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Can you wire a plug? (BS1363 compliant mains plug for fans of pedantry)
I was talking to a colleague recently who didn't know how to do one or see the point in learning as "everything has a plug on it already".
Is this simple domestic skill now redundant in the age of throwaway electrical goods and the moulded on plug? Does anyone know if it is still taught in science lessons at school?
I was talking to a colleague recently who didn't know how to do one or see the point in learning as "everything has a plug on it already".
Is this simple domestic skill now redundant in the age of throwaway electrical goods and the moulded on plug? Does anyone know if it is still taught in science lessons at school?
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I don't know if it's actually taught in Scottish schools, but the colour of the wires is part of the Standard Grade syllabus.
I don't know if it's actually taught in Scottish schools, but the colour of the wires is part of the Standard Grade syllabus.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
bLue to the left bRown to the right.
the moulded plugs are supposed to be a safety thing, rather than a disposable thing.
bLue to the left bRown to the right.
the moulded plugs are supposed to be a safety thing, rather than a disposable thing.
In reply to Reach>Talent: It is still taught in GCSE. Well... they need to know the colours of wires and what the fuse does. But i imagine most teachers get them to wire up a plug.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Yes, haven't had to do it in an age though. Still reasonably confident I can still do it though.
Yes, haven't had to do it in an age though. Still reasonably confident I can still do it though.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Something that (I believe) is often missed, asides from what colour goes where etc, is how to properly strip the insulation without taking most of the core with it. Proper wire-strippers when used wrong will still do this.
I've seen wiring jobs which 'technically' are sound (+ve to +ve, etc) but practically are shoddy jobs. Users of black insulating tape for making connections are the worst.
Something that (I believe) is often missed, asides from what colour goes where etc, is how to properly strip the insulation without taking most of the core with it. Proper wire-strippers when used wrong will still do this.
I've seen wiring jobs which 'technically' are sound (+ve to +ve, etc) but practically are shoddy jobs. Users of black insulating tape for making connections are the worst.
In reply to OwenF:
I use a knife normally as I've usually got one to hand and rarely have a pair of wirestrippers when I need them. My pet hate is people who don't shorten the live and neutral wires, but I'm a bit of a pedant
I use a knife normally as I've usually got one to hand and rarely have a pair of wirestrippers when I need them. My pet hate is people who don't shorten the live and neutral wires, but I'm a bit of a pedant
In reply to Reach>Talent:
A tool is a tool, its the workman which directs it to do the correct job
Same. I've be conditioned from an early age that any job or task is worth doing right or not all. The guitar effects pedals I built would disagree but then hours inhaling melted solder does things to the brain!
A tool is a tool, its the workman which directs it to do the correct job
Same. I've be conditioned from an early age that any job or task is worth doing right or not all. The guitar effects pedals I built would disagree but then hours inhaling melted solder does things to the brain!
In reply to OwenF:
Yeah, on HV joints it isn't best practice, not so bad on a bit of LV SWA though
> (In reply to mkean)
>
-strippers when used wrong will still do this.>
>
> I've seen wiring jobs which 'technically' are sound (+ve to +ve, etc) but practically are shoddy jobs. Users of black insulating tape for making connections are the worst.
> I've seen wiring jobs which 'technically' are sound (+ve to +ve, etc) but practically are shoddy jobs. Users of black insulating tape for making connections are the worst.
Yeah, on HV joints it isn't best practice, not so bad on a bit of LV SWA though
In reply to Reach>Talent: Yes, it's not rocket science. Although it's easy to get wrong, it may work but not be safe. Which I think some people may not grasp. Wrote off half of the circuits in a friends new house after seeing some of the wiring done on the mains by the previous owner. How noone had been zapped by the live light fittings or the house hadnt burnt down was beyond me.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
In reply to MJ:
You don't just work down the packet from the big one to the small one then?
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
>
> Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
You don't just work down the packet from the big one to the small one then?
In reply to MJ:
Fuses are a complete pain they keep going wrong, so my top tip is to get a big nail and cut it to length, no more sudden and inconvenient losses of power.
Fuses are a complete pain they keep going wrong, so my top tip is to get a big nail and cut it to length, no more sudden and inconvenient losses of power.
In reply to winhill:
I remember it on the basis that live and neutral are the opposite of the colours you'd expect. To my mind blue is a lively, electrical-sparky kind of colour while brown is beige-y/neutural-y and basically dull.
As an old fart, when the colours changed I always thought that brown was a much more obvious colour for earth, but at least it's difficult to forget that yellow and green stripes is the odd one out.
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> bLue to the left bRown to the right.
>
> bLue to the left bRown to the right.
I remember it on the basis that live and neutral are the opposite of the colours you'd expect. To my mind blue is a lively, electrical-sparky kind of colour while brown is beige-y/neutural-y and basically dull.
As an old fart, when the colours changed I always thought that brown was a much more obvious colour for earth, but at least it's difficult to forget that yellow and green stripes is the odd one out.
In reply to Reach>Talent: I don't know if it is taught at school, but it is something we would make sure the Scouts could do.
In reply to marsbar:
Not sure how wise that is. You teach them to wire plugs, you teach them to start fires. How long before some bright spark makes the connection??? Badoom-tish, etc...
> (In reply to mkean) it is something we would make sure the Scouts could do.
Not sure how wise that is. You teach them to wire plugs, you teach them to start fires. How long before some bright spark makes the connection??? Badoom-tish, etc...
In reply to marsbar: Yeah....but how would Bear demonstrate the wiring of a 13Amp plug?
In reply to shaggypops:
He'd stay in a nearby hotel whilst a sparky did it off-camera. Then he'd take his shirt off and witter on about how very dangerous it all is. He used to be in the SAS, you know...
> (In reply to marsbar) Yeah....but how would Bear demonstrate the wiring of a 13Amp plug?
He'd stay in a nearby hotel whilst a sparky did it off-camera. Then he'd take his shirt off and witter on about how very dangerous it all is. He used to be in the SAS, you know...
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I work in a lighting shop and as part of my job repair a lot of fittings/lamps and it's really really shocking some of the dodgy repair jobs that have been done on lights.
Things like a lamp that obviously had it's cable replaced and was re-wired by just twisting them together and wrapping the whole lot in duct tape with a 13amp fuse in the (badly) wired plugtop just to top it off. Or lamp holders where the previous person obviously lost the screws that hold the wires in the connectors so just pushed them in and screwed down the holder!
I work in a lighting shop and as part of my job repair a lot of fittings/lamps and it's really really shocking some of the dodgy repair jobs that have been done on lights.
Things like a lamp that obviously had it's cable replaced and was re-wired by just twisting them together and wrapping the whole lot in duct tape with a 13amp fuse in the (badly) wired plugtop just to top it off. Or lamp holders where the previous person obviously lost the screws that hold the wires in the connectors so just pushed them in and screwed down the holder!
In reply to Mots d'Invers: Hmm. "Someone" also showed them how to make fire with wire wool and batteries. Don't try this at home kids!!!
In reply to Reach>Talent:
My preferred tool is a pair of scissors. Cut slightly into the wire, twirl the scissors, job done
> (In reply to OwenF)
> I use a knife normally as I've usually got one to hand
> I use a knife normally as I've usually got one to hand
My preferred tool is a pair of scissors. Cut slightly into the wire, twirl the scissors, job done
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Shocking how many can't replace the right fuse in their car either. That is of course if they actually carry spare fuses and bulbs in the car...
Shocking how many can't replace the right fuse in their car either. That is of course if they actually carry spare fuses and bulbs in the car...
In reply to Reach>Talent:
as part of the int 1 physics course in scotland the colours of the wires and where they go are taught but i dont think there is actually a practical lesson although this could be dependant on the teacher.
not sure for definate(sp?) as i did int 2 last 2 years but i certainly know how to wire a plug
as part of the int 1 physics course in scotland the colours of the wires and where they go are taught but i dont think there is actually a practical lesson although this could be dependant on the teacher.
not sure for definate(sp?) as i did int 2 last 2 years but i certainly know how to wire a plug
In reply to MJ:
Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
Blue sump fuse works in most instances including under water, although it stinks to hell and you'll need to use a primer to set off a high explosive charge if you are blowing up a large appliance.
I used to have a table of approximate fuse values for various household objects ranging from tinfoil - 6" nails, it is probably a good thing I can't find it.
Additionally, how many people know how to work out what fuse should be used for individual appliances.
Blue sump fuse works in most instances including under water, although it stinks to hell and you'll need to use a primer to set off a high explosive charge if you are blowing up a large appliance.
I used to have a table of approximate fuse values for various household objects ranging from tinfoil - 6" nails, it is probably a good thing I can't find it.
In reply to Reach>Talent: No problems wiring a plug, but the people who really surprise me are those who can't use google to find out how! Wake up world the information is at your fingertips!
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I was taught it in the 2nd year of Grammar school, 5 years ago, in a physics lesson; we did the whole lot with wire strippers etc. It's part of the GCSE physics syllabus to know how a fuse works and what colour the wires are, but due to the insanely tight timescales of the GCSE syllabus (in physics in particular) actually doing it wasn't an option at the time. I've also done it myself once when I nicked the record player off the top of my dad's old sound system (in a fantastic example of my dad's idea of electrical safety, all the components - record player, amp, CD changer, tape player - were wired into one plug). I can calculate fuses too, but then, I'm about to start an electrical engineering degree at a top uni, so I don't think you can use me as a barometer for the modern youth.
I was taught it in the 2nd year of Grammar school, 5 years ago, in a physics lesson; we did the whole lot with wire strippers etc. It's part of the GCSE physics syllabus to know how a fuse works and what colour the wires are, but due to the insanely tight timescales of the GCSE syllabus (in physics in particular) actually doing it wasn't an option at the time. I've also done it myself once when I nicked the record player off the top of my dad's old sound system (in a fantastic example of my dad's idea of electrical safety, all the components - record player, amp, CD changer, tape player - were wired into one plug). I can calculate fuses too, but then, I'm about to start an electrical engineering degree at a top uni, so I don't think you can use me as a barometer for the modern youth.
In reply to Reach>Talent: Yes.
In reply to winhill:
Depends which way people hold it, so you are only correct if the Earth Pin is furthest away from you, it's wrong if you hold it the other way up (as I tend to do.)
Better to say Brown (or Red) to the Fuse.
(dependant on the age of the wire you have)
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> bLue to the left bRown to the right.
>
>.......>
> bLue to the left bRown to the right.
>
Depends which way people hold it, so you are only correct if the Earth Pin is furthest away from you, it's wrong if you hold it the other way up (as I tend to do.)
Better to say Brown (or Red) to the Fuse.
(dependant on the age of the wire you have)
In reply to Reach>Talent:
That's not pedantic at all. The whole design of the plug is based around what happens if the lead gets pulled out of it. The brown should be shortest and pull out of the live connection, followed by the blue (neutral), leaving the appliance still earthed by the longest wire.
Modern moulded on plugs and EU double insulating regs on portable appliances have kept many people alive that would otherwise have been candidates for Darwin awards when it comes to electrical safety. The electrical and construction and use regs run to thousands of pages, many of which are based around designing circuits that protect the users from their own ineptitude and stupidity.
> (In reply to OwenF)
> My pet hate is people who don't shorten the live and neutral wires, but I'm a bit of a pedant
> My pet hate is people who don't shorten the live and neutral wires, but I'm a bit of a pedant
That's not pedantic at all. The whole design of the plug is based around what happens if the lead gets pulled out of it. The brown should be shortest and pull out of the live connection, followed by the blue (neutral), leaving the appliance still earthed by the longest wire.
Modern moulded on plugs and EU double insulating regs on portable appliances have kept many people alive that would otherwise have been candidates for Darwin awards when it comes to electrical safety. The electrical and construction and use regs run to thousands of pages, many of which are based around designing circuits that protect the users from their own ineptitude and stupidity.
In reply to marsbar:
If you do this on a digital cooking scale, you can see the weight of the wool going up as it burns. Nice science experiment and perfectly safe to do at home by the way.
If you do this on a digital cooking scale, you can see the weight of the wool going up as it burns. Nice science experiment and perfectly safe to do at home by the way.
In reply to Eric the Red: I didn't know that. Will have to try it now.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
No mention of wire length and the internal dressing of the plug or correct use of cord grip at the bottom of the plug so far. It's not just about putting the right wire in the right hole you know.
Not only can I wire a standard plug, but having spent many more hours of my life than I would like to have done portable appliance testing I would challenge anyone to a race for doing so.
Sad.
No mention of wire length and the internal dressing of the plug or correct use of cord grip at the bottom of the plug so far. It's not just about putting the right wire in the right hole you know.
Not only can I wire a standard plug, but having spent many more hours of my life than I would like to have done portable appliance testing I would challenge anyone to a race for doing so.
Sad.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I learnt at school (a few years ago now). But out here, it has to be checked/certified by a qualified electrician or your insurance is invalid. ffs.
I learnt at school (a few years ago now). But out here, it has to be checked/certified by a qualified electrician or your insurance is invalid. ffs.
In reply to teflonpete:
I agree with TeflonPete, you realise that so called H&S 'red tape' has to exist after you've been around assessing people's stupidity for a while.
A particularly good one I remember was the switch on a kettle had broken so some bright spark worked out that by shoving a copper nail into a gap around the side of the switch and wiggling it around he could still get the kettle to boil. Been doing this for a couple of months by the time I saw it apparently.
Rubber soles are the enemy of evolution.
I agree with TeflonPete, you realise that so called H&S 'red tape' has to exist after you've been around assessing people's stupidity for a while.
A particularly good one I remember was the switch on a kettle had broken so some bright spark worked out that by shoving a copper nail into a gap around the side of the switch and wiggling it around he could still get the kettle to boil. Been doing this for a couple of months by the time I saw it apparently.
Rubber soles are the enemy of evolution.
In reply to NorthernGrit:
So good/true it's worth repeating!
> Rubber soles are the enemy of evolution.
So good/true it's worth repeating!
In reply to Eric the Red:
The weight of the wool goes UP, as it burns ?
Why ?
> (In reply to marsbar)
>
> If you do this on a digital cooking scale, you can see the weight of the wool going up as it burns. Nice science experiment and perfectly safe to do at home by the way.
>
> If you do this on a digital cooking scale, you can see the weight of the wool going up as it burns. Nice science experiment and perfectly safe to do at home by the way.
The weight of the wool goes UP, as it burns ?
Why ?
In reply to Jim C:
Oxidisation?
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
> [...]
>
> The weight of the wool goes UP, as it burns ?
>
> Why ?
> [...]
>
> The weight of the wool goes UP, as it burns ?
>
> Why ?
Oxidisation?
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Plug ? why do you need a plug when you can just push the wires into the hole in the wall ?
Plug ? why do you need a plug when you can just push the wires into the hole in the wall ?
In reply to GrahamD:
And if you bend a paperclip to the right angle you can use it to hold the brown and blue wires in at the same time ;0)
And if you bend a paperclip to the right angle you can use it to hold the brown and blue wires in at the same time ;0)
In reply to Reach>Talent:
When I'm wiring a plug for Mrs Num Num's mother I normally connect the brown wire to the earth.
When I'm wiring a plug for Mrs Num Num's mother I normally connect the brown wire to the earth.
In reply to MJ:
Last fuse i replaced was a 600amp one, i prefer to stick to those, the old dryer cost a fortune in fuses until i did this.
(only part of this story is true)
Last fuse i replaced was a 600amp one, i prefer to stick to those, the old dryer cost a fortune in fuses until i did this.
(only part of this story is true)
In reply to leroybrown:
Information is not knowledge. ;O)
And knowledge is not skill. Ok, wiring a plug isn't exactly highly skilled, but even so. Some people are far more dangerous given a little bit of knowledge and a confidence boost than they were when they didn't have a scooby.
> Wake up world the information is at your fingertips!
Information is not knowledge. ;O)
And knowledge is not skill. Ok, wiring a plug isn't exactly highly skilled, but even so. Some people are far more dangerous given a little bit of knowledge and a confidence boost than they were when they didn't have a scooby.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Yes. Although I don't think I was taught how to, it was just very obvious what to do. Useful when you have to thread a cable through something smaller than the plug.
Yes. Although I don't think I was taught how to, it was just very obvious what to do. Useful when you have to thread a cable through something smaller than the plug.
In reply to Reach>Talent: A good trick for when you run out of fuses is the foil from a milk bottle top wrapped around the fuse. Works every time and these are actually better because they never fail like fuses do!!!
It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
(In reply to mkean) A good trick for when you run out of fuses is the foil from a milk bottle top wrapped around the fuse. Works every time and these are actually better because they never fail like fuses do!!!
It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
Please tell me you are taking the mickey! If you aren't I strongly suggest asking the electricity board to cut off your supply before you attract a Darwin Award.
(In reply to mkean) A good trick for when you run out of fuses is the foil from a milk bottle top wrapped around the fuse. Works every time and these are actually better because they never fail like fuses do!!!
It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
Please tell me you are taking the mickey! If you aren't I strongly suggest asking the electricity board to cut off your supply before you attract a Darwin Award.
In reply to GrahamD:
I did this with wire from my electrical kit when I was a kid. Attached the live and neutral to opposite ends of a slug, then hit the switch.
Cool.
My understanding is that modern RCD consumer units would stop this being as effective. Typical nanny state.
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> Plug ? why do you need a plug when you can just push the wires into the hole in the wall ?
>
> Plug ? why do you need a plug when you can just push the wires into the hole in the wall ?
I did this with wire from my electrical kit when I was a kid. Attached the live and neutral to opposite ends of a slug, then hit the switch.
Cool.
My understanding is that modern RCD consumer units would stop this being as effective. Typical nanny state.
In reply to Eric the Red:
Or rolled up kit kat wrappers do a good job too.
Don't do what a mate of mine did and try to light a fag, using the foil from a fag packet stuck in a 3 bar electric fire to get a flame.
Or rolled up kit kat wrappers do a good job too.
Don't do what a mate of mine did and try to light a fag, using the foil from a fag packet stuck in a 3 bar electric fire to get a flame.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
Quick and easy fix... (if this link works, it should do, it works with me logged out...)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1972613441938&set=o.2394579991&...
Quick and easy fix... (if this link works, it should do, it works with me logged out...)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1972613441938&set=o.2394579991&...
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Darwin award???
Are you sure you didn't mean a Dyson award??
> (In reply to Wonko The Sane)
> (In reply to Reach>Talent) A good trick for when you run out of fuses is the foil from a milk bottle top wrapped around the fuse. Works every time and these are actually better because they never fail like fuses do!!!
> It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
>
> Please tell me you are taking the mickey! If you aren't I strongly suggest asking the electricity board to cut off your supply before you attract a Darwin Award.
> (In reply to Reach>Talent) A good trick for when you run out of fuses is the foil from a milk bottle top wrapped around the fuse. Works every time and these are actually better because they never fail like fuses do!!!
> It amazes me that with all our technology we still can't make a decent fuse which doesn't blow all the time. Crap manufacture I reckon.
>
> Please tell me you are taking the mickey! If you aren't I strongly suggest asking the electricity board to cut off your supply before you attract a Darwin Award.
Darwin award???
Are you sure you didn't mean a Dyson award??
In reply to Nick B, Another One: Haha! brilliant.
In reply to MHutch:
You can just put tape on the reset switch to bypass RCDs. Simples.
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> [...]
>
>
> I did this with wire from my electrical kit when I was a kid. Attached the live and neutral to opposite ends of a slug, then hit the switch.
>
> Cool.
>
> My understanding is that modern RCD consumer units would stop this being as effective. Typical nanny state.
> [...]
>
>
> I did this with wire from my electrical kit when I was a kid. Attached the live and neutral to opposite ends of a slug, then hit the switch.
>
> Cool.
>
> My understanding is that modern RCD consumer units would stop this being as effective. Typical nanny state.
You can just put tape on the reset switch to bypass RCDs. Simples.
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
I really need to see if I can get hold of photos from my Dads "Safety audit hall of shame" some absolute classics in there including death trap wiring and a custom made adaptor for connecting a silane cylinder to an air line "because the connectors didn't fit".
;-(
I really need to see if I can get hold of photos from my Dads "Safety audit hall of shame" some absolute classics in there including death trap wiring and a custom made adaptor for connecting a silane cylinder to an air line "because the connectors didn't fit".
;-(
In reply to Reach>Talent:
We still taught it when I was last in a secondary school (7 years ago) but I'd be surprised if its not still taught.
What did surprise me was just how bad so many of the kids were at doing
it. I'd always considered it to be a very straightforward job which any idiot could do and was initially surprised it needed to be taught. One lesson shattered that illusion.
I'm amazed there aren't more house fires now.
>
> Is this simple domestic skill now redundant in the age of throwaway electrical goods and the moulded on plug? Does anyone know if it is still taught in science lessons at school? >
> Is this simple domestic skill now redundant in the age of throwaway electrical goods and the moulded on plug? Does anyone know if it is still taught in science lessons at school? >
We still taught it when I was last in a secondary school (7 years ago) but I'd be surprised if its not still taught.
What did surprise me was just how bad so many of the kids were at doing
it. I'd always considered it to be a very straightforward job which any idiot could do and was initially surprised it needed to be taught. One lesson shattered that illusion.
I'm amazed there aren't more house fires now.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
On the subject of dodgy electrical stuff...
I knew some squatters a long time ago who heated their front room with a wire coat hanger in a 13A outlet. One end shoved in live, and the other in neutral. It glowed red hot. I'm still astounded that anyone clever enough to think of it, was dumb enough to try it.
On the subject of dodgy electrical stuff...
I knew some squatters a long time ago who heated their front room with a wire coat hanger in a 13A outlet. One end shoved in live, and the other in neutral. It glowed red hot. I'm still astounded that anyone clever enough to think of it, was dumb enough to try it.
In reply to The Lemming:
It was a lot easier when it was red, black and green, why on earth (sic) did they change it?
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> Is it now brown,black or grey for live?
>
> I do get confused.
>
> Is it now brown,black or grey for live?
>
> I do get confused.
It was a lot easier when it was red, black and green, why on earth (sic) did they change it?
In reply to Al Evans: Wasn't it because the new colour scheme (brown, blue, green/yellow stripes) still worked when the person wiring it up was colourblind?
In reply to Al Evans:
Red / Green colour blindness is the most common form of colour perception deficiency. Whether that's the reason for the shift to green and yellow earth sleeving I'm not sure but it would make sense.
The change in mains wiring colours a few years ago from red live and black neutral to brown live and blue neutral was for European harmonisation.
> (In reply to The Lemming)
> [...]
>
> It was a lot easier when it was red, black and green, why on earth (sic) did they change it?
> [...]
>
> It was a lot easier when it was red, black and green, why on earth (sic) did they change it?
Red / Green colour blindness is the most common form of colour perception deficiency. Whether that's the reason for the shift to green and yellow earth sleeving I'm not sure but it would make sense.
The change in mains wiring colours a few years ago from red live and black neutral to brown live and blue neutral was for European harmonisation.
In reply to Al Evans:
Just out of interest, ignoring any "I already know it" arguments, what made the old system "easier'?
Just out of interest, ignoring any "I already know it" arguments, what made the old system "easier'?
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
REd for danger =live
Black obviously=negative
Green=Safety
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> Just out of interest, ignoring any "I already know it" arguments, what made the old system "easier'?
>
> Just out of interest, ignoring any "I already know it" arguments, what made the old system "easier'?
REd for danger =live
Black obviously=negative
Green=Safety
In reply to Al Evans: Really it ought to be:
Brown = Earth cos it's the colour of the earth
Red = Live cos it's ouch
Magnolia = Neutral cos it is.
Brown = Earth cos it's the colour of the earth
Red = Live cos it's ouch
Magnolia = Neutral cos it is.
In reply to Al Evans:
Fair enough, but I've never considered red and green a good idea for anything important due to the risks mentioned above. I've always worked with danger highlighted by black/yellow or in dark areas by fluorescent orange tape (although now I think about it I've seen red/white on some occasions).
Having earth as the only two-coloured option obviously makes it stand out that bit more.
I am less convinced when getting to three phase as when working in dimly lit backstage areas and someone is telling you to plug into the grey phase not the black one it's not particularly helpful and I find that under coloured lighting brown black and grey are easier to confuse than red yellow and blue.
Having a phase being the old neutral colour and vice versa has made me have to stop and think very carefully for example when some hired distro went wrong and we found it had been partly relabelled/rewired and whoever did it thought sticking a "This installation contains two versions...blah blah blah" sticker to it made it ok.
Fair enough, but I've never considered red and green a good idea for anything important due to the risks mentioned above. I've always worked with danger highlighted by black/yellow or in dark areas by fluorescent orange tape (although now I think about it I've seen red/white on some occasions).
Having earth as the only two-coloured option obviously makes it stand out that bit more.
I am less convinced when getting to three phase as when working in dimly lit backstage areas and someone is telling you to plug into the grey phase not the black one it's not particularly helpful and I find that under coloured lighting brown black and grey are easier to confuse than red yellow and blue.
Having a phase being the old neutral colour and vice versa has made me have to stop and think very carefully for example when some hired distro went wrong and we found it had been partly relabelled/rewired and whoever did it thought sticking a "This installation contains two versions...blah blah blah" sticker to it made it ok.
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
And yet my talents go unrecognised!
I'm off to help out at the LHC now, they've got lots of wires so I'm taking my pastel swatches.
> (In reply to Wonko The Sane)
>
> I'm off to rewire my house using your genius new scheme!
>
> I'm off to rewire my house using your genius new scheme!
And yet my talents go unrecognised!
I'm off to help out at the LHC now, they've got lots of wires so I'm taking my pastel swatches.
In reply to Al Evans:
Live = Brown --> Because you'll need new pants if you grab it
Live = Brown --> Because you'll need new pants if you grab it
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
Take your stopwatch too and sort out this faster-than-light nonsense too!
Take your stopwatch too and sort out this faster-than-light nonsense too!
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
Quite right too. Wouldn't want to let the magic smoke out of your dimmer racks now would you? ;O)
> Having a phase being the old neutral colour and vice versa has made me have to stop and think very carefully
Quite right too. Wouldn't want to let the magic smoke out of your dimmer racks now would you? ;O)
In reply to deepsoup:
True but given the right idiot anything is possible... Well before the change in colours (so even fewer excuses) I remember loud noises and black smoke pouring out of one particular rack. I don't recall the precise details but a rack that had just got back from the dimmer-fixing-place had been so "excitingly" (mis)wired that (and this was the conclusion drawn from in depth deconstruction and inspection of the kit in question) the truss had been live from the moment the power had been turned on and stayed that way until the rack's incoming neutral conductor (that was connected to the supply earth) burnt out, less than 10 seconds in total but unbelievably lucky no-one was working on said truss at the time.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of even the most well-qualified idiot. And always test stuff you don't know inside out before plugging it up!
> (In reply to Nick B, Another One)
> [...]
>
> Quite right too. Wouldn't want to let the magic smoke out of your dimmer racks now would you? ;O)
> [...]
>
> Quite right too. Wouldn't want to let the magic smoke out of your dimmer racks now would you? ;O)
True but given the right idiot anything is possible... Well before the change in colours (so even fewer excuses) I remember loud noises and black smoke pouring out of one particular rack. I don't recall the precise details but a rack that had just got back from the dimmer-fixing-place had been so "excitingly" (mis)wired that (and this was the conclusion drawn from in depth deconstruction and inspection of the kit in question) the truss had been live from the moment the power had been turned on and stayed that way until the rack's incoming neutral conductor (that was connected to the supply earth) burnt out, less than 10 seconds in total but unbelievably lucky no-one was working on said truss at the time.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of even the most well-qualified idiot. And always test stuff you don't know inside out before plugging it up!
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
My Dad had a minor misfortune with some stage lighting that some chump had mis-wired with the casing live, must have hurt a fair bit as I got a massive jolt off it and I was just footing the ladder! Thankfully no lasting damage although having a 16 stone man + toolkit landing on you from a good height isn't funny.
My Dad had a minor misfortune with some stage lighting that some chump had mis-wired with the casing live, must have hurt a fair bit as I got a massive jolt off it and I was just footing the ladder! Thankfully no lasting damage although having a 16 stone man + toolkit landing on you from a good height isn't funny.
In reply to Nick B, Another One:
Can't argue with that.
The consequences of letting idiots loose actually inside your racks, or 'tail in' to and old-school bus bar chamber haven't changed.
As far as just plugging stuff in goes, I'm sure the change in colours would have caused a lot more carnage if camlocks weren't already on the way out by then. It takes a really determined idiot to plug a 'L2' powerlock into neutral or vice versa. Note: I'm definitely *not* saying it can't be done! ;O)
Which reminds me - possibly another argument to ditch red live/black neutral over here: black was already used as 'live' quite widely around the world. So imported american appliances, for example, would have had black = live, white = neutral, green = earth.
You still do see American three phase colours (and camlocks) on back-stagey type stuff. (black/red/blue phases, white neutral, green earth.)
> True but given the right idiot anything is possible...
Can't argue with that.
The consequences of letting idiots loose actually inside your racks, or 'tail in' to and old-school bus bar chamber haven't changed.
As far as just plugging stuff in goes, I'm sure the change in colours would have caused a lot more carnage if camlocks weren't already on the way out by then. It takes a really determined idiot to plug a 'L2' powerlock into neutral or vice versa. Note: I'm definitely *not* saying it can't be done! ;O)
Which reminds me - possibly another argument to ditch red live/black neutral over here: black was already used as 'live' quite widely around the world. So imported american appliances, for example, would have had black = live, white = neutral, green = earth.
You still do see American three phase colours (and camlocks) on back-stagey type stuff. (black/red/blue phases, white neutral, green earth.)
In reply to deepsoup:
If you really want to you can get anything to fit! An "experienced local crew-chief" we were supplied with managed to get a Speakon plug into a Powercon outlet, again exciting outcomes were achieved despite Neutrik's claims that even if you somehow got the one into the other the contacts are arranged in such a way as to not cause such interesting results!
I really must hasten to add at this point that I work with far safer people these days! But the Dodgy Technicians group on Facebook is a great way to reminisce about past experiences, although as with UKC you do need to ignore the constant bickering!
> As far as just plugging stuff in goes, I'm sure the change in colours would have caused a lot more carnage if camlocks weren't already on the way out by then. It takes a really determined idiot to plug a 'L2' powerlock into neutral or vice versa. Note: I'm definitely *not* saying it can't be done! ;O)
If you really want to you can get anything to fit! An "experienced local crew-chief" we were supplied with managed to get a Speakon plug into a Powercon outlet, again exciting outcomes were achieved despite Neutrik's claims that even if you somehow got the one into the other the contacts are arranged in such a way as to not cause such interesting results!
I really must hasten to add at this point that I work with far safer people these days! But the Dodgy Technicians group on Facebook is a great way to reminisce about past experiences, although as with UKC you do need to ignore the constant bickering!
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I seem to remember having to write an English essay at age 11 or 12 on wiring a plug - it was assumed everyone knew how to do it but they wanted to test us on how well we could write instructions.
Science at that age was about how many lamps you could blow by connecting them across too many batteries and, unofficially of course, tricks with carbon rods and wire wool that got me a beating
I seem to remember having to write an English essay at age 11 or 12 on wiring a plug - it was assumed everyone knew how to do it but they wanted to test us on how well we could write instructions.
Science at that age was about how many lamps you could blow by connecting them across too many batteries and, unofficially of course, tricks with carbon rods and wire wool that got me a beating
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I'd be inclined to agree. I've rewired two kitchens, and changed the consumer unit on my current house, but I can't remember the last time I wired a plug.
> Can you wire a plug? (BS1363 compliant mains plug for fans of pedantry)
>
> I was talking to a colleague recently who didn't know how to do one or see the point in learning as "everything has a plug on it already".
>
> I was talking to a colleague recently who didn't know how to do one or see the point in learning as "everything has a plug on it already".
I'd be inclined to agree. I've rewired two kitchens, and changed the consumer unit on my current house, but I can't remember the last time I wired a plug.
In reply to Reach>Talent: One of my first projects at uni was to backward engineer a humble plug. Every component was eventually sliced and diced, polished and looked at to discover the manufacture techniques. FAR more interesting than it sounds.
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