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Is it possible? Just wondering if anyone has done it? If so, how did you go about it/how long did it take?
I'm talking here about leading 8a sport and it's trad equivalent (E7?).
Thanks
I'm talking here about leading 8a sport and it's trad equivalent (E7?).
Thanks
In reply to iforwms:
Climbing 8a is harder than learning proper punctuation.
Or is it?
Seriously tho, the answer is undoubtedly yes, it is possible.
Climbing 8a is harder than learning proper punctuation.
Or is it?
Seriously tho, the answer is undoubtedly yes, it is possible.
In reply to iforwms:
I'm interested in question 2!
Has it been done, how by and how long did it take?
I'm interested in question 2!
Has it been done, how by and how long did it take?
In reply to iforwms:
absolutely undoubtedly, and with many many examples in the UK alone at 8a.
Tony Mitchell, did Unjustified 8c at Malham, in '93, with a full-time job ( if I remember correctly a GP)
the E7 part - no idea.
absolutely undoubtedly, and with many many examples in the UK alone at 8a.
Tony Mitchell, did Unjustified 8c at Malham, in '93, with a full-time job ( if I remember correctly a GP)
the E7 part - no idea.
In reply to bouldery bits:
A friend of mine has climbed 8a, I'm pretty sure. Certainly close to it. He works full time. Trains like a machine 4 days a week come rain or shine. Very disciplined with it, it needs big drive but is possible!
A friend of mine has climbed 8a, I'm pretty sure. Certainly close to it. He works full time. Trains like a machine 4 days a week come rain or shine. Very disciplined with it, it needs big drive but is possible!
In reply to iforwms: I know lots of people who work full time and regularly climb 8a (and much harder). It's not that difficult, but it does require a fair bit of dedication.
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to richardh:
Tony was a GP at the time. Unjustified was the first 8c in Yorkshire. Even more impressively had 3 kids!
Andy F
> (In reply to iforwms)
>
> absolutely undoubtedly, and with many many examples in the UK alone at 8a.
>
> Tony Mitchell, did Unjustified 8c at Malham, in '93, with a full-time job ( if I remember correctly a GP)
>
> the E7 part - no idea.
>
> absolutely undoubtedly, and with many many examples in the UK alone at 8a.
>
> Tony Mitchell, did Unjustified 8c at Malham, in '93, with a full-time job ( if I remember correctly a GP)
>
> the E7 part - no idea.
Tony was a GP at the time. Unjustified was the first 8c in Yorkshire. Even more impressively had 3 kids!
Andy F
In reply to iforwms:
I reference the entire french nation. 8a climbers to a man, mind you they have a 35 hour working week
is it just me that find's the equating of sports grades to E7 somewhat bizarre. How can you compare clipping bolts every 2 meters to leading a gritstone route with one piece of gear somewhere near the top placed with your teeth.
I'd say that E7 was a substantially more troublesome challenge.
I reference the entire french nation. 8a climbers to a man, mind you they have a 35 hour working week
is it just me that find's the equating of sports grades to E7 somewhat bizarre. How can you compare clipping bolts every 2 meters to leading a gritstone route with one piece of gear somewhere near the top placed with your teeth.
I'd say that E7 was a substantially more troublesome challenge.
In reply to mutt:
I'd say that an 8a sport climber would find an E7 harder. But I think the reverse would also be true, an E7 trad leader might well struggle on and 8a.
> (In reply to iforwms)
>
>
> is it just me that find's the equating of sports grades to E7 somewhat bizarre. How can you compare clipping bolts every 2 meters to leading a gritstone route with one piece of gear somewhere near the top placed with your teeth.
>
> I'd say that E7 was a substantially more troublesome challenge.
>
> I'd say that E7 was a substantially more troublesome challenge.
I'd say that an 8a sport climber would find an E7 harder. But I think the reverse would also be true, an E7 trad leader might well struggle on and 8a.
In reply to iforwms:
My dad still onsights many 5.12s and has recently sent a few 13as 2nd or 3rd go and he's almost 50 so i'd say if you were younger it should be no problem as long as you make the most of the opportunities you do have to get out.
My dad still onsights many 5.12s and has recently sent a few 13as 2nd or 3rd go and he's almost 50 so i'd say if you were younger it should be no problem as long as you make the most of the opportunities you do have to get out.
In reply to iforwms: Why on earth wouldn't/couldn't it be achievable with a full time job?!?!
In reply to jon:
They're probably quite comparable as long as you are comparing redpoint with headpoint, or both onsight. But redpointing 8a is very much easier than onsighting E7.
They're probably quite comparable as long as you are comparing redpoint with headpoint, or both onsight. But redpointing 8a is very much easier than onsighting E7.
In reply to mutt:
Erm.... 95% of UK climbers don't lead gritstone E7's and place gear with their teeth. They abseil down , place the gear with their hands, then lead the route
E
Erm.... 95% of UK climbers don't lead gritstone E7's and place gear with their teeth. They abseil down , place the gear with their hands, then lead the route
E
In reply to jon:
I don't think we should split the world neatly between sport and trad. I do both respectably and having trad climbed a lot the sport is a p*ss easy because it really isn't at all scary. for me at lest 8a is eminently achievable and frankly I'd have to be nuts to climb E7 because it might end badly.
I don't think we should split the world neatly between sport and trad. I do both respectably and having trad climbed a lot the sport is a p*ss easy because it really isn't at all scary. for me at lest 8a is eminently achievable and frankly I'd have to be nuts to climb E7 because it might end badly.
In reply to john arran:
I agree John. But you've missed something out... surely then it follows that headpointing an E7 is easier than onsighting an 8a.
> (In reply to jon)
>
> They're probably quite comparable as long as you are comparing redpoint with headpoint, or both onsight. But redpointing 8a is very much easier than onsighting E7.
>
> They're probably quite comparable as long as you are comparing redpoint with headpoint, or both onsight. But redpointing 8a is very much easier than onsighting E7.
I agree John. But you've missed something out... surely then it follows that headpointing an E7 is easier than onsighting an 8a.
In reply to iforwms: The 8a to E7 comparison was taken from the Rockfax guide (for well-protected trad routes).
Good to know that people have done it.
Hard to compare the two though, from what I gather sport routes above 7b+ ish are redpoint grades anyway. Whilst all trad grades are for onsight only (correct me if I'm wrong!).
Are any if these guys active on here. , so they could share how they went about it?
Good to know that people have done it.
Hard to compare the two though, from what I gather sport routes above 7b+ ish are redpoint grades anyway. Whilst all trad grades are for onsight only (correct me if I'm wrong!).
Are any if these guys active on here. , so they could share how they went about it?
In reply to mutt:
I don't and never have done. I, like you, enjoy both equally, though I do far more sport climbing now.
Interestingly your hardest onsights on your profile bear this out. Now, I've never onsighted 8a and I've never climbed E7, but I can see the equivalence of the grades - as long as the style is the same, as John said - and as far as I'm concerned, that equivalence continues on down through the grades. Certainly my hardest onsights come exactly within those accepted equivalences.
> (In reply to jon)
>
> I don't think we should split the world neatly between sport and trad.
>
> I don't think we should split the world neatly between sport and trad.
I don't and never have done. I, like you, enjoy both equally, though I do far more sport climbing now.
> I do both respectably and having trad climbed a lot the sport is a p*ss easy because it really isn't at all scary. for me at lest 8a is eminently achievable and frankly I'd have to be nuts to climb E7 because it might end badly.
Interestingly your hardest onsights on your profile bear this out. Now, I've never onsighted 8a and I've never climbed E7, but I can see the equivalence of the grades - as long as the style is the same, as John said - and as far as I'm concerned, that equivalence continues on down through the grades. Certainly my hardest onsights come exactly within those accepted equivalences.
In reply to iforwms: shes done F8c >>> http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=277
In reply to jon:
Am I missing something? Because after looking at his profile I'd say that climbing 8a was a long way from being 'eminently achievable' for him.
> (In reply to mutt)
> [...]
> [...]
>
> Interestingly your hardest onsights on your profile bear this out.
> Interestingly your hardest onsights on your profile bear this out.
Am I missing something? Because after looking at his profile I'd say that climbing 8a was a long way from being 'eminently achievable' for him.
In reply to Anonymous:
Yes, you missed my point that his onsight grades (E2 and 6c) represent the inbalance that he refers to, ie seeing 8a as achievable, but not E7. Perhaps I didn't word my reply wery well.
Yes, you missed my point that his onsight grades (E2 and 6c) represent the inbalance that he refers to, ie seeing 8a as achievable, but not E7. Perhaps I didn't word my reply wery well.
In reply to jon:
I see your point, but I'd counter that trad grades don't increase linearly like sport - there are E7's out there that are only 7a+, which is a lot more achievable than 8a.
I see your point, but I'd counter that trad grades don't increase linearly like sport - there are E7's out there that are only 7a+, which is a lot more achievable than 8a.
In reply to mutt:
you're talking quite the talk, there.
> I do both respectably and having trad climbed a lot the sport is a p*ss easy because it really isn't at all scary. for me at lest 8a is eminently achievable
you're talking quite the talk, there.
I love it on here, you're all such wonderful experts.
In reply to iforwms: For someone who climbs regularly, likes to train, and is motivated to improve, yes.
9a however might be a different story..
9a however might be a different story..
In reply to iforwms:
I've known dozens of people who have climbed 8a or the equivalent, some quite regularly. Nearly all had full-time jobs.
Time taken has varied from 2 to >20 years from starting climbing regularly.
Almost invariably they achieved this through putting in the mileage, indoors or outside, >3 days a week for 2-3 years. They decided they wanted to get better and put in the effort required. It's not about luck, or being blessed with huge amounts of talent, you just have to be prepared to do the volume and intensity of climbing that any keen amateur in a sport like running wouldn't think twice about. This volume of training is only a little more time-consuming than your typical twice-a-week at the wall UK social climber but the intensity is higher. You have to work hard when you train.
It is not very difficult to fit this around full-time work but you might have to curtail your social life somewhat. Often these >8a climbers are men (mostly) in their 30s, 40s or 50s who have grown out of going out late and getting pissed regularly and decided to focus properly on climbing to see what they can achieve before they get too old.
> Is it possible? Just wondering if anyone has done it? If so, how did you go about it/how long did it take?
>> I'm talking here about leading 8a sport and it's trad equivalent (E7?).
I've known dozens of people who have climbed 8a or the equivalent, some quite regularly. Nearly all had full-time jobs.
Time taken has varied from 2 to >20 years from starting climbing regularly.
Almost invariably they achieved this through putting in the mileage, indoors or outside, >3 days a week for 2-3 years. They decided they wanted to get better and put in the effort required. It's not about luck, or being blessed with huge amounts of talent, you just have to be prepared to do the volume and intensity of climbing that any keen amateur in a sport like running wouldn't think twice about. This volume of training is only a little more time-consuming than your typical twice-a-week at the wall UK social climber but the intensity is higher. You have to work hard when you train.
It is not very difficult to fit this around full-time work but you might have to curtail your social life somewhat. Often these >8a climbers are men (mostly) in their 30s, 40s or 50s who have grown out of going out late and getting pissed regularly and decided to focus properly on climbing to see what they can achieve before they get too old.
In reply to Anonymous:
If it's E7 and only 7a+ then surely that puts it even further outside his range than the generally accepted E7 = 8a. It's the level of commitment (lack of protection) that seems to be a barrier to him, not the technical difficulty, no?
> (In reply to jon)
> I see your point, but I'd counter that trad grades don't increase linearly like sport - there are E7's out there that are only 7a+, which is a lot more achievable than 8a.
> I see your point, but I'd counter that trad grades don't increase linearly like sport - there are E7's out there that are only 7a+, which is a lot more achievable than 8a.
If it's E7 and only 7a+ then surely that puts it even further outside his range than the generally accepted E7 = 8a. It's the level of commitment (lack of protection) that seems to be a barrier to him, not the technical difficulty, no?
In reply to iforwms: I used to work with a guy who headpointed E8 whilst working full-time.
In reply to scooott:
Steve Mclure. Dave Macleod seems to work about 60 hours a week....
James
> 9a however might be a different story..
Steve Mclure. Dave Macleod seems to work about 60 hours a week....
James
In reply to mutt:
Yet another grit-centric answer. Not all E7s are bold grit routes, there are other rock-types out there and some even offer, shock horror, safe hard trad routes!
> is it just me that find's the equating of sports grades to E7 somewhat bizarre. How can you compare clipping bolts every 2 meters to leading a gritstone route with one piece of gear somewhere near the top placed with your teeth.
Yet another grit-centric answer. Not all E7s are bold grit routes, there are other rock-types out there and some even offer, shock horror, safe hard trad routes!
In reply to jon:
Definitely, yes. Most people onsighting E4s could headpoint some E7s. Onsighting 8a is way harder than anything you'll ever find on an E4.
> surely then it follows that headpointing an E7 is easier than onsighting an 8a.
Definitely, yes. Most people onsighting E4s could headpoint some E7s. Onsighting 8a is way harder than anything you'll ever find on an E4.
In reply to andy farnell:
That is impressive! I'm currently struggling to maintain any decent form with 2 children under 6 yrs of age. Broken nights sleep, illness, etc on top of long days at work (sometimes 10hrs and occaisionally 6 days) makes planning and sticking to training hard. Some weeks I feel like packing it in and then I'll have a good week that keeps me going.
I guess as long as I don't decline any further I'll be ok
J
> (In reply to richardh)
> [...]
>
> Tony was a GP at the time. Unjustified was the first 8c in Yorkshire. Even more impressively had 3 kids!
>
> Andy F
> [...]
>
> Tony was a GP at the time. Unjustified was the first 8c in Yorkshire. Even more impressively had 3 kids!
>
> Andy F
That is impressive! I'm currently struggling to maintain any decent form with 2 children under 6 yrs of age. Broken nights sleep, illness, etc on top of long days at work (sometimes 10hrs and occaisionally 6 days) makes planning and sticking to training hard. Some weeks I feel like packing it in and then I'll have a good week that keeps me going.
I guess as long as I don't decline any further I'll be ok
J
In reply to iforwms:
I haven't done one yet, but 8a is a very achievable goal for the focussed part-timer. 8a just isn't that hard anymore, and 7c is approaching a rest.
> Is it possible? Just wondering if anyone has done it? If so, how did you go about it/how long did it take?
>
> I'm talking here about leading 8a sport and it's trad equivalent (E7?).
>
> Thanks
>
> I'm talking here about leading 8a sport and it's trad equivalent (E7?).
>
> Thanks
I haven't done one yet, but 8a is a very achievable goal for the focussed part-timer. 8a just isn't that hard anymore, and 7c is approaching a rest.
In reply to iforwms:
Yes, but be careful what job you do. If you go for tree planting or building and train intesnsly for climbing I would not like your chances of coming back from injury too quickly. Get a cushty office job with flexi time!
Yes, but be careful what job you do. If you go for tree planting or building and train intesnsly for climbing I would not like your chances of coming back from injury too quickly. Get a cushty office job with flexi time!
In reply to M.Taylor: Lucky I've got a cushty job with flexi-time then isn't it
In reply to iforwms: It is really not that hard. I myself am working fulltime (~45h/week)and have a non climbing wife and 2 little childs. I am going to a (good) bouldering wall twice a week for about 3h and climbing outdoors on Sunday. I do climb regurlarly in the region of 7c -7c+ and sometimes I am able to tear down a 8a or 8a+!
I think it is mostly determination and will. Most of my friends just don't pull as hard as they could. There are always excuses around, but it's mostly inside your brain!
I think it is mostly determination and will. Most of my friends just don't pull as hard as they could. There are always excuses around, but it's mostly inside your brain!
In reply to john arran:
The more interesting is between onsighting a given trad grade (that being how it's usually done) and redpointing a given sport grade (being how that's usually done). Historically this has been said to be E5/8a, which I've always thought was about right.
jcm
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
>
> Definitely, yes. Most people onsighting E4s could headpoint some E7s. Onsighting 8a is way harder than anything you'll ever find on an E4.
> [...]
>
> Definitely, yes. Most people onsighting E4s could headpoint some E7s. Onsighting 8a is way harder than anything you'll ever find on an E4.
The more interesting is between onsighting a given trad grade (that being how it's usually done) and redpointing a given sport grade (being how that's usually done). Historically this has been said to be E5/8a, which I've always thought was about right.
jcm
In reply to iforwms:
In simple terms yes, I am aware of many including my partner who has a full time high pressure job. She has coincidently climbed 2 8a's and 2 E7's in redpoint/headpoint style. Both E7's being completed much quicker and with significantly less working.
Me, I just too lazy, untalented, unmotivated, injury prone etc.. etc........ but given the right route just maybe?
In simple terms yes, I am aware of many including my partner who has a full time high pressure job. She has coincidently climbed 2 8a's and 2 E7's in redpoint/headpoint style. Both E7's being completed much quicker and with significantly less working.
Me, I just too lazy, untalented, unmotivated, injury prone etc.. etc........ but given the right route just maybe?
In reply to iforwms:
Apologies if its already been mentioned but to demonstrate whats possible for a weekend warrior doing a full time job Adam Taylor has recently climbed his second 9a in Red River Gorge.
http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/adam-taylor-claims-second-ascent-p...
Apologies if its already been mentioned but to demonstrate whats possible for a weekend warrior doing a full time job Adam Taylor has recently climbed his second 9a in Red River Gorge.
http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/adam-taylor-claims-second-ascent-p...
In reply to chris_j_s: And what's the name of the very attractive American woman who recently did, IIRC, 8c+, who is a full time specialist nurse and has something like 7 young kids? Very impressive.
In reply to TobyA: This one (mentioned above) http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=277
In reply to Dave Orsman: Yeah. Totally impressive, but that video has to be sponsored by a shampoo! She's sending 8c with silky perfect hair.
In reply to quadmyre:
Christ Almighty. At last somebody speaks the truth. After all what is hard climbing about? Well, I should imagine it's about.....hard climbing.
> (In reply to mutt)
>
> [...]
>
> Yet another grit-centric answer. Not all E7s are bold grit routes, there are other rock-types out there and some even offer, shock horror, safe hard trad routes!
>
> [...]
>
> Yet another grit-centric answer. Not all E7s are bold grit routes, there are other rock-types out there and some even offer, shock horror, safe hard trad routes!
Christ Almighty. At last somebody speaks the truth. After all what is hard climbing about? Well, I should imagine it's about.....hard climbing.
In reply to iforwms: Can't be hacked reading the whole thread. Of the people I know climbing above 8a, many have full time jobs.
I'm working an 8a at Dumby just now, 10 months after a major knee op, (so really only been back climbing 5 months) I'm not particularly talented or strong.
So my answer to your question is not only yes, but yes and it's fairly commonplace.
The full-time climbers are all doing >8c these days...
I'm working an 8a at Dumby just now, 10 months after a major knee op, (so really only been back climbing 5 months) I'm not particularly talented or strong.
So my answer to your question is not only yes, but yes and it's fairly commonplace.
The full-time climbers are all doing >8c these days...
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