . Thanks .

In reply to ksneds:

Either will do... but so will Flys with added grip rests!

In reply to ksneds: I hear the laser picks on the vipers have a rep for snapping when used for mixed whilst I can vouch for the standard quark picks as being able to handle mixed abuse despite being b rated. Anyone got more info?

In reply to ksneds:

I dont own quarks anymore, but after lots of testing, I have been convinced that petzl produce by far the best tools out there, from quarks to nomics.

In reply to ksneds: The old Quarks are just great for ice. The Vipers are marginally better and brilliant axes. However, with the brand new Quarks, Petzl have moved the standard even higher again.

For me it would be the new Quarks all the way.

Although I must add that I loved the old Quarks and I'm a complete convert to having triggers on my axes so for me the new Quarks are about as close to perfection as you can get currently .

In reply to petestack: any idea where grip rests can be bought ? Is it fairly straight forward to modify Flys ?

In reply to petestack:

What are the flys like to use with grip rests? And where can you buy them?

In reply to Diggler:

you can get them here

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Ice-Axes/Ic...


hope that helps

In reply to ksneds: I own Quarks and also regularly use Vipers. Love the Quarks for mixed (and have climbed loads of steep ice with them), but if I'd have to go and buy some new ones, I'd go for Vipers - I go completely leashless on ice and use spring leashes on mixed.

I bought mine online, Needlesports IIRC. You just need to drill one hole through the spike of the axes. A friend did it for me for a few beers so I can't comment on the difficulty but I know of a few people who have done it so it's definitely not impossible.


I really like mine, I love the swing of the Flys and didn't want to fork out for new leashless tools when there was still plenty of life left in them. The griprests make leashless climbing easy and if you wanted you could attach triggers to the shafts too. I can send photos if you want but a search of the forums will reveal a few other threads with photos on the subject.

Iain

In reply to ksneds:

Needle Sports etc. And, yes, it's pretty straightforward (can even be done without drilling anything if you want)...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=432620

In reply to Diggler:

They're fine. Not quite Vipers (which I've also got) or Quarks, but support the hands securely/comfortably enough.

In reply to ksneds:

As you have Fly's, I would second the comments on getting the grip rests for them (perhaps also triggers if you need those - can probably fit the new Petzl ones, as well as either size of the Grivels). This will get you to leashless mode easy and cheap, and you can use the saved cash for other gear, or maybe even another set of more radical (?) tools, be it Nomic, Fusion, Ergo, or something along those lines. And then you always have the Fly's for alpine and easy stuff.

In reply to grimm:

Here's a useful chart for fitting accessories across brands:

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Ice-Axes/Ic...

In reply to grimm:
But then he can always sell the flys for a desent price and get a pair of modern tools like the vipers with more agressive pick angles and more curved shafts which are better for leasheless

In reply to CurlyStevo:
more info on BD picks being more liable to snapping
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/788975/1

due to being cut from a sheet rather than forged.

The new quarks also look like they have a new head that the pick fits into which appears to be a change of material type. The old head was very soft and got quite beaten up when mixed climbing.

In reply to ksneds: I started off with a set of Flys, which seemed fine to me. I then tried a friends set of Quarks which felt so much better. Bought myself a set of the new BD vipers and they feel even better again and i use them for everything (except scottish winter, living in the south its easier to get to the alps, although if we have a good winter again i shall make my way north).

Although for ice /mixed the nomics just make everything feel 10 times easier

Needelsport were selling the new viper with the titan picks as standard for scottish mixed.

If i had the chance and spare cash i'd love to try the new nomic out.

If you can get to a shop which stocks both and have a swing, at the end of the day its all personal preference

In reply to CurlyStevo:


What's with your obsession about pick angles and curved shafts?! On grade V a few degrees extra clearance makes about as much difference as merino wool underwear instead of cotton! The price for a set of 2nd hand Flys won't even fund 1 Viper or Quark. Undoubtedly they are better tools but why not pay £20 to go leashless and test the water, get a few more seasons out of the Flys then upgrade either when the axes are knackered or the grade you climb dictates a more aggressive tool?

A bad workman always blames his tools! :oP

Iain

In reply to CurlyStevo:


For balance - I asked about this last winter: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=383485 and although there were a few pick breakages reported I don't think any were BD.

In reply to IainMunro:
Fair point, depends how sure he is that he'll like leasheless, knowing Kenny and leashes I think it's a given.

In reply to CurlyStevo: yup defo had it wit my leashes . thanks everyone for all usefull replies Found a pair of Vipers online for £260 . Think they have smaller adze and hammer though . Is it worth paying extra fir the larger picks ? Modifying the flys interesting option also I suppose. Trip to gear shop required I think

In reply to ksneds: At that price, just buy the vipers

In reply to ksneds:

£260 is a bargain. A few of my friends have the new vipers with small adze and hammer, they grumble now and again but get by, my girlfriend has the old style with the shovel like adze and it's great. Whether it's worth an extra £50 or not I'm not sure.

Iain

In reply to IainMunro:
yeah but you also get the mixed picks

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Ah right I didn't realise there was a difference in the size of picks just thought there was the laser and titan etc for ice and mixed.

Iain

In reply to ksneds:

I'd sell the Flys and get the Vipers.

In reply to IainMunro:

Spot on.

I'm currently quite happy to climb the occasional classic grade V with a pair of old modded axes because they are more than good enough and I've better things to spend my money on.

FWIW I'd buy a pair of the new Quarks tomorrow if I won the lottery but I know for certain it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to which routes I climb.

In reply to ksneds:

For the quoted grades I'd say Keep the Flys. Modify if you're really keen to try leashless.
If you're absolutely desperate to part with all that cash I can email you my bank details.
Jase