UKC

i ve been reading the old threads on this (could nt restart last one). i ve just been phoneing round trying to get some for my run around, none of the local tyre shops have any or can get any "nah mate sold out at our suppliers". mytyres.co.uk seems to be about the only place who have any (155 70 13 T). do most peoplefit 2 or 4 ? i was only going to get 2 cos of the expense. small light car, generally 1 or 2 people , is 2 enough ?

In reply to mike123: i personally wouldnt bother unless your original tyres are worn out or the price of winter tyres are the same as summer tyres

In reply to mike123:

I've heard that there has been a change in the law in Germany which insists all vehicles now use winter tyres, duh in the winter so there has been a run on stock with most of it being diverted to the hun for their panzers and squad cars. This is why stocks in the uk are low. This was what a friend's uncle had been told anyway, not sure how true it is. Have a word with pick?

In reply to mike123:

I read a few motoring forums and the concensus was go for 4, otherwise the back end would slide about. Kwikfit do them,

Check out the reviews and which ones do best in the tests here (eg. conti winter contact TS830)...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Continental/WinterContact-TS830.htm

In reply to 3leggeddog: It's true, they made it compulsory to fit winter tyres, on the spot fines if your caught without between certain dates. Previously it was only a problem if your tires weren't suitable for the road conditions.

In reply to 3leggeddog: springfield was shut again today , not enough grit. maybe its part of a conspiracy ?

In reply to tradmania: tried to get some of them after reading your posts on previous thread, sold out.

In reply to tradmania: local tyre shop said 2 was ok, they just couldnt get them.

In reply to mike123:

No one whinges about that though, no one misses out on their free child care

In reply to mike123: I've been running with just two on my fwd car with ace grip on the snow covered hills. Do bear in mind that the rear will slide if you take a bend too quickly. Easy to correct but best to just take things steady and find all the car free rat runs nobody uses in snow

In reply to mike123: Was a passenger in a car going backwards down a narrow alpine road which made me think maybe its better to fit 4 winter tyres!

In reply to mike123: Definitely fit four, you don’t want one to find end of the car grips the road while the other unexpectedly lets go.
The Michelin Winter Contact tyres are good and will be better than summer tyres in any cold conditions, not just snow and ice.

In reply to stevev:

Errr, what I heard on the radio was that they just clarified the law as it stands, and possibly increased the fines, but there is definitely no fixed change over date. It was an option, but it was decided (rightly) that that would be stupid.

Tim

Tim

your right, my mate told me. It was a crackdown and some more stringent checking that started on 4 Dec,
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20101203-31577.html

In reply to mike123:
German supplier reifen.com is listing the pirelli and michelin in that size available now at €60 each

http://www.reifen.com/en/TyreSize/List/CarWinter/155-70-R13/0/False/False/n...

Try kwik-fit as well, I was surprised at their pricing, mytyres have massively increased prices since the snow started.

You should fit 4.

In reply to mike123:

2?

2!

Shouldn't this be 'Winter Tyres Fifteen and Three-Quarters' or something?

In reply to stevev:

to be honest, I'd be suprised if it was that that's causing a shortage - I really don't know anyone who is not running winter tyres in the snow at the moment here. I think the people who weren't are not really going to be made to change because of this clarification. It's not like half the car owners here are suddenly deciding to put winter tyres on (though it might be different in the north, where they don't necessarily get so much snow)

Tim

In reply to mike123:

You used to be able to get remould M+S tyres, made by Colway I believe, I had a pair on my mini, they were brilliant, not very long lasting when the snow thawed.

In reply to mike123: DON"T FIT 2!!

I've been a winter tyre user for 20 years - here and in the Alps - any tyre place that says only 2 has no genuine knowledge. What will happen is that the two non-winter tyres will let go when the two winter ones are gripping and, this will translate into nightmare handling (Sutty - time for you to come in on this one) including interesting unpredicatble 360 degree spins of the car. It is COMPLETELY DANGEROUS! Mytyres have loads of stock (try Nokian, continental or pirelli), get steel rims from fleabay...and off you go. But get 4 not 2.

In reply to mike123: I have a pair on the front of my van and it has gone from hardly being able to move in the snow to not getting stuck at all.
I would have got 4 but I could only get 2 in my size and to be honest I have done a good few hundred miles on north yorkshire back roads this week and not felt the back slip once.

In reply to mike123: I bought two when I was in the Alps for winter, locals and the local tyre guy said it would be fine and they were right. It meant I didn't have to use chains at any point despite having lived on a steep unploughed road every time I've been out there. Provided you don't drive like a tool two are fine.

In reply to mike123:


http://www.tirerack.com/winter/wintertesting.jsp

In reply to Dax H:

When push comes to shove, two on the drive wheels will pull you out of the mire, or snow. However the two remaining ones will slide just as much as before, and also brake a lot worse.

If you fit two, drive as if you are on all normal tyres to stop the car swapping ends.

Dales postie is having a ball power sliding his van round corners to get a run up hills, but he is on full winter tyres and says it is 'interesting' at times.

In reply to sutty: thanks sutty - your voice of reason is good to hear...tim

In reply to timO: ...and re 2 only ... from the link jim fraser gave:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=82

suggests that running two is an extremely bad idea

In reply to timO:

Listen to Jim and you will rarely get bad advice. He is also more up to date on modern technology than me and uses winter gear in anger as well so knows its uses and limitations.

In reply to timO:


Front wheel drive cars can be a nightmare on downhill slippy stuff to start with (rear wants to overtake front under engine braking). Using winter tyres only on the front makes this worse. The effect is with you in nearly all conditions and cornering is a problem as well.

Downhill is the old 'balance the pencil on your finger' trick. If you break the point of your pencil when it falls over that's a shame. If you do the same with 1500kg of car it could be causing death by dangerous driving.

Rear-wheel drive with only two is not quite as outright dangerous. It'll go straight on at corners though if you don't keep your speed down. Reasonably stable on downhill sections and perhaps a bit more of a handful on twisty uphill sections than with four.

In reply to timO:

Really hard to find any steel rims on eb at the moment. Also quite hard to find what width of rim you need from online. R15 I know, but what width rim would it be if I had 186/65 tyres on as standard... guessing about 5.5, but could be 6???

djb

In reply to Dave B:

5.5 is a good minimum, 6 is good and the biggest a 185/65R15 will go on is 6.5.

In reply to Dave B: Try putting your car make & model into Mytyres' Steel Wheels with Tyres ordering page: http://mytyres.co.uk/Steel_wheels.html - that should offer you options which are right for your car and the tyre size you want. You can then use that information for your search elsewhere. Or buy from Mytyres; I found the additional cost of the wheels in their wheel+tyre combinations was very competitive, for new wheels (obviously you can find cheaper wheels used on eBay). I also managed to order mine at a point when the cost had actually gone down slightly. Pity they still haven't actually arrived...

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Ta very mcuh. So. R15 x 6 inch with the appropriate bolt placing.... 4 bolts - it this fairly standard, or Do I need to check the BCD or whatever they use...

I have it written done somewhere for the PUG Partner...

In reply to Dave B: BCD is the wheel - are you buying wheels with the tyres - if so you need the PCD or BCD (same difference) so the wheels will bolt to the hubs...

In reply to mike123:

I see the Tory transport minister has said winter tyres are not appropriate in the UK.

What an utter dickhead.

In reply to Martin W:

They dont' list the the Peugeot partner escapade... Which means having hunted through I can't find a 15 inch wheel appropriate to the car...

In reply to mike kann:

Thanks. knew the BCD/PCD was the wheel - would like 2nd set of wheels, but hard to find exact measurements of them...

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels:

Agreed. Beggars belief, particularly as the Tories traditionally support the 'motoring lobby' - it's a nice little earner for the tyre fitters.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Continental were not happy with him:

http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=155470031

and

http://www.motortradenews.com/news/14-automotive-news/26021-government-wron...

In reply to ChrisJD:

Thanks for those links. Incredible that the guy should be so ill-informed, or more likely, he did no research whatever before he made his reply.

In reply to ChrisJD:

He is an ignorant pillock if he said that, why not let him know:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/philip_hammond/runnymede_and_weybridge

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: A fuller quote is given as

"The use of winter tyres—snow tyres or even studded tyres—and snow chains is appropriate where people drive for long periods through the winter on compacted snow; it is not appropriate in the situation, as in the UK, where snow is on the ground for relatively short periods. Winter tyres wear out very quickly on normal road surfaces and cause significant damage to those surfaces, so they would not be appropriate in the UK situation. "

where he seems to talking about studded tyres and snow chains initially but confuses matters later.

In reply to MG:

Clearly gritting the roads has no side effects and neither does trying to scrape every drop of snow off the road either, I think his civil servant brief failed in their research there.

In reply to MG:

He is obviously utter ignorant of the uses of winter tyres.

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels: Even if true, I don't think that makes him an "utter dickhead".

In reply to MG:

I do, a complete and utter arsehole, for ruling out something that is acepted the world over as making life a lot easier and safe.

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels: His basic point is correct. For the overwhelming majority of the UK population in nine years out of ten, winter tyres would be of minimal benefit. If used in good conditions they use more fuel and do wear out more quickly. Therefore the government encouraging drivers to spend money of an extra set of tyres that would have to be fitted in advance each winter as a knee-jerk reaction to recent exceptional weather would be wrong.

In reply to MG:

OH hell, he lives in Surrey so only has a few weeks snow. In half the north they have three months bad weather in winter, ONE QUARTER OF THE YEAR.

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels:

For once I find myself agreeing with a tory minister!

After living, and driving, "on the continent" for 35 years I agree with the vast majority of French drivers that this particular tory is quite right. For those living in the mountains, or even regions like the Morvan, there may be sense in splashing out on winter tyres but for most of the population it makes little sense - which is why they don't do it

Sorry to bring a simple fact into the discussion, whatever the pro-tyre industry lobby and assorted fellow travellers may care to say.

In reply to sutty:
In half the north they have three months bad weather in winter, ONE QUARTER OF THE YEAR.

I was talkg about the UK, not Canada.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:


It's interesting if you google the quote it is all the tyre manufacturers that have picked up on it and Don, sorry Jeff, has fallen for their marketing.

In reply to MG:

Whatever, anyone with the vaguest idea of winter tyres in Scotland knows they make a huge difference. Best situation would be to give the power to Scottish Parliament then everyone is happy.

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels:
Best situation would be to give the power to Scottish Parliament then everyone is happy.


How about leaving it up to individuals, as now?

In reply to MG:

I see where you are coming from with comments like this;
>Oh well, if you will live in the middle of nowhere Our council rather suprisingly gritted our (private) shared driveway.

We have had snow and ice for nearly a month now, had the road ploughed but not gritted once in that time. There are at least two more winter months left when snow could stop movement.

Programme the other day said it would cost £400 million to keep the roads clear, but we lose £2 billion a day in lost productivity when people can't move. No idea if the figures are correct.

In reply to sutty:


If you think winter tyres would help you, fine. What I am saying is it doesn't make sense for the government to encourage it for the reasons I gave above. The minister was responding to a question about whether the government should encourage it. FWIW in 20 years in Scotland I have never failed to get where I want with 2WD and normal tyres, nor have I crashed. This has included a lot of winter climbing, walking and skiing. I'll save my money for something worthwhile, like some new ice-screws!

In reply to MG:

Nah, not as good.

In reply to MG:

>If you think winter tyres would help you, fine.

I know they help, otherwise we would not have been first car through from Lomondside over to Glencoe one night, and driving on rutted roads at near normal speeds between Spean Bridge and Kingussie one trip. OK it was a rally car and we were not concerned with tyre costs. After all we used them for two or three events then retired them to normal road use for driving at sensible speeds. Five sets a year was normal, with three sets for an international on roads.

In reply to sutty:
Five sets a year was normal, with three sets for an international on roads.


I'll some new skis, sallopettes and maybe a kayak to my ice-screws.

In reply to MG:



Winter tyres don't cost any more than normal tyres (the one I have cost less) and you've got to have something on each corner, so there is not much real extra cost in the mid term.

In reply to Jim Fraser: Sorry, have to disagree. I live on a steep hill in the Peaks (never ploughed or gritted) and put two winter tyres onto my fronts only (front wheel drive car) each winter and its fine. The rears will slip first but if you drive sensibly it's no problem and if you don't it's fun (if you have the skills). I just swap them onto my existing rims and swap back to summers in spring. Too late to point this out but it is much cheaper to buy your winters in summer and just put them on when you need to. They can be harder to buy when the snow has started.

In reply to Geoffrey Michaels:

I suspect from that quote he's like several people I've spoken to in Aberdeen who think that winter tyre = studded tyre. I've even had someone asking me if it was legal to use winter tyres in the UK due to the studs damaging the road after I said I'd got a set!

As for the pointless debate, over the last 2 winters I've relied on snow chains to get in and out of my village which was really starting to annoy me when I was needing to use them most days for weeks at a time so this winter I went out and got some winter tyres and haven't had to fit my chains once. I was always a bit dubious about the effectiveness of winter tyres but am well and truelly convinced now and can't believe some of the road conditions I've been able to drive through with no problems. I've even been trying to get my wheels to spin (2WD) by giving it beans up hill on hard packed snow and ice in first gear and amazed when I've just pulled away with no slipping at all when before I'd never have got moved an inch with summer tyres on in those conditions no matter how careful I was with gear selection, revs, etc.

In reply to MG:

I doubt an atom is able to move anywhere in the Universe without expert analysis from your good self.

In reply to Dave80: Same! I'm totally amazed at how brilliant my winter tyres are. I've been zooming about pretty much every day where other cars have been too scared to go. Money well spent as far as I'm concerned (and I got them the week before the snow came so good timing

In reply to Sonya Mc:

Hold on! Some tory guy doon saff is telling you that they are not necessary! Please listen to the poor man!

For what it's worth...

My first experience of winter tyres was in an Impressa in Switzerland - I was sold the idea instantly. Now have a T5 Transporter with 4motion and a set of winter tyres - last weekend I was parked at PyB and they closed the entrance as there was about 1cm of sheet ice on the driveway - the van didn't even hesitate - and I got a route done when otherwise I would have been waiting for the ice to melt. The tyres cost about £250 quid each at the local Quickfit - fortunately the van came with a second set of wheels so just a matter of swapping the wheels over in the spring...

Ultimtely I don't reckon it costs any more in the long term - if you can - you should, and I reckon you're a lot less likely to end up in a ditch/morgue.

In a word 'amazing'.

In reply to sutty: Sutty and other winter tyre users know of that which they speak....well...quite a few people have voiced fairly strong opinions on this thread, but some appear not to have read the background research which has been cited, which shows (conclusively...and it's research from a variety of countries) that winter tyres make sense even in non-snowy, but cold conditions. Take the following test before launching forth with more statements:

1 driven in the Alps on winter tyres for 20 years? If yes, score 1. If no, score 0.
2 fitted winter tyres & selected manufacterer-approved steel rims? If yes, score 1. If no, score 0.
3 carefully read the background research on stopping distances? If yes, score 1. If no, score 0.
4 not scored anything yet but I will sound off about winter tyres? if yes, minus 3, if no, score 0.
5 used them for rallying? if yes, bonus of plus 10.
6 are you a minister who confuses studded and winter tyres? take 10 off.

Scored between minus 3 and zero? go and read the research. But keep your opinions to yourself since you might be advising someone to do something not only dangerous to themselves but also to other road users.

Scored plus 3...you are likely to be sensible and safe

Scored over 10...your name is Sutty

In reply to timO:

You forgot:

7. Driven for 40 years all the year round and never found the need for "winter tyres".

8. Prefer spending 30 quid for a pair of chains which can be left in the boot when off to the mountains in winter "just in case" than several hundreds on a set of winter tyres and rims which will clutter up the garage when not in use.

Each to his own, of course, and once again I'm speaking for the average low-land driver in W Europe, not one who lives in the hills or particularly snowy regions.

In reply to timO:

I Only scored 1, but thats because I just got my tyres fitted on my normal wheels.
I have read all of the background prior to fitting them, and having written of a car in the snow in feb which I am damn sure would have not have happened should I have had winter tyres fitted (snow and slush on a hill and ABS do not mix well).
So all I can say is that my winter tyres are a whole lot cheaper than having another accident due to not being able to stop in crappy conditions. (and before anyone says it yes I was by definition driving too fast for the conditions)

In reply to Dave B:

Useful calculator: http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator.htm

In reply to timO:

Points, huh? Do you work for the Australian immigration service Tim?

In reply to mike123:

I'm in the 'winter tyres work' category

We live in Middlesbrough and my Partner travels to Loftus each day (which has seen its fair share of winter weather. The first week we had normal tyres on the Skoda, the second we had winter tyres on front two.

The winter tyres didn't cost any more than normal and they've been a god send so far. They make a noticeable difference in snow/ice and have made access to some roads possible when the older tyres weren't. When getting to work everyday through a mix of compacted snow,ice or fresh snow they've been easier and more convenient than fitting snow chains.

Al

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Hey Jim, you get top dog points from that lot, not me. As I said earlier, you are more up to date than me and use yours a lot more.

In reply to Jim Fraser: ...and what do points mean? PRIZES!!!!

god rest Humph's soul.....

In reply to sutty:

No, not recently. The old days of using the used rally tyres are gone. I gave the last set away to a young guy who was building a stage car on a budget of washers.

The plan was for a set of Vredestein Snow on skinny rims but I can't get the rims and the Snows sold out very quickly. Like many others I have to satisfy myself with summer tyres, though I do carry two pairs of chains, a 30 year old square-nosed shovel, RAF issue sandbags and a tin of Tesco hairspray.


What I would really like is to get my 1976 Hillman Imp back. I think the only time it was ever stuck was when I parked on the verge of the A8000 to dig somebody else out of the snow. While I was doing that, the snow under the Imp collapsed and it was grounded and sliding down the bank. It only weighed 500kg so a bunch of folk got round it and just picked it up. Hernias all round if you try this with a Mondeo.

In reply to mike123: Don't know if anyone is interested, but I have four virtually unused winter tyres off my now long gone Peugot 205.
Won't fit my Citroen Zara (195 55 15) and I can't get hese anywhere in the UK at the moment?
The ex-peugot tyres - Size - 145 80 R13. If anyone needs them, give me a bell (01463 751230)

In reply to Smiler Cuthbertson:

We've got an old Clio, but the wife is out in it at the moment so can't check what we've got but could be similar. What do you want for them?

J

Currently Grenoble, Chambéry and Lyon are sold out of pneus neiges for most sizes. 1st year of them being compulsory in Germany is being blamed for the shortages.

In reply to mike123: best time to get your winter tyres is spring/summer when your local used tyre dealer is selling all the m+s tyres they have imported in from europe at £10 a tyre

In reply to mike123:

My error. The 4 (virtually new) winter tyres for sale are size

155 70 13s not as previously stated.

In reply to Smiler Cuthbertson:

Smiler if they're 205 65 15's i'd be interested

Cheers Ron