UKC

Does anyone know what centre grade their routes the stiffest? I.E. their idea of easy is most peoples idea of very hard.

In reply to Quarryboy:
craggy

In reply to Quarryboy:

The Barn?

In reply to Quarryboy:

I would say that tdubber could well be right, atleast for the London and South area's anyway. I can't comment on the north as I have not climbed there yet (but im in Stockport next month)

I know that the Craggy route setters try their hardest to get the grades as close to an outside level as possible with plastic.

In reply to The Green Giant: How is the barn stiff?

In reply to Quarryboy: Indefatiguable has the hardest grades I've been to.

In reply to Hvit ut:

Your right its not, I've climbed there and the grades are pretty reasonable.

In reply to Hvit ut:

Oh I haven't lead there since youngy set the routes. Probably different now.

In reply to Quarryboy: i recon nottingham has pretty hard grades not that ive been 2 every indoor centre but its pretty harsh grading i recon!

In reply to Quarryboy:

I think I am registered at about 20 walls and have climbed at several others and I would say Craggy, but they aren't harsh - just realistic. If you can climb a grade at Craggy you can probably climb it on rock. I've not climbed at Nottingham though, which has always had a reputation for stiff bouldering grades.

Awesome walls Liverpool - Crypt set!!

In reply to tdubber:

As a regular at Craggy I like to keep the excuse up my sleeve that they grade hard... however I visited Reading a few months back and found them pretty similar.

In reply to Quarryboy: Harlow is really stiff i couldn't lead the 5+ there after they had been set and the went to the westway and led most of the 6a and 6a+ crazy.

In reply to Monk:

Its interesting hearing that most people think indoors grades are easier than outdoors. Obviously it depends on your level of experience outdoors as well, but I find that onsighting 7c+ and 8a's indoors is bloody hard compared to outdoors. I mainly climb at EICA: Ratho in Edinburgh which I am confident if you can climb the grade their you can do a plus grade at least harder outdoors! I have also climbed at walls such as Kletterhalle Imst in Austria and they have very harsh grading! 7c's feel like 8a's outdoors, but I would say physically, that is normal for ratho, because to be honest, outdoor routes are hardly ever as physical as indoor ones (unless you go to Raven Tor of course : P )

In reply to myoung:

Awesome walls just seems to have it's own style when it comes to bouldering, once you get used to it it all seems to be around the right grade.

In reply to myoung: The crypt is brutal, is rich still setting? used to be nails. The castle can be fairly hard at times too

In reply to Quarryboy:

I usually climb at Nottingham and I've climbed at Mile End, the Castle, Alter Rock (Derby), the Works, the Beacon (Llanberis) and both the old and new Keswick walls and I think Nottingham has the stiffest grades of all those.

But that's just IMHO.

Of all the walls i have been to, Redpoint in Birmingham is hardest. But very good climbs.

In reply to hellboundblr:

Agree with this (Redpoint) - being the hardest of the 20-odd walls I've climbed at.

Their stated aim (per talking to the staff and its in black and white on their website) is to grade harder than outside on the basis that if you do transition to outside then you should be able to lead routes at your "indoor" leading grade easily.

In reply to hellboundblr:

They do grade for full use of all the features, aretes etc. I find climbing walls that pay for featured walls and then exclude their use on most routes bizarre.

In reply to Quarryboy: 5B boulder at Nottingham is easily enough for 7a at Cheddar. k

In reply to goldmember:

Not for a while. Jamie/Ian set the last couple. You should check out the white v0 in the triple roof... Stout!

In reply to wayno265:

Yes, they do. I'm assuming the wall staff know this when they set routes intending - and suceeding IMHO - as stated on the website, to be harder than the same grade outside.

It sounded like you were saying that the grades were not hard if you included all the features, and I and the previous poster might not know that the features were included, and hence thought the grades were hard?

In reply to Quarryboy:
Craggy Guildford

In reply to Quarryboy:

I think Craggy Guildford has the hardest routes in the 6s, and I think they prepare you well for climbing outside at Portland.

The 'fridge' back bouldering wall at the Westway is undoubtedly the hardest bouldering wall I've used.

In reply to Richard Hession:

Punter

Andy F

In reply to Quarryboy:
Craggy is definitely one of the more realistically graded walls I've been, their bouldering always seems a little soft to me though. The routes were pretty 'realistic' and they seemed consistent.
The award for single most outlandishly stiffly graded thing I've climbed goes to the Castle though, which does occasionally have some little gems!

I've climbed at lots of walls all over the UK and abroad and Craggy route grades still feel the stiffest overall. I wish walls would be consistent between themselves. It's always hard to compare to outside because it's a very different skill even reading the route on real rock.

In reply to Pink Marshmallow:

Consistency of grades within each centre would be a good start, let alone between centres!

Broughton (RIP)

In reply to danimal:
I totally agree - Went there on Sat...lead 6a-6a+ at Mk and Npton and could not lead a 5+ at Harlow and the holds are soapy!
*There is a chance i'm just a bit rubbish but my partner found it hard also..

In reply to John_Hat:

My apologies on this one - it states on the website that they grade to the *same* grade as outside, not harder. My mistake!

(n.b. I still think they grade harder, but that may just be me!)

In reply to andi turner: It ain't no sweet shop here at The Indy Andy!
Our grades are known to be some of the stiffest around which we think it's better for training as you are always pushing yourself. It also doesn't feed peoples egos too much which helps settle any grade whores parading around and creates a better atmosphere because everyones having a hard time trying to climb their grade! The most important thing is that the grades are consistent within a wall.

In reply to chummer:

I couldn't agree more. Many people do most of their indoor climbing at a one particular wall, and use the grading system to try to assess their progress as they work on improving their strength, stamina and technique. It is therefore incredibly frustrating when the grading of routes is inconsistent, or varies over time.

It's far more important to me that the grades are consistent rather than whether they are harder or easier than other walls, or outdoors, or whatever.

In reply to Quarryboy:

With my limited knowledge of other climbing walls I'd say Craggy. In actually fact since a I started climbing there a couple of years ago, it seems to have got harder still. Having been making very good progress on 5+, I'm now finding that I can only do some of them. There's a couple of 5's that are awful too

I like Surrey sports (Uni wall) I can climb 5+ there and the climbs and walls are more varied and interesting. I find High sport at Walton is great too. These are both very small walls and change their routes much more than Craggy, but are generally much more fun to climb at....more like being outdoors.

In reply to Richard Hession:

I second that!

In reply to Quarryboy:
I would say that Alien Rock in Edinburgh is pretty stiff!

In reply to waterbaby:

Thats some kind of ironic joke right?

In reply to Mike Hunt:

I take it you don't agree.

In reply to Quarryboy:

Based on all the walls I've used more than once:

Soft: Boulders, Westway, Undercover.

Normal: Dynamic rock, The climbing academy

Hard: Craggy, the works

Ridiculous: The Barn

All subjective, blahblahblah, depends on setter/height ect, blahblahblah

In reply to nutcracker:
>

Really? I've always found the Works pretty soft, often doing 7a or 7b onsight (which I can't do outdoors).

In reply to Quarryboy:

Preston - short, hard and grim...the wall that is

In reply to Patrick Winter:


Yes - of course it is (because i think whatever wall i climb at is the hardest

Seriously? Its awesome there and grades seem pretty close to outdoors to me!

Don't people just say its hard as an excuse?

In reply to nikinko:


That's amazing. I thought Reading was he softest grading I'd ever seen.

My "onsight" and "second go grades at various walls would be:
Reading 6b, 6c
Westway 6b, 6b+
Hatfield 6b, 6b+
Portland 6a+, 6a+
Castle 6a+, 6b
Amersham 6a, 6a+
Craggy Guildford 6a, 6a+
France provinces 5, 5+

In reply to Quarryboy:

No one has mentioned K2. I find the grading there to be erratic and generally stiff. Some of the 5s and 6a's have nasty stings in the tail just when you least need it. There is also far too much 6b and above on the lead wall at the expense of lower grade climbs. Not a friendly venue for the average climber and aimed at the elite

In reply to JJL: Climbed at Reading for the first time recently and found the grading wildly inconsistent. Raced up a 6b O/S (unusual for me) but found one 6a that took loads of working and was absolute nails for the grade.
I regard the Craggy grades as realistic, found Undercover Rock in Bristol very soft. My local wall High Sports (Alton) has gone from quite soft in its early days (2 or 3 years ago) to fairly stiff these days, although like most walls there is the odd gift and some definite sandbags.

In reply to chummer: would agree with the indy grades, and i have noticed that there all ways appears to be a v2/3 problem thats easily viewed from the counter, and is what i class as an old style HVS problem,i.e its either a doddle, or absolutely impossible, and great entertainment for the staff!!

In reply to The Ivanator:
I found the Reading grades were a little patchy, the bouldering was fairly hard and the routes generally soft. If the black slopey 7a at the back left (toprope) is really a 7a then I'd be amazed but I found a white 6a left of the slabs that was really very tricky.

I thought it was generally very good though and for a new wall that has to train up a bunch of route setters it could have been a lot worse!

In reply to Quarryboy:

I don't think I've climbed anywhere with consistent enough grading to say one center is harder than another. Most places are simply too erratic and the impression you get is more down to luck of the draw in your route/problem selection than a systematic offset.

jk

In reply to Quarryboy:
Whickham Thorns outdoor artificial boulder; you get a 5+ for a crimpy horizontal overhang with a huge heal hook up to a small hidden pocket that is normally full of water or pebbles (the local chavs add at least 2 grades in the way)

In reply to Bulls Crack:


i didn't think anyone would say preston!
compared to preston,North face at warrington was bloody hard!

In reply to Quarryboy: thank god someone has said warrington is hard. makes me feel a bit better for being so c**p

In reply to Quarryboy: From a climbing walls commercial perspective their must be pressure to pamper the punter's self perception and grade soft. I admire those who , if anything go the opposite direction in order to maximise training and give their customers a nice suprise when they get out.

One of the problems you will generally get is the erratic nature of the grading. I think the best people to determine whether a route is 5, 5+ or 6a are the people who struggle a bit on those grades - to the route setter it just feels easy. Good practice would be ot post up a new route at a suspected grade and let people come back if they think it's tough/easy

In reply to snailonvalium: Preston's grades seem to only increase relative to how much of a reach there is on the cruz of the route. North West Face I have always found to be quite well set

In reply to Quarryboy:

Amersham used to be desperate for the grades - think they used to have a route setter that was particularly tall, but haven't been there for years.

They were also a nightmare to hold onto without a ton of chalk - humidity from the swimming pool next door and lack of ventilation at the top meant it could be like climbing in a rainforest!

In reply to Quarryboy:

I actually find the depot grades very stiff. But that might just be me...

In reply to snailonvalium: I'd say NWF grading was pretty much on the money. Some of the routes may be .5 of a grade under, but better to be under than over.

Andy F

In reply to John_Hat:



"Their stated aim (per talking to the staff and its in black and white on their website) is to grade harder than outside on the basis that if you do transition to outside then you should be able to lead routes at your "indoor" leading grade easily."

wow man...... which of our lovely staff was it that explained that to you?

aaaaand where exactly on the website is it in black and white?

no hard feeling and all, in honesty not too concerned really just interested in truth that's all

In reply to andy farnell: haven't been to nwf in a while. Do they since give british trad grade to climbs? Always found that a bit strange...

In reply to Quarryboy: i think it also depends a lot on where you are used to climbing and what you like, i find that if i climb in one centre for a while i get quite used to the style of the setters and each centre has its own style. I occassionally go down to craggy and climb and the grades feel stiff but i think its mainly because i dont like the setting, i often find that hard bouldering are just plain akward

In reply to Quarryboy: Broughton wall!!

In reply to Quarryboy: I started climbing at Redpoint in Birmingham and then the Westway in London and found the Westway much easier. Plas y Brenin wall seemed similar to ww so would say Redpoint!

In reply to squick:
Another vote for Amersham. I go to about 8 walls regularly in the area. Get up 6A+/6B everywhere else, which equates to about 5+ at Amersham

In reply to nutcracker:

Undercover routes soft? Find the ends ridiculously desperate on every climb, always a crazy crimpy sequence with impossibly hard clips after passing the lip.

In reply to b3n99:

Ye Undercover rock tends to be easyish climbing up to like the last 2 quickdraws then it suddenly becomes desperate.

Liam's routes at the Westway, before the usual upgrading, are definitely the stiffest I have ever climbed. Slimfast's routes, also at the Westway and before the usual downgrading, are by far the softest. Westway grades are pretty spot on otherwise and on average I climb harder outdoor than indoor, i.e. at the Westway. I can't say the same for the bouldering grades. They're usually all over the place. I can climb V7 max or V2 max depending on the set of problems, or even not being able to climb V3, but being able to flash V5 on the same set.